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pete

Allies against relegation

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52517532

Brighton one of the first clubs to rail against neutral grounds.  However it seems it is an acceptable option provided there will be no relegation as playing at neutral grounds unfairly affects results i.e. no home bias as all away.  And it is felt relegation coupled with behind closed doors in Championship would radically affect clubs financial viability.

See the article above.

I rather agree with such a proposal however may mean Leeds promoted but would ensure we can meet £35m loss.  But feel it is less likely Profact Start is a no go and the season will not be completed this side of Aug/Sept and EFL will similarly fail.

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42 minutes ago, pete said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52517532

Brighton one of the first clubs to rail against neutral grounds.  However it seems it is an acceptable option provided there will be no relegation as playing at neutral grounds unfairly affects results i.e. no home bias as all away.  And it is felt relegation coupled with behind closed doors in Championship would radically affect clubs financial viability.

See the article above.

I rather agree with such a proposal however may mean Leeds promoted but would ensure we can meet £35m loss.  But feel it is less likely Profact Start is a no go and the season will not be completed this side of Aug/Sept and EFL will similarly fail.

So basically what you're saying is if NCFC doesn't get relegated then you are happy with a restart? Seems to go against all your other posts on the subject. The issue with the proposed restart is nothing to do with the outcome from a football perspective, it's the problems it could cause, totally undermining everything anyone has ever done or sacrificed to beat this dreadful virus. Nearly 630 died yesterday, it's just not appropriate yet in my view in any format. Kids need to be back to school and people allowed back to work first.

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Posted (edited)

Seems highly likely the government will give this ridiculous restart the go ahead as part of a morale boosting start to the road to recovery... If and when they sign this off we as a club need to stand our ground and fight our corner on this. The dynamics of the season have completely changed for 1/4 of it. It’s simply not the same season and same rules. All home advantage lost against rivals that had 10s thousands in their home fixtures. 5 subs which massively favours the bigger clubs who can change half of their outfield players, potentially worth £300 million to change the direction of a match. No way should any teams be relegated in these circumstances 

Edited by JF

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Posted (edited)

The problem here is...Brighton who are out of the relegation zone know, that if they protest against this and the season doesnt re-restart, either of the two decisions the premier league then make...void or ppg , will see Brighton safe.

  For us ,if refusing to play in these conditions...one of those two ,will see us relegated.

Playing ...in whatever conditions...maybe our only chance of staying up 

Edited by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

The problem here is...Brighton who are out of the relegation zone know, that if they protest against this and the season doesnt re-restart, either of the two decisions the premier then make...void or ppg , will see Brighton safe.

  For us ,if refusing to play in these conditions...one of those two ,will see us relegated.

Playing ...in whatever conditions...maybe our only chance of staying up 

Ppg relegation won’t work or happen in the PL as the PL end EFL are separately run. The relegated 3 teams would take the PL the cleaners. In France league 1 and 2 are the same authority 

Edited by JF

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1 minute ago, JF said:

Ppg relegation won’t work or happen in the PL as the PL end EFL are separately run. The relegated 3 teams would take the PL the cleaners 

I wish I shared your optimism on that

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Just now, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

I wish I shared your optimism on that

I see no way that the PL will relegate 3 of its members that all own an equal share who haven’t been mathematically relegated to promote 3 teams they currently have no connection to that haven’t been mathematically promoted. All 3 relegated clubs would take it to the courts 

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6 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

The problem here is...Brighton who are out of the relegation zone know, that if they protest against this and the season doesnt re-restart, either of the two decisions the premier then make...void or ppg , will see Brighton safe.

  For us ,if refusing to play in these conditions...one of those two ,will see us relegated.

Playing ...in whatever conditions...maybe our only chance of staying up 

I don’t think this about staying up it’s about ethics and saving lives. Do you agree that the growing number of players coming out to say they are scared alone should see an end to this farce ? Doctors, nurses and carers have to pay in some instances for their own PPE yet the PL and their teams will use thousands of items. To me, as much as I love football, doctors, nurses and carers are far more  deserving of these items than any football club. 
To me if we are relegated and football is not played until it’s safe that’s fine, if a life is lost or a players career is destroyed no amount of money is justifiable. 

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1 minute ago, Well b back said:

I don’t think this about staying up it’s about ethics and saving lives. Do you agree that the growing number of players coming out to say they are scared alone should see an end to this farce ? Doctors, nurses and carers have to pay in some instances for their own PPE yet the PL and their teams will use thousands of items. To me, as much as I love football, doctors, nurses and carers are far more  deserving of these items than any football club. 
To me if we are relegated and football is not played until it’s safe that’s fine, if a life is lost or a players career is destroyed no amount of money is justifiable. 

