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9th June d Day for PL

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52 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

You cannot relegate teams of the basis of an incomplete season (certainly when not mathematically down anyway) and you cannot promote teams from the EFL without them completing their season either. Both or either would be manifestly unfair.

Of course they can. The EFL is just a company with 20 members - if 14 of them vote to do something, it's done. Fairness has got nothing to do with it. What they have to decide amongst themselves is what any repercussions might be - specifically the possibility of legal action, So, if they relegate Norwich and only promote Leeds and sweeten the pill by giving £50m each to us and West Brom and another £50m to the teams from 3rd to 10th in the Champs to share, would that be fairer?

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Of course they can. The EFL is just a company with 20 members - if 14 of them vote to do something, it's done. Fairness has got nothing to do with it. What they have to decide amongst themselves is what any repercussions might be - specifically the possibility of legal action, So, if they relegate Norwich and only promote Leeds and sweeten the pill by giving £50m each to us and West Brom and another £50m to the teams from 3rd to 10th in the Champs to share, would that be fairer?

 Hilarious. Won’t happen. So what you’re saying is to avoid legal action they will vote to relegate one of their members that haven’t been mathematically relegated and in their place promote a non member that hasn’t been mathematically promoted and then pay everyone off? Just run that through your head before replying

Edited by JF
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Sorry sgncfc but once again, we are discussing yet another scheme. The two greater consensus is either play the season to a finish or null and void.

And its no good asking Boris to make a decision, he made the wrong one about Europe:classic_biggrin:

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14 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Absolutely RT, there is no way they will go against that advice, its never been a realistic option, just a slow move towards the inevitable. Someone else to blame too.

Agree, this now gives them the get out of jail free card that they may have been waiting for....

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33 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Germany begin to ease their measures, now cases are coming at a rate of over the R of 1. They are about to announce the bringing back of a number of lockdown measures. They reckon if they don’t their hospitals will be overwhelmed by the end of May.

Wonder what that does for the return of the Bundesliga.

 

This development is very worrying. And it ends any possibility of sport surely.

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14 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

There is only one option that is fair to ALL. And that is null and void. If we have to genuflect to the top 6 of the EPL then why even bother being in it.

I couldn't care less if we are relegated. Our chances of staying up were slim and probably confirmed if we have to play every other day in a strange place.

But there is any amount of ways to try and manage this crisis and that is the problem. Whichever quasi Duckworth Lewis you try and use, you end up creating more.

Null and void isn't fair to all. No system in these circumstances can be fair to all. 

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I believe the Dutch have set the precedent, null n void the season, no promotion no relegation, it looks like the French are following today, waiting to see their final details, but imagine it’ll be the same.

If the EPL follows and can’t finish it’s going to be hard other than the same as other nations.

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30 minutes ago, sonyc said:

This development is very worrying. And it ends any possibility of sport surely.

Here’s the article

Germany may be compelled to bring back elements of its lockdown amid signs that coronavirus cases could be on the point of starting to multiply again.

The country’s virus reproduction rate, which measures how many people the average person with Covid-19 infects, has rebounded to a value of 1.0, the dividing line between growth and decline, according to government epidemiologists.

Angela Merkel has said that German hospitals will be overwhelmed by the end of June if the number rises even a little higher, and that a corresponding increase in infections would make a second “shutdown” unavoidable.

The figure is likely to exacerbate divisions over Germany’s coronavirus strategy as ministers prepare to discuss the next steps at a video conference on Thursday.

Over the past week

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Here’s the article

Germany may be compelled to bring back elements of its lockdown amid signs that coronavirus cases could be on the point of starting to multiply again.

The country’s virus reproduction rate, which measures how many people the average person with Covid-19 infects, has rebounded to a value of 1.0, the dividing line between growth and decline, according to government epidemiologists.

Angela Merkel has said that German hospitals will be overwhelmed by the end of June if the number rises even a little higher, and that a corresponding increase in infections would make a second “shutdown” unavoidable.

