9th June d Day for PL

[JF 694]

 

[sonyc 5,512]

37 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

That is confirmed now. They could I suppose try to restart the season then but overwhelmingly logic would dictate they scrap and start 2030-21?!?!?!?!?!?! in August/September. It does very much scr*w up Uefa's schedule, which was based on the big five finishing by the end of June.

It also provides a precedent for the EPL et al. Presumably the French government believes that even behind closed doors games would be an unjustified burden for the health service, so expect to see that argument increasingly deployed here.

Toulouse will be happy if there is no relegation. At least 10 points adrift. And the top of L2 is tight. Apparently relegation/promotion issues to be decided in May.

[sonyc 5,512]

2 minutes ago, JF said:

 

By the way JF, a big thanks for all your up to date reports on the football league situations. You're on the ball!

[JF 694]

Just now, sonyc said:

By the way JF, a big thanks for all your up to date reports on the football league situations. You're on the ball!

No worries. The days are long with not a great amount to do at the moment, it passes the time 

[daly 501]

Why would the government let the EPL finish but no other leagues, thought Boris was in charge of the country not Sky 

[Van wink 2,994]

6 minutes ago, JF said:

 

That’s seems to be that then.

[king canary 7,605]

France is apparently considering three options for finishing the season.

1) A points per game table

2) Table finishes as it is now

3) The final table is how it was at 19 games (so 50% of the season done).

Null and void not on the table apparently.

 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

10 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

And you think 'voiding' the season is fair! Try standing outside Anfield and waving a placard to that effect. I think the reaction you get may be somewhat 'negative'. To draw a line under the season now with more than 3/4 season played OR deciding positions on an average points per game to date is not 'fudged'. How so? Instead continuing with this PL obsession to 'complete' but with nil fans allowed AND (it seems), playing games on a 'conveyor belt' on park pitches IS 'unfair'. It deprives the 'home' team not only of the theoretical advantage of support but also playing on their own pitch and stadium. The bloated PL ramble on about the 'integrity' of the competition. That's plain ****. ALL they are interested in is getting 100% of the TV money in to keep the financial wolves from the door.      

Yes I do actually because it treats all clubs exactly the same. Its unfortunate and I of course get why Liverpool, Leeds or WBA fans would be upset (plus of course why fans of clubs given a reprieve would be pleased) but if the leagues cannot be completed then the only fair solution is to void them. To be honest if they want to give Liverpool some form of notional title to keep t hem happy then I don't really care but if a league has almost a quarter of its games still to play and you cannot complete it due to an act of god then I think voiding it is a heck of a lot fairer than falsely determining the final positions by freezing the table as it stands or a point per game formula approach. We should not be relegated if the season doesn't finish and nobody should be promoted if the championship season doesn't finish. 

I agree with you on the neutral venues point. That's not fair either and I would hope we are one of the clubs resisting although I suspect we are so desperate for the cash that we will be seen to go along with that.

[Essjayess 307]

12 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

And you think 'voiding' the season is fair! Try standing outside Anfield and waving a placard to that effect. I think the reaction you get may be somewhat 'negative'. To draw a line under the season now with more than 3/4 season played OR deciding positions on an average points per game to date is not 'fudged'. How so? Instead continuing with this PL obsession to 'complete' but with nil fans allowed AND (it seems), playing games on a 'conveyor belt' on park pitches IS 'unfair'. It deprives the 'home' team not only of the theoretical advantage of support but also playing on their own pitch and stadium. The bloated PL ramble on about the 'integrity' of the competition. That's plain ****. ALL they are interested in is getting 100% of the TV money in to keep the financial wolves from the door.      

There are thousands of family members in Liverpool who have lost loved ones  to the virus..what is fair or unfair as regards terminating  a season of football and in what manner is small and trifling compared to the loss of a relative and all that comes with that.

[sonyc 5,512]

3 minutes ago, king canary said:

France is apparently considering three options for finishing the season.

1) A points per game table

2) Table finishes as it is now

3) The final table is how it was at 19 games (so 50% of the season done).

Null and void not on the table apparently.

 

I could see PPG as the deciding factor. And in all other leagues. It is blunt but then so is cancelling a season.

[TIL 1010 4,738]

Norwich City have launched a new strip in preparation for football to start again.

 

[Well b back 3,203]

1 minute ago, sonyc said:

I could see PPG as the deciding factor. And in all other leagues. It is blunt but then so is cancelling a season.

