Germany’s return is going well....

[Van wink 2,994]

4 minutes ago, Indy said:

Again anything in higher dose could be more dangerous, but the reality is three months was always going to be the target to get going again, no country can afford to go another three months as the economy has already hit 14% decline or more in most countries.

Still the real facts are the you’re very very unlikely to die of just Covid unless you’re well into your 80’s. Most footballers are not obese, have too many health critical conditions and if they don’t want to participate, then they should be allowed not to play.

As for the rest of us, we now have some measure of the virus, the NHS have more capacity for any spike in certain areas and testing is still ramping up. If up you’re not comfortable in going back out or are at higher risk then carry on isolating once we lift it.

Have you actually read the article?

[Bill 1,788]

17 minutes ago, Well b back said:

A 6 week old baby died yesterday.

What you are not getting is our carers still can’t get tests ( nor residents ) whilst footballers will have an unlimited supply. At this moment in time I would suggest carers ( I guess there are plenty that smoke, drink and don’t exercise enough ) are far more worthy of tests at the moment than footballers. Hospitals are still complaining of a lack of PPE whilst football, no problem. Again I would say nurses are far more worthy of being given this than footballers.

By all means finish this season, but when it is safe and appropriate to do so. This is simply about money, not just this seasons but next seasons as well. If this and or the Bundesliga goes wrong there will be no next season. 

The lack of tests is down to government incompetence - and a misuse of many that have been directed to up the figures rather than target the tests towards greatest and most effective need

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-testing-labs-london-boris-johnson-a9501806.html

Whingeing about footballers is absurd as we are at least six weeks away from playing any games. Much will happen between then and now.

 

ps the word 'rise' means spike, as the number of deaths don't rise..... they err, ..........................spike

(hooray for newspeak)

[Van wink 2,994]

Whinging about footballers and staff being tested regularly when the tests will be needed for front line staff and in the community may seem absurd to you Bill but to most of us it’s pretty sick. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Van wink

[Bill 1,788]

8 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Whinging about footballers and staff being tested regularly when the tests will be needed for front line staff and in the community may seem absurd to you Bill but to most of us it’s pretty sick. 

whereas the shortage we currently now is not sick

and there is no evidence that tests used by football will be taken from the limited stock we have at the moment

 

if you are going to post hand crank, then at least post based on fact - not your bigoted wish to defend 'your betters'

[T 190]

44 minutes ago, Well b back said:

A 6 week old baby died yesterday.

What you are not getting is our carers still can’t get tests ( nor residents ) whilst footballers will have an unlimited supply. At this moment in time I would suggest carers ( I guess there are plenty that smoke, drink and don’t exercise enough ) are far more worthy of tests at the moment than footballers. Hospitals are still complaining of a lack of PPE whilst football, no problem. Again I would say nurses are far more worthy of being given this than footballers.

By all means finish this season, but when it is safe and appropriate to do so. This is simply about money, not just this seasons but next seasons as well. If this and or the Bundesliga goes wrong there will be no next season. 

You think I haven’t and don’t understand death? Sorry but the implied suggestion is somewhat insulting and offensive. I have as no doubt most have experienced death of family friends and colleagues some tragic. All very unpleasant and particularly the tragic cases. People die all the time around the world some young and tragically. And many on here are quite happy for refugee children to die which I have always strongly objected to. 

Also you have not clearly not read what I’ve written because I’ve agreed with you and explicit said that I I disagree with the resumption of football in the UK for the reasons stated   Neither have I expressed a position on the situation in Germany. I’m not a governor and it is not my decision. I’ve merely explained the position as locally reported and commented on the risks aspects

ive happily complied with and supported restrictions at all times despite the negative effects and my relatively low risk because I invest it being fit and healthy because I am concerned about other people as I’ve always argued on this forum unlike others. 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

14 hours ago, T said:

Sorry Purple but you are getting hung up on trying to be pendantic becasue you are so stubborn you can never admit to be being wrong and missing the big picture. .

I've never suggested that getting a higher dose isnt more risky becasue I've always understood that it is a risk factor.

Really T? If you’d always known this, that players, precisely because they were so fit, were actually more likely than ordinary people to get the virus damagingly deep into their lungs, then why didn’t you mention it as a counter-argument in your rosy-eyed view of why it was medically fine for the Bundesliga to restart, not least because, according to you, players were less at risk than mere mortals precisely because they were so fit?

