9th June d Day for PL

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

Or worse still someone indirectly affected; a referee, linesman, coaching staff, security, cleaner, player's family. The list goes on for this ridiculous charade.

Reality will kick in either before or once the restart commences and we'll end up not concluding this season and next season won't happen either.

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

52 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Or worse still someone indirectly affected; a referee, linesman, coaching staff, security, cleaner, player's family. The list goes on for this ridiculous charade.

Reality will kick in either before or once the restart commences and we'll end up not concluding this season and next season won't happen either.

Isn't that why it's more logical to forget about this season and give extra time to try and get better control over the virus.

I know I'm now going to get lectured about money etc etc but trying to start and making it worse is not what is needed.

As for the money side, as I am doing with the company that I run, in negotiating, deferring payments and whatever else it takes to make sure that post-covid there is a company to return to. 

[JF 694]

12 minutes ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

Isn't that why it's more logical to forget about this season and give extra time to try and get better control over the virus.

I know I'm now going to get lectured about money etc etc but trying to start and making it worse is not what is needed.

As for the money side, as I am doing with the company that I run, in negotiating, deferring payments and whatever else it takes to make sure that post-covid there is a company to return to. 

Oh dear

oh deary deary me.

Waffle, Waffle,Waffle

Cantankerous.

Arrogance.

Condescending 

 

More Waffle

 

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by JF

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

9 minutes ago, JF said:

Oh dear

oh deary deary me.

Waffle, Waffle,Waffle

Cantankerous.

Arrogance.

Condescending 

 

More Waffle

 

 

How dare you oh dear, oh deary deary me 😂

[Orly 277]

I'm surprised at exactly how many people want to cease life as we know it indefinitely.  

People are aware, I presume, that there is no cure for the common cold?  40% of common colds are coronaviruses.  This assumption that there will be a magical vaccine soon (or ever) is strange. (disclaimer: am not a medical doctor, just repeating something I read)

Yes, there are dangers.  Yes the world has changed.  But how long are we willing to be cowed into submission and deterred from living life?

I for one support the resumption of the football.  As a two fingers up to the virus.  If people are going back to work, and travelling on the tube, then footballers can play football behind closed doors. 

[Well b back 3,190]

2 minutes ago, Orly said:

I'm surprised at exactly how many people want to cease life as we know it indefinitely.  

People are aware, I presume, that there is no cure for the common cold?  40% of common colds are coronaviruses.  This assumption that there will be a magical vaccine soon (or ever) is strange. (disclaimer: am not a medical doctor, just repeating something I read)

Yes, there are dangers.  Yes the world has changed.  But how long are we willing to be cowed into submission and deterred from living life?

I for one support the resumption of the football.  As a two fingers up to the virus.  If people are going back to work, and travelling on the tube, then footballers can play football behind closed doors. 

Comparing Covid 19 to a common cold is a bit far fetched. The reason 1/2 a million people won’t die in this country is because of what is being done. Liverpool’s Lord Mayor ( rightly or wrongly ) is accusing the Government of being responsible for a large number of deaths connected to one Football match, as are the good people of Cheltenham where rates connected to the racing are concerning. 
Do you think footballers are Gladiators who should risk their lives to keep some people amused. Even if there is Football there will be no crowds until such time as there is a vaccine or the virus is somehow eradicated. Do you also feel footballers should be 1st in line for testing, Emergency services should be taken from the frontline or if they have spare time should they not be allowed to rest ?

Mr Trump has tried to put 2 fingers upto the virus and that went well.

Footballers themselves do not want to risk their lives but are being told they have to.

[king canary 7,578]

59 minutes ago, JF said:

Oh dear

oh deary deary me.

Waffle, Waffle,Waffle

Cantankerous.

Arrogance.

Condescending 

 

More Waffle

 

 

Its uncanny 

[Orly 277]

8 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Comparing Covid 19 to a common cold is a bit far fetched. The reason 1/2 a million people won’t die in this country is because of what is being done. Liverpool’s Lord Mayor ( rightly or wrongly ) is accusing the Government of being responsible for a large number of deaths connected to one Football match, as are the good people of Cheltenham where rates connected to the racing are concerning. 
Do you think footballers are Gladiators who should risk their lives to keep some people amused. Even if there is Football there will be no crowds until such time as there is a vaccine or the virus is somehow eradicated. Do you also feel footballers should be 1st in line for testing, Emergency services should be taken from the frontline or if they have spare time should they not be allowed to rest ?

Mr Trump has tried to put 2 fingers upto the virus and that went well.