There will be lots of legal challenges. On top of that if you relegate 3 how do you decide the 3 coming up ?

[sonyc 5,512]

By points per game

[Surfer 1,547]

I can see the logic of the Government wanting the EPL to play out its remaining fixtures in the spirit of national unity. And I can see the logic of broadcasters, players and the league itself wanting that to happen to minimize the financial losses. However, there is no sporting value to these games. We for example still had 5 home games against bottom half teams plus Arsenal and Man City away to play, take away our pitch, our crowd and Just getting to Norfolk and where is the sporting integrity? That’s just us, I’m sure many other clubs have the same issue. 
 

So even if the logistics of testing and tracing allow - they really need to be testing all the players and coaches every day starting now - this must be done in the spirit of “ we are only doing this to help the country” not “this is about completing the season” After all, even if they do this with the EPL who do you promote from the Champs? 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Surfer

[Jim Smith 2,317]

3 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I could see PPG as the deciding factor. And in all other leagues. It is blunt but then so is cancelling a season.

PPG equals multiple law suits I would say (I would hope we would try and take legal action anyway although the fact the premier league has a "members vote" system makes it complex in legal terms.

If the EFL cannot complete the championship season then I do not see that any team would have a winnable case if there was no promotion. 

My own view is that there would be more chance of the football authorities facing successful legal claims if they use PPG than there will be if the void. 

[Hairy Canary 699]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

France is apparently considering three options for finishing the season.

1) A points per game table

2) Table finishes as it is now

3) The final table is how it was at 19 games (so 50% of the season done).

Null and void not on the table apparently.

 

Producing a league table by whatever method is needed to meet UEFA’s stipulation that qualification for next season’s CL and Europa League must be decided based on performances on the field. Doesn’t mean teams at the bottom of a contrived table would necessarily be relegated, especially if the EFL fail to finish which seems more likely by the day. 

[sonyc 5,512]

1 minute ago, Surfer said:

I can see the logic of the Government wanting the EPL to play out its remaining fixture in the spirit of national unity. And I can see the logic of broadcasters, players and the league itself wanting that to happen to minimize financial losses. However, there is no sporting value to these games. We for example still had 5 home games against bottom half teams plus arsenal to play, take away our pictures, our crowd and where is the sporting integrity? That’s just us, I’m sure many other clubs have the same issue. 
 

So even if the logistics of testing and tracing allow - they really need to be testing all the players and coaches every day starting now - this must be done in the spirit of “ we are only doing this to help the country” not, this is about completing the season. After all, even if they do this who do you promote from the Champs? 

I would actually prefer us to play behind closed doors than simply be relegated on a PPG basis.

Yet, it feels all a bit unholy given the testing issues and more important priorities. 

[sonyc 5,512]

2 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

PPG equals multiple law suits I would say (I would hope we would try and take legal action anyway although the fact the premier league has a "members vote" system makes it complex in legal terms.

If the EFL cannot complete the championship season then I do not see that any team would have a winnable case if there was no promotion. 

My own view is that there would be more chance of the football authorities facing successful legal claims if they use PPG than there will be if the void. 

I'm not sure on the litigation issue Jim. Yet if the season is simply cancelled then PPG is a method that can be bluntly applied in similar vein. It will be unfair whatever happens.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

4 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I would actually prefer us to play behind closed doors than simply be relegated on a PPG basis.

Yet, it feels all a bit unholy given the testing issues and more important priorities. 

Points per game would arguably be the worst outcome for us as a club as we would not only lose the Tv monies and gate monies but we would still be relegated. That would I assume be the "worst case scenario" as referred to by the Club and would be massively, massively harsh on us (although obviously there are more important things in life right now). Much more unfair in my view that denying a team promotion when they have not yet earnt it 9and their club is not entirely set up to be reliant on the income they thought they had been guaranteed).

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

1 minute ago, Hairy Canary said:

Producing a league table by whatever method is needed to meet UEFA’s stipulation that qualification for next season’s CL and Europa League must be decided based on performances on the field. Doesn’t mean teams at the bottom of a contrived table would necessarily be relegated, especially if the EFL fail to finish which seems more likely by the day. 

Hairy, I am not sure Uefa's stipulation is in effect enforceable. If a major league decides to ignore it I doubt Uefa would do anything. But I agree that it seems less and less likely that the Championship will be played to a finish.