If you’d always known this why didn’t you freely say so when I posted that expert study that detailed this potential problem? Instead you ignored the point and waffled on irrelevantly about testing, I am happy to leave it there. Other posters may decide who is refusing to admit they were wrong.

[Van wink 2,994]

19 minutes ago, Bill said:

whereas the shortage we currently now is not sick

and there is no evidence that tests used by football will be taken from the limited stock we have at the moment

 

if you are going to post hand crank, then at least post based on fact - not your bigoted wish to defend 'your betters'

Where will they come from Bill?

[T 190]

Im also entirely happy to leave it there but I’m used to having to explaining things to people who find concepts difficult to grasp. 
 

I ve accepted and agreed with your individual risk factor and explained that you have to look at the overall risk m because it is mitigated  by the low risk of getting it in the first place in a controlled environment and the low risk that a fit and heathy person not recovering.
 

Driving a racing car is inherently dangerous but you put design and safety measures in place to mitgäbe the risk so that the overall risk is deemed acceptable. That is exactly what football are other sports are doing and we are doing in society so far example you can go to the gym in some states in German but numbers are limited by booking times on line. there are no lockers rooms, shower or sauna and you have deep your distance and clean equipment after use. So exactly the same there is an increased risk but you reduce the overall risk by taking actions to mitigate those risks

  I would have thought that is obvious to everyone and I admit didn’t realise it needed explicitly explaining to everyone. I’m looking at the wood while some keep banging their head against one particular tree. I’ve tried to explain it as simply as I can but of course people are at liberty to continue banging their head on one particular point if they so wish. 

[Indy 3,283]

58 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Have you actually read the article?

Yes I did VW, unsavoury as Kalou was behaving, some individuals are undefendable, but my overall views stand. 
At the end of the day lockdown will finish and football like every other industry will do the same, so all my comments are for the general focus, all this forum has is opinions, most are based on each persons bias, you can see that, from those at risk who want a lockdown till a vaccine is found regardless of other major issues, to those just anti Boris, regardless of anything just full on focus to criticise.

I can say I bet there will be a spike in new cases in the uk at some point next week, as so many communities and streets all come out to celebrate, yes most kept their social distance but I saw a big group of people put drinks on a table and one by one they took turn to pour, trouble was each were handling the same bottles, without thinking! Once people start to have less restrictions thing which are normal people do without thinking, footballers will do the same, fist bumps, celebrations, it’s going to be hard for them not to!

I don’t think any of the proposals are good at this time, for two pence worth is to kill this season, the same teams all start next season, giving time for football to come up with a set of thought out plans for next season.

[Daz Sparks 1,150]

24 minutes ago, Bill said:

and there is no evidence that tests used by football will be taken from the limited stock we have at the moment

Then maybe Football should donate any tests they can obtain to frontline medical staff and carers?

[Bill 1,788]

2 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Where will they come from Bill?

you tell us, you are the one telling us they will come from the same source as "when the tests will be needed for front line staff and in the community"

which suggests there are no other sources now, or will be in six weeks time

though it does not explain how other countries have bee able to source these tests in far greater numbers, if there is only that one source

 

ps try think you guff through first 😜

[Bill 1,788]

1 minute ago, Daz Sparks said:

Then maybe Football should donate any tests they can obtain to frontline medical staff and carers?

oh dear it just gets worse

if they are able to source these test (as are numerous other countries) then why not the UK government

 

ps see advice given to hand crank, above 😜

[Daz Sparks 1,150]

 

8 minutes ago, Bill said:

oh dear it just gets worse

if they are able to source these test (as are numerous other countries) then why not the UK government

 

ps see advice given to hand crank, above 😜

Don't patronise me, there's a good little fella.

And for the record, I don't give a flying f**k where the tests come from, or who gets them, just get them to frontline medical staff and carers.

The real point is they (nurses, doctors and carers) have an elevated risk of contracting the illness and even death. 

Footballs need is at best secondary, or irrelevant.