Ultimately a premier league will re-start in some guise at some point with 20 (or 22 or 23?) teams in it.

As catastrophic as the global situation is...it doesnt mean that our football club should come out on the wrong end of it.

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2 minutes ago, Well b back said:

I don’t think this about staying up it’s about ethics and saving lives. Do you agree that the growing number of players coming out to say they are scared alone should see an end to this farce ? Doctors, nurses and carers have to pay in some instances for their own PPE yet the PL and their teams will use thousands of items. To me, as much as I love football, doctors, nurses and carers are far more  deserving of these items than any football club. 
To me if we are relegated and football is not played until it’s safe that’s fine, if a life is lost or a players career is destroyed no amount of money is justifiable. 

You may be correct but unfortunately as soon as the government allows this to happen, and they likely will, the club will be obliged to fulfil it’s fixtures 

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We are going into totally uncharted territory and the only thing we can learn from Europe is that they all seem to be doing things differently. Germany seem keen to start again, but several top players there have very recently tested positive so not sure where that leaves things. The French have scrapped their season and sorted placings on average points and decided to relegate clubs. Scotland seem in a right old muddle with legal challenges to their initial decisions and calls of foul play whilst the Dutch have scrapped their season and decided on no relegation. I am sure that with a PM who nearly died of the virus there will be no way that the UK Government will allow  football re start behind closed doors when it is not safe to do so. Sky and the PL will have to think outside the box as i cannot see any way that it is safe to resume play anytime quickly, the ramifications both moral and legal for a resumption and players or their  families catching the virus will be enormous. If the season is scrapped the issue of places and in particular relegation slots needs to be resolved. The EFL are desperate for money all the way down the divisions with no liklehood of fans watching for 12 to 18 months. No relegation from the PL could allow the Parachute money for the 3  clubs that would have been relegated being given to the EFL to help with their survival. We will just have to see but life and health are above an unseemly scramble for TV money and the mood in the country is not supportive of a resumption of football anytime quick and that is starting to be reflected by comments from key stakeholders in football

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15 minutes ago, JF said:

Ppg relegation won’t work or happen in the PL as the PL end EFL are separately run. The relegated 3 teams would take the PL the cleaners. In France league 1 and 2 are the same authority 

France supposedly has a rule that says they take the current positions if the season is curtailed. Not seen it myself but have seen quotes to that effect. 

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1 minute ago, JF said:

You may be correct but unfortunately as soon as the government allows this to happen, and they likely will, the club will be obliged to fulfil it’s fixtures 

Don’t disagree but football will leave a horrible taste in people’s mouths for years to come. The government will cost themselves huge problems, with other industries saying what’s good for one is good for another. According to a poll in the Telegraph 84% of people say football should not restart.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Don’t disagree but football will leave a horrible taste in people’s mouths for years to come. The government will cost themselves huge problems, with other industries saying what’s good for one is good for another. According to a poll in the Telegraph 84% of people say football should not restart.

I agree. But it’s being driven by money and the need to make a statement by the government that things are getting back to normal. 

Edited by JF

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I don't know why people are banging on about relegation. We were bottom anyway and if they end and say we are down then so be it. Its about playing football under these circumstances that is so reckless and possibly fatal. Why risk any one person's health or life to appease the greedy devils at the EPL?

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2 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I don't know why people are banging on about relegation. We were bottom anyway and if they end and say we are down then so be it. Its about playing football under these circumstances that is so reckless and possibly fatal. Why risk any one person's health or life to appease the greedy devils at the EPL?

Quite clearly because there are seemingly no rules in place for this eventuality..if there were presumably the Premier League would have stated that position by now?

If it comes down to 2 options of null and void or points per game (with a quarter of a seasons worth or fixtutes left)...I would hope we would have people fighting our cause a lot more vigourously than than your meek stance

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17 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I don't know why people are banging on about relegation. We were bottom anyway and if they end and say we are down then so be it. Its about playing football under these circumstances that is so reckless and possibly fatal. Why risk any one person's health or life to appease the greedy devils at the EPL?

I agree it’s about lives and of course we all know we are bottom but if we end up being relegated at the end of a curtailed season due to some contrived outcome or ridiculous end to the season where villa get to play Palace U23s then I hope we break the habit of a lifetime and kick up an almighty fuss. 
 

the fact that there are more important things in life does not mean we should accept being sh*fted. Frankly it could be the difference between us having a team to support or not having one in 18 months time. 

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Other countries are coming out of lockdown, the number of available tests is growing quickly, other major leagues in Italy and Germany may be restarting and the government will want to show "Britain can take it", so they will almost certainly try to restart.

The current sentiment not to restart may well change in the next 30 days, it's May 03, no way they can restart before June 01 as the players have to get some level of fitness again, many are out of the country as well and have to return, get families settled etc.  