Footballers themselves do not want to risk their lives but are being told they have to.

Wildly misinterpreting me there. I'll let you off as it's an emotive subject matter.

I didn't compare it to a cold, I said it's from the same family of viruses which are notoriously difficult to create vaccines for (ie, covid will very likely be around a long time, seasonally - at least).

Yes, I think to some extent that if other people are asked to be returned to work (nurses, teachers, office workers, factory workers) then footballers should indeed do their job - as modern day gladiators.  The return of the football will indeed provide a (much needed) morale boost to a significant portion of the population (which is not to be dismissed considering the burgeoning mental health crisis).  Also, another point you've misrepresented is that I am talking about the resumption of football behind closed doors - therefore no mass death tolls, etc.

There is (now, apparently) enough capacity for the testing required, and of course, NHS should be first priority.  If there's enough testing capacity left over, then there's no problem.

 

[Well b back 3,190]

Glenn Murray’s view, players are being put under pressure to return. See his football focus interview

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/52505612

 

Teams 'put under pressure' to return - Murray

• 1 May 20201 May 2020
• From the section Football

Brighton striker Glenn Murray tells Football Focus that Premier League teams are being "put under pressure" to return to action too soon, in order not to impact future competitions. 

The Seagulls started socially-distanced training this week, but Murray says describing the club's training ground as open is "a bit of a stretch".

Watch the full interview on Football Focus, Saturday 2 May at 12:00 BST on BBC One, iPlayer and the BBC Sport website and app.

Brighton striker Glenn Murray tells Football Focus that Premier League teams are being "put under pressure" to return to action too soon, in order not to impact future competitions. 

The Seagulls started socially-distanced training this week, but Murray says describing the club's training ground as open is "a bit of a stretch".

Watch the full interview on Football Focus, Saturday 2 May at 12:00 BST on BBC One, iPlayer and the BBC Sport website and app.

Brighton striker Glenn Murray tells Football Focus that Premier League teams are being "put under pressure" to return to action too soon, in order not to impact future competitions. 

The Seagulls started socially-distanced training this week, but Murray says describing the club's training ground as open is "a bit of a stretch".

Watch the full interview on Football Focus, Saturday 2 May at 12:00 BST on BBC One, iPlayer and the BBC Sport website and app.

[Van wink 2,994]

9 minutes ago, king canary said:

Its uncanny 

It is... 😀

Whilst most people think it would be grotesque and look sick for football to continue, Billy doesn’t think it would look sick and he doesn’t doubt it would be a very welcome distraction. 

Deary me 😉

[JF 694]

Article on the athletic suggests it’s the big 6 teams that are pressing for this to happen, bottom 6 far from happy at losing home advantage in the run in. Unclear as to if there will be a vote or not on this but there is the possibility because it changes the competition rules that may trigger a vote. This will absolutely go ahead if the Government allows it to and football will have probably crossed a line it will struggle to come back from with the majority of the public in my opinion 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Now is the right time for the middle and smaller clubs to stand up to the bully boy clubs. No-one will end up watching the same six playing each other time after time. Other sports have fallen foul of elitism.

There will be bribery and no doubt some will be tempted. I said weeks  ago that the best thing that could happen is for Delia to go to the meeting and "fcuk the lot of you". Please relegate us because NCFC as a club is nothing like you lot and neither are our supporters. Our goal is to play good football in front of a full house.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

The Government have an enormous amount on their plate which is self evident and will have for many many months into the future. In that context football is well down the pack of matters to consider with lives being lost, people losing their jobs etc. I wonder in that context if they have misread the mood in the country which by and large even for supporters is not in favor of a start to any league or season before it is safe to do so. More important than discussing about a moral boosting start to football which is inappropriate they need to address the very great threat to the very existence of many of the 92 league clubs and those below. I do not know funds the Premiership and their sponsors have at their disposal but they will be significant and they rather than the Government need to fund survival packages or else when play does eventually restart we may only have half the clubs still around. So Sky and the PL need to bang their heads together possibly facilitated by the Government to preserve a National Institution which is football  rather than bleat on about getting this season finished or even the next one started when it is clearly not safe for players and officials and there will probably be no spectators until next year. What happens to everyone who has paid for next seasons season tickets is another can of worms but one that will not go away

[Bill 1,788]

1 hour ago, Yorkshire Canary said:

 they need to address the very great threat to the very existence of many of the 92 league clubs and those below. I do not know funds the Premiership and their sponsors have at their disposal but they will be significant and they rather than the Government need to fund survival packages or else when play does eventually restart we may only have half the clubs still around. So Sky and the PL need to bang their heads together possibly facilitated by the Government

oh dear, oh dearie dear me

there is not this great pool of money sloshing around

what was due to be, or has been, paid out is committed money. What you are asking is that the money due to the clubs outside of the PL should go and whistle.....unless the government finds just under the £1bn required.