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Daz Sparks

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

Yes I did VW, unsavoury as Kalou was behaving, some individuals are undefendable, but my overall views stand. 
At the end of the day lockdown will finish and football like every other industry will do the same, so all my comments are for the general focus, all this forum has is opinions, most are based on each persons bias, you can see that, from those at risk who want a lockdown till a vaccine is found regardless of other major issues, to those just anti Boris, regardless of anything just full on focus to criticise.

I can say I bet there will be a spike in new cases in the uk at some point next week, as so many communities and streets all come out to celebrate, yes most kept their social distance but I saw a big group of people put drinks on a table and one by one they took turn to pour, trouble was each were handling the same bottles, without thinking! Once people start to have less restrictions thing which are normal people do without thinking, footballers will do the same, fist bumps, celebrations, it’s going to be hard for them not to!

I don’t think any of the proposals are good at this time, for two pence worth is to kill this season, the same teams all start next season, giving time for football to come up with a set of thought out plans for next season.

Indy, not sure but you and VW may be at cross-purposes. I think he is referring to a study I posted by Italian and German experts which indicates professional footballers, precisely because they indulge in heady-duty exercise, may get the virus deeper into the lungs, and so more potentially more damagingly, than ordinary people. That the super-fitness of players may well count against them.

Edited May 9, 2020 by PurpleCanary

[Bill 1,788]

2 minutes ago, Daz Sparks said:

 

Don't patronise me, there's a good little fella.

And for the record, I don't give a flying f**k where the tests come from, or who gets them, just get them to frontline medical staff and carer.

The real point is they (nurses, doctors and carers) have an elevated risk of contracting the illness and even death. 

Footballs need is at best secondary, or irrelevant.

 

so, you posted up some ill thought out guff

you fall back on to the claimed moral high ground when it is shown to be that

 

and yes it does matter where the tests are coming from when you are trying to misrepresent by stating that any tests football acquires are taken from UK medical supplies - which you have absolutely NO evidence of

and the question still holds - if football can so easily source these tests then why can't the UK government

 

[T 190]

I’ve seen woodpeckers give one particular tree less of a head pounding. 

[Barbe bleu 814]

My take on this is heavily influenced by the study above (though it's not clear if it has been repeated)

But for the study I would say, If Germany doesn't restart now when do they? No country had eliminated this thing entirely and there is no evidence that 3 months, 6 months,  a year of lockdown will achieve it.

At some point we'll all have to emerge and hope that a combination of immunity from prior exposure, TTI and individual measures will hold back the tide until the vaccine arrives.  Football is no different to any other business and some infection has to be expected

It seems that the one good reason for not getting back up and running is the possible extra risk to anyone involved in high level contact sport. Someone needs to repeat the study.

[Fuzzar 1,702]

11 minutes ago, T said:

I’ve seen woodpeckers give one particular tree less of a head pounding. 

I believe they use their beaks. 

[Mello Yello 2,280]

1 minute ago, Fuzzar said:

I believe they use their beaks. 

Beaks?.....'T' will be the 'judge' of that......

[Rivvo 257]

Mmm the jury’s still out for me, you seem to lack conviction.

[T 190]

26 minutes ago, Fuzzar said:

I believe they use their beaks. 

That could be another very pedantic debate   I could argue for a very long time that they use they head to bang their beak against the tree. 😉 Had one just outside my kitchen window once. Amazing to watch  what ever you argue. 
 

Besides some troublemakers should be banned from starting threads ! 

Edited May 9, 2020 by T

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

33 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

My take on this is heavily influenced by the study above (though it's not clear if it has been repeated)

But for the study I would say, If Germany doesn't restart now when do they? No country had eliminated this thing entirely and there is no evidence that 3 months, 6 months,  a year of lockdown will achieve it.

At some point we'll all have to emerge and hope that a combination of immunity from prior exposure, TTI and individual measures will hold back the tide until the vaccine arrives.  Football is no different to any other business and some infection has to be expected

It seems that the one good reason for not getting back up and running is the possible extra risk to anyone involved in high level contact sport. Someone needs to repeat the study.

BB, I agree that a repeat study is needed but also what I haven't seen from that study as reported is how much extra permanent damage, if any, to the lungs this deep-seated infection that players risk will cause. It may be it just makes it harder to eradicate the virus but with no more damage than that to an ordinary person who has a less deep-seated infection.