However when they do restart, it's only fair to say he level of competition will be nowhere near that of the season when postponed, it will in effect be a glorified 5 a side competition. And as such it should only be accepted as being completed for "the sake of morale" and more importantly, for the sake of money.

No way any of the bottom 8 teams should agree to this unless relegation is off the table. They effectively have a veto of the terms of completing the season even if they need the money as much, or more, than the biggest teams. 

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12 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I agree it’s about lives and of course we all know we are bottom but if we end up being relegated at the end of a curtailed season due to some contrived outcome or ridiculous end to the season where villa get to play Palace U23s then I hope we break the habit of a lifetime and kick up an almighty fuss. 
 

the fact that there are more important things in life does not mean we should accept being sh*fted. Frankly it could be the difference between us having a team to support or not having one in 18 months time. 

Totally agree. Whether it be on the pitch or in the courts NCFC face an almighty battle to stay in the EPL. Would be ironic if we end up paying more in legal fees than we did on players in our fight for survival.

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I should perhaps own up and say I hate the Premier League, however good it is for our club. 

I think the EPL knows only to well that they can't relegate anyone on a change of rules without suffering a successful legal challenge. So we definitely won't be relegated. 

All they are trying to do is preserve some TV money which is baffling to me. Who wants to watch Norwich play Burnley behind closed doors if the result is irrelevant? A bit like watching a pre season friendly against Toulouse. 

Stop panicking about relegation. The EPL is all about self preservation and it won't happen. 

What might happen is that a player catches the virus and never plays again. 

That, and all the other obvious reasons is why this shouldn't be allowed to happen. But people voted for Johnson and in circumstances like this you get what you voted for 

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2 hours ago, Well b back said:

Really. 
No life is worth any amount of money. 

Really?  That's a nice sentiment, but in actuality that's all it is, unless of course you give ALL of your own money above and beyond your basic living expenses to charities and foreign aid?

I'd like to point out that I'm all for foreign aid, a properly funded NHS, and am economically left leaning, but please stop the hand-wringing and clutching of pearls.  It's annoying.

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2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Football is immoral at that level.

Football is immoral full stop.

Cheating is prevalent at all levels, as in most sport, especially at a professional level. This is just another example of its immorality. If I were to think about it, most factors of our lives are immoral - why should we expect football to be different?

All we can do as individuals is to do our best in our own actions, but if we were to react to every immorality we encounter in life, we wouldn't even have breakfast and get dressed!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Well b back said:

Don’t disagree but football will leave a horrible taste in people’s mouths

I once left a horrible taste in the wife’s mouth...

 

 

 

 

 

 she hasn’t let me cook anything since 😁

Edited by FenwayFrank
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If it comes down to 2 options of null and void or points per game (with a quarter of a seasons worth or fixtutes left)...I would hope we would have people fighting our cause a lot more vigourously than than your meek stance

It isn't meek at all. There is only one option. Null and void. If any other option is chosen it would be totally immoral. OK, if they wait until we are vaccinated and play the remaining games which is better morally but would be ridiculous to keep messing up seasons.

Strength would be to say no to their proposals not pander to them.

 

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What the hell is the point of finishing the season on the basis that relegation is not applicable? Why would the teams near the bottom want to play games in the current climate for nothing, and also Liverpool already have the title wrapped up.

It seems every single day at the moment brings another ridiculous suggestion for completing the season when the reality is it just needs to be voided. 

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5 minutes ago, alex_ncfc said:

What the hell is the point of finishing the season on the basis that relegation is not applicable? Why would the teams near the bottom want to play games in the current climate for nothing, and also Liverpool already have the title wrapped up.

It seems every single day at the moment brings another ridiculous suggestion for completing the season when the reality is it just needs to be voided. 

💶💶💶💶💶

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Why? 💰 and lots of it. Like it or not, it is what drives our western values economies for now.

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3 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I should perhaps own up and say I hate the Premier League, however good it is for our club. 

I think the EPL knows only to well that they can't relegate anyone on a change of rules without suffering a successful legal challenge. So we definitely won't be relegated. 

All they are trying to do is preserve some TV money which is baffling to me. Who wants to watch Norwich play Burnley behind closed doors if the result is irrelevant? A bit like watching a pre season friendly against Toulouse. 

Stop panicking about relegation. The EPL is all about self preservation and it won't happen. 

What might happen is that a player catches the virus and never plays again. 

That, and all the other obvious reasons is why this shouldn't be allowed to happen. But people voted for Johnson and in circumstances like this you get what you voted for 

If it is safe to play, I will watch all of the games, irrelevant as to whether they are relevant or not! The following season will be starting soon after and it’s a good chance for the managerial team to see what areas need improving and (hopefully) gain momentum!

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