The figure is likely to exacerbate divisions over Germany’s coronavirus strategy as ministers prepare to discuss the next steps at a video conference on Thursday.

Over the past week

 

 

 

 

Thanks. 

I did read that even 1.2 or 1.3 R would threaten their health service. And it's an eye opener for what our government have to try and manage in post lockdown territory.

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The direction of travel here appears to only be going one way. Makes you wonder if the FIFA health adviser is helping to assist a few league administrations with legal negotiations they may be having with broadcasters. 

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47 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Sorry sgncfc but once again, we are discussing yet another scheme. The two greater consensus is either play the season to a finish or null and void.

And its no good asking Boris to make a decision, he made the wrong one about Europe:classic_biggrin:

Did I miss something? I thought the public voted by a majority to leave Europe. I didn’t realise it was a Boris decision alone!

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44 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Of course they can. The EFL is just a company with 20 members - if 14 of them vote to do something, it's done. Fairness has got nothing to do with it. What they have to decide amongst themselves is what any repercussions might be - specifically the possibility of legal action, So, if they relegate Norwich and only promote Leeds and sweeten the pill by giving £50m each to us and West Brom and another £50m to the teams from 3rd to 10th in the Champs to share, would that be fairer?

Don't get why you think the EPL clubs would vote to relegate us. We're the whipping boys, a certain 6 points to most clubs in the league. Leeds certainly wouldn't be. And they can shove £50m where the sun don't shine, £100m minimum plus parachute payments.

If the EPL decides to resume they'd better be confident of completing as it will be behind closed doors and every club in the league will have to refund season ticket holders. Failing to complete would have those clubs claiming compensation.

It won't happen anyway, no country in the world has yet proven they can eradicate the virus once restrictions are lifted and Germany is the latest example. It's over, the main worry now is if next season can start.

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With Colchester United releasing several of their first team squad at the end of their contracts (whom the chairman states they wanted to keep but cannot afford too) on the 1st June I do not see how any league can be completed. 

Should football restart he states he is going to play academy staff, how is that fair on the rest of the league(s) in attempting to complete the season.

BBC SPORT. Colchester United chairman Robbie Cowling has revealed he's taken the "very difficult decision" to release a number of senior players due to the financial impact of the coronavirus pandemic.

Striker Frank Nouble and captain Luke Prosser have both been allowed to leave, as have Ryan Jackson and Brandon Comley.

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4 hours ago, Essjayess said:

There are thousands of family members in Liverpool who have lost loved ones  to the virus..what is fair or unfair as regards terminating  a season of football and in what manner is small and trifling compared to the loss of a relative and all that comes with that.

You're absolutely right about that and I apologise if my post implied any notion to the contrary. I was just commenting on the respective merits (if any) of the 'resume playing but behind closed doors (and potentially at neutral venues)' option v voiding v cancelling the season and working out (on some basis) what the final league tables should be.

Whatever the outcome it's a miniscule issue when set against the awful effects of COVID on many sufferers not to mention the death toll which I'm sure most of us would agree has exceeded all expectations when the virus first landed in UK. As others have mentioned, I don't hear any clamour from football fans generally for the season to resume unless and until it's clear we have COVID well under control or it has burned itself out. The Govt. would be making a potentially serious error of judgement if it encouraged the PL / Football to 'get back to work' as the 'nation would get a morale boost'. Whoever is advising them (if anyone) to go down that track clearly hasn't taken soundings from football fans generally. Mind you all this talk about football resuming is just speculation currently  and I doubt whether BJ would take that risk whilst the Lockdown stays pretty much firmly shut elsewhere in society. 'Football' has a bad enough reputation as a cash making machine anyway without scoring any more own goals.  

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12 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Thanks. 

I did read that even 1.2 or 1.3 R would threaten their health service. And it's an eye opener for what our government have to try and manage in post lockdown territory.

Impossible

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31 minutes ago, king canary said:

Null and void isn't fair to all. No system in these circumstances can be fair to all. 