One solution which I mentioned a few weeks back is the Chilean example, of promoting but not relegating. it has some advantages and some drawbacks, and would probably incur some legal action, but so would pretty much any 'solution'.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

2 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I'm not sure on the litigation issue Jim. Yet if the season is simply cancelled then PPG is a method that can be bluntly applied in similar vein. It will be unfair whatever happens.

I don't disagree that it can be bluntly applied. It wold certainly be blunt. But do you not think it is more unfair than voiding the season?

[Well b back 3,203]

Just now, sonyc said:

By points per game

So Villa got to cup final and missed a game. Had they won that game they would be safe whatever way you decided to do it, however ppg they are relegated, as it stands they are relegated. Have a feeling unless they are left in EPL they will certainly challenge ?.

There is no fair way other than 2 promoted none relegated and 5 relegated next year. That however will Unbalance the championship as there will be 5 teams miles ahead of the rest.

And will there really be football before a vaccine or treatment is found ?

Can you imagine ( quite rightly ) people in the NHS or care sector ( especially those not interested in football ) saying hang on a minute, we are struggling to get tests and PPE to save our lives whilst poxy footballers get whatever they want. I miss and love my football but at what cost ?

[JF 694]

8 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I would actually prefer us to play behind closed doors than simply be relegated on a PPG basis.

Yet, it feels all a bit unholy given the testing issues and more important priorities. 

I can’t see any way that the PL will relegate on Ppg and the opinion of many journalists on twitter ect are the same. For a while now they have been of the opinion that the PL will finish Ppg with no relegation and no promotion, with the slight possibility of opening up promotion spots if they were advised the efl had a water tight case 

Edited April 28, 2020 by JF

[sonyc 5,512]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

I don't disagree that it can be bluntly applied. It wold certainly be blunt. But do you not think it is more unfair than voiding the season?

Indeed I do. I just see it as the kind of thing the authorities would do. I am holding onto the idea of an expanded EPL at the moment. Yet.....

[Jim Smith 2,317]

1 minute ago, JF said:

I can’t see any way that the PL will relegate on Ppg and the opinion of many journalists on twitter ect are the same. For a while now they have been of the opinion that the PL will finish Ppg with no relegation and no promotion 

I guess that give or take a bit of chuntering about the European places then most clubs would accept that. Financially premier league status is far more pivotal to these clubs than whether or not they get into Europe.

[sonyc 5,512]

3 minutes ago, JF said:

I can’t see any way that the PL will relegate on Ppg and the opinion of many journalists on twitter ect are the same. For a while now they have been of the opinion that the PL will finish Ppg with no relegation and no promotion 

Then that would be a fairer outcome JF. 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

1 minute ago, sonyc said:

Indeed I do. I just see it as the kind of thing the authorities would do. I am holding onto the idea of an expanded EPL at the moment. Yet.....

I wouldn't have so much of an issue with using it as someone else has suggested above but relegation for a premier league club can change the history of that club for a prolonged period. It would be massive and hugely controversial to relegate teams based on that. In this regard it may help us that a relatively "big" club in Villa are currently in the bottom three!

[Jim Smith 2,317]

Just now, sonyc said:

Then that would be a fairer outcome JF. 

The problem is that as I understand it (although I am not quite sure how accurate this is or how it came to pass) any solution arrived at by the premier league also has to be approved by the football league. Would they ever agree to that?

[sonyc 5,512]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

The problem is that as I understand it (although I am not quite sure how accurate this is or how it came to pass) any solution arrived at by the premier league also has to be approved by the football league. Would they ever agree to that?

I thought the EPL is it's own body (with its own articles) but I may be wrong. So, in theory, they could decide not to have relegation from it or promotion into it. Happy to be proved otherwise but a few posters have looked into it more forensically I believe.

[Hairy Canary 699]

3 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Hairy, I am not sure Uefa's stipulation is in effect enforceable. If a major league decides to ignore it I doubt Uefa would do anything. But I agree that it seems less and less likely that the Championship will be played to a finish.

One solution which I mentioned a few weeks back is the Chilean example, of promoting but not relegating. it has some advantages and some drawbacks, and would probably incur some legal action, but so would pretty much any 'solution'.

Agree with you that UEFA’s request is not enforceable Purple but I can’t see how a major league would benefit by ignoring it. Someone has to qualify so what other method of deciding is there other than some sort of league table?