But if the implication/likelihood/probability is that this will cause greater permanent damage, such as to end a player's career, not to mention causing heath problems later in life, then it is hard to see how football can restart until a vaccine is developed. Players who could afford not to take the risk would not take it, and even some of those who couldn't afford it wouldn't.

[Indy 3,283]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

Indy, not sure but you and VW may be at cross-purposes. I think he is referring to a study I posted by Italian and German experts which indicates professional footballers, precisely because they indulge in heady-duty exercise, may get the virus deeper into the lungs, and so more potentially more damagingly, than ordinary people. That the super-fitness of players may well count against them.

Sorry, yes I didn’t read that, but have seen similar info in the press. That’s why I believe it should all be chopped across the board till next season. Give time for the virus to settle, better treatments, some form of control and then start again.

If you want football to return before this date with all the stupid changes they keep talking about it’s really up to each footballer, staff and support personnel to make a choice, they shouldn’t be pressured into it.

[T 190]

Well some players have tested positive and no doubt closely monitored and no concerns reported so far. It is always a risk and could well remain so. It does depend on your attitude to risk. In the meantime I have and will continue to work out hard in public because from what I’ve read the risk of becoming fat and unhealthy is significantly higher. 

[Daz Sparks 1,150]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

so, you posted up some ill thought out guff

you fall back on to the claimed moral high ground when it is shown to be that

 

and yes it does matter where the tests are coming from when you are trying to misrepresent by stating that any tests football acquires are taken from UK medical supplies - which you have absolutely NO evidence of

and the question still holds - if football can so easily source these tests then why can't the UK government

 

Right ho

[T 190]

If people are so concerned about the health of healthy dir young individuals perhaps they could explain what should be done with and about the majority of the UK who are fat and there is a definite known proven risk. 

[Daz Sparks 1,150]

 

1 hour ago, Bill said:

so, you posted up some ill thought out guff

you fall back on to the claimed moral high ground when it is shown to be that

 

and yes it does matter where the tests are coming from when you are trying to misrepresent by stating that any tests football acquires are taken from UK medical supplies - which you have absolutely NO evidence of

and the question still holds - if football can so easily source these tests then why can't the UK government

 

Let me break down your post.

1. so, you posted up some ill thought out guff Your opinion, no more, which on this forum amounts to buttons.

2. you fall back on to the claimed moral high ground when it is shown to be that I have fallen back on no moral high ground

3. and yes it does matter where the tests are coming I still don't care where the tests come from. 

4. you are trying to misrepresent by stating that any tests football acquires are taken from UK medical supplies Of course the tests don't come from UK medical supplies, I did not state otherwise.

5. and the question still holds - if football can so easily source these tests then why can't the UK government I still don't care where the tests come from, they would be better used testing frontline medical staff. Argue all you like against me or anyone else, you know this true.

Football = Unimportant

Doctors, Nurses and Carers = Vital

Please stop patronising me little man.

[pete 318]

Lost the will to live reading this chain of posts but would like to bring attention to the post named Junior Samba a fit, footballer who is seriously ill after contracting Covid 19. 

[Van wink 2,994]

2 hours ago, Bill said:

you tell us, you are the one telling us they will come from the same source as "when the tests will be needed for front line staff and in the community"

which suggests there are no other sources now, or will be in six weeks time

though it does not explain how other countries have bee able to source these tests in far greater numbers, if there is only that one source

 

ps try think you guff through first 😜

So you have no idea where tests will come from yet you insist football matches will be resuming. Its not just resumption of games of course but a massive testing program during training. Your abuse of fellow posters doesnt disguise the fact that you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Van wink

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

Sorry, yes I didn’t read that, but have seen similar info in the press. That’s why I believe it should all be chopped across the board till next season. Give time for the virus to settle, better treatments, some form of control and then start again.

If you want football to return before this date with all the stupid changes they keep talking about it’s really up to each footballer, staff and support personnel to make a choice, they shouldn’t be pressured into it.

Yep  agree Indy, its another reason why football shouldn't begin, along with all the others. We need some clarity on the health implications, as said many times before, its a novel virus and we would be very ill-advised to take liberties with it until we know a lot more about its clinical effects on a wide range of people, and potential long term effects.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Van wink