None of the solutions is fair and only one of the solutions looks reasonably safe from succesful legal action. Namely if the government copied France and ordered, force majeure, that football could not restart until the late summer or autumn.

The likelihood of that increased today but I still think this government will try very hard to find reasons to agree to a restart. Another major league cancelling, and Uefa realising its plans are shot to pieces, might do the trick.

A while back (it seems like an age but probably only four weeks) I did outline a possible scenario. That the major leagues would ignore Uefa and agree to cancel, with the aim of starting the 2020-21 season early in September. So the transfer window could be synchronised continent-wide to run from July 1 to August 31.

The EFL clubs, many on the verge of collapse, could then quickly go into a kind of financial hibernation and the various English football bodies, the TV companies and the government could work on a rescue plan so there was a pyramid left to start again.

As to whether there would be promotion and relegation, as above there isn't a fair and legally-proof solution. I am sure any attempt to relegate teams, no matter what the attempt to justify that, would be hit with massive legal actions.

So I think there may be renewed interest in the Chilean solution, of promoting those from the automatic slots but not relegating. It is not ideal, or legally-proofed. Nothing is. But has the advantages of meaning this season will not have been a complete waste. And the TV companies would be happy with four extra rounds of EPL matches.

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On 27/04/2020 at 17:22, keelansgrandad said:

I like when they talk of losing the TV money from the CL when they haven't even had it yet.

Ah, but that doesn't mean they haven't spent it :classic_biggrin:

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11 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

With Colchester United releasing several of their first team squad at the end of their contracts (whom the chairman states they wanted to keep but cannot afford too) on the 1st June I do not see how any league can be completed. 

Should football restart he states he is going to play academy staff, how is that fair on the rest of the league(s) in attempting to complete the season.

BBC SPORT. Colchester United chairman Robbie Cowling has revealed he's taken the "very difficult decision" to release a number of senior players due to the financial impact of the coronavirus pandemic.

Striker Frank Nouble and captain Luke Prosser have both been allowed to leave, as have Ryan Jackson and Brandon Comley.

I hated Col U for one season, but this is very sad.

To think there are some on here who think the resumption of this season could be delayed until next year. Some clubs in the lower leagues won't get beyond the summer.

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If Man City were the runaway leaders again this year I think there would be a overwhelming majority voice to just draw a line under it. You also don't really see West Brom fans up in arms because they're used to promotion and relegation.

The ice is melting under the feet of the English officialdom.

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25 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I hated Col U for one season, but this is very sad.

To think there are some on here who think the resumption of this season could be delayed until next year. Some clubs in the lower leagues won't get beyond the summer.

Odd that the fairly basic concepts of finance seem to baffle so many

Without the remaining nearly £800m of TV money, it cannot be passed f=down the pyramid and so clubs like Col U will not survive this summer - never mind next season.

So it is not about hare brained schemes to re-jig the tables etc - it is about somehow getting that money into UK football

We can then work out where to go from there

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58 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

You're absolutely right about that and I apologise if my post implied any notion to the contrary. I was just commenting on the respective merits (if any) of the 'resume playing but behind closed doors (and potentially at neutral venues)' option v voiding v cancelling the season and working out (on some basis) what the final league tables should be.

Whatever the outcome it's a miniscule issue when set against the awful effects of COVID on many sufferers not to mention the death toll which I'm sure most of us would agree has exceeded all expectations when the virus first landed in UK. As others have mentioned, I don't hear any clamour from football fans generally for the season to resume unless and until it's clear we have COVID well under control or it has burned itself out. The Govt. would be making a potentially serious error of judgement if it encouraged the PL / Football to 'get back to work' as the 'nation would get a morale boost'. Whoever is advising them (if anyone) to go down that track clearly hasn't taken soundings from football fans generally. Mind you all this talk about football resuming is just speculation currently  and I doubt whether BJ would take that risk whilst the Lockdown stays pretty much firmly shut elsewhere in society. 'Football' has a bad enough reputation as a cash making machine anyway without scoring any more own goals.  

Nice reply yr, thumbs up from me.

Personally, im not bothered or interested how things like titles, promotions, relegations and the like are sorted, i really dont even want to see any sport, football included, to start up in any shape or form while hundreds are still losing their lives daily from this awful  virus.

My only care is for NCFC to survive as a club, the immediate future and a bit beyond is for sure a headache  for those with a part to play in running the club and further down the line is a complete unknown at this moment in time. That is about all any of us can say right now.

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1 minute ago, Essjayess said:

Nice reply yr, thumbs up from me.

Personally, im not bothered or interested how things like titles, promotions, relegations and the like are sorted, i really dont even want to see any sport, football included, to start up in any shape or form while hundreds are still losing their lives daily from this awful  virus.

My only care is for NCFC to survive as a club, the immediate future and a bit beyond is for sure a headache  for those with a part to play in running the club and further down the line is a complete unknown at this moment in time. That is about all any of us can say right now.

Essjayess, the thing is we’re rightly discussing the Covid virus on another thread, as this is a footy forum, this discussion is important to us, survival of football clubs, jobs and future of communities. If you’re not that bothered about promotion or relegation then fine, others are my friend.

You certainly have full focus on the virus, that’s great, but I’m not sure we should feel we need to apologise on a football forum discussing important football issues.

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Football cannot resume until August/Sept. IMHO.

Watching multi million pound footballers playing football behind closed doors( which personally i would not pay for anyway) whilst the majority of the country cannot go to work nor see other family members would be a serious PR own goal but those in charge.

Teams playing three games in a week and one player ( or even one person at the match) in one team being tested positive during that week means half the teams would suddenly no longer be able to play for another two weeks which ends the whole thing anyway.

 

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According to Twitter the President of the French FA seems to have said that the tables as they stand will be the final tables and that Champion League places, promotions and relegations will be settled on that basis. All subject to ratification. 

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6 minutes ago, Indy said:

Essjayess, the thing is we’re rightly discussing the Covid virus on another thread, as this is a footy forum, this discussion is important to us, survival of football clubs, jobs and future of communities. If you’re not that bothered about promotion or relegation then fine, others are my friend.

You certainly have full focus on the virus, that’s great, but I’m not sure we should feel we need to apologise on a football forum discussing important football issues.

I agree Indy. yr replied with an apology, which  was not really needed, but i gave yr a thumbs up and thought it was a nice reply as it contained much football related  stuff from his view of things  Difficult times, and even though so, there are plenty  i appreciate, that  regard  such things as promtion, relegation etc as important, even if my  humble self regard them as not.

From a fooball perspective, the thing im missing most right now, is seeing DF walk to the fans and preparing to raise his arms  in acknowledgement of another great City performance. Lets hope such moments are not to far off into the distance.

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15 minutes ago, Barry Brockes said:

According to Twitter the President of the French FA seems to have said that the tables as they stand will be the final tables and that Champion League places, promotions and relegations will be settled on that basis. All subject to ratification. 

Isn’t his decision. It’s up to the league to decide 

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21 minutes ago, duke63 said:

Football cannot resume until August/Sept. IMHO.

Watching multi million pound footballers playing football behind closed doors( which personally i would not pay for anyway) whilst the majority of the country cannot go to work nor see other family members would be a serious PR own goal but those in charge.

Teams playing three games in a week and one player ( or even one person at the match) in one team being tested positive during that week means half the teams would suddenly no longer be able to play for another two weeks which ends the whole thing anyway.

 

or more accurately football will not survive unless the TV income (or replacement) is not handed over

It is quite staggering to see how many fail to grasp even the basics of finance in this regard

 

clubs cannot simply go into suspended animation and re-appear a few months hence, they either get the money or go bust

and before any squeaks sound off, I am not endorsing playing these games, merely pointing out the stark facts

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