However back in the land of reality, we have

" A four-hour Premier League meeting to decide how football can return amid the coronavirus pandemic held today has ended with clubs reaffirming their commitment to finishing the current campaign.  "

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8277211/Premier-League-meeting-Clubs-remain-committed-finishing-season.html

"West Ham's London Stadium, Manchester City's Etihad Stadium and Arsenal's Emirates Stadium have all been mooted as potential venues once football resumes, as well as Norwich's Carrow Road, Bournemouth's Vitality Stadium and Villa Park.  "

Football cannot be allowed to collapse because some numpties don't like that the monster they created has to be fed

Get the season ended, make sure that clubs are paid what is due -THEN  sit down and work out what can be afforded for 20/21 and after. The idea that it is simply shut down now leaving lower league clubs to wither and die is absurd. Because that is the consequence of what you and others are demanding.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Bill

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

2 hours ago, Yorkshire Canary said:

The Government have an enormous amount on their plate which is self evident and will have for many many months into the future. In that context football is well down the pack of matters to consider with lives being lost, people losing their jobs etc. I wonder in that context if they have misread the mood in the country which by and large even for supporters is not in favor of a start to any league or season before it is safe to do so. More important than discussing about a moral boosting start to football which is inappropriate they need to address the very great threat to the very existence of many of the 92 league clubs and those below. I do not know funds the Premiership and their sponsors have at their disposal but they will be significant and they rather than the Government need to fund survival packages or else when play does eventually restart we may only have half the clubs still around. So Sky and the PL need to bang their heads together possibly facilitated by the Government to preserve a National Institution which is football  rather than bleat on about getting this season finished or even the next one started when it is clearly not safe for players and officials and there will probably be no spectators until next year. What happens to everyone who has paid for next seasons season tickets is another can of worms but one that will not go away

Completely agree, people are dying and that's far more important that a game of football.

That should have the government's priority not a bunch overpaid footballers getting to kick their balls.

Some things are more important than the now billion pound problem. How much is a life worth 🤷‍♂️

[JF 694]

Brighton’s ceo has broken ranks to criticise the idea 

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by JF

[JF 694]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

oh dear, oh dearie dear me

there is not this great pool of money sloshing around

what was due to be, or has been, paid out is committed money. What you are asking is that the money due to the clubs outside of the PL should go and whistle.....unless the government finds just under the £1bn required.

However back in the land of reality, we have

" A four-hour Premier League meeting to decide how football can return amid the coronavirus pandemic held today has ended with clubs reaffirming their commitment to finishing the current campaign.  "

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8277211/Premier-League-meeting-Clubs-remain-committed-finishing-season.html

"West Ham's London Stadium, Manchester City's Etihad Stadium and Arsenal's Emirates Stadium have all been mooted as potential venues once football resumes, as well as Norwich's Carrow Road, Bournemouth's Vitality Stadium and Villa Park.  "

Football cannot be allowed to collapse because some numpties don't like that the monster they created has to be fed

Get the season ended, make sure that clubs are paid what is due -THEN  sit down and work out what can be afforded for 20/21 and after. The idea that it is simply shut down now leaving lower league clubs to wither and die is absurd. Because that is the consequence of what you and others are demanding.

Eh?

[Surfer 1,547]

We are confused Bill. 
 

It is clear that the PL could (and in their opinion must) play the remaining games to secure the revenues that the PL clubs budgeted for. And that could entail games without spectators, just TV coverage. 
 

But the EFL clubs almost saw exclusively rely on their match day income. There is no way the government will allow spectators at football matches for the foreseeable future, so the questions become - how do we reduce our expenses, and can we obtain new funding? 
 

Reducing expenses means furlough / layoffs and releasing players from contracts on June 30 (or before) and not signing anyone else until the start of next season. Also ideally not traveling to away games and not hosting home games as it’s all expense. Finding new revenue is almost impossible as PL teams typically don’t buy EFL players and most EFL teams will have no money. 
 

So one proposal I have advocated for is to utilize the normal parachute payments of the three relegated PL teams as support payment to the EFL in lieu of no promotion/relegation. That was 126 million pounds last year, and a similar amount now should support 3 million per Championship team, 1.5 million per League 1 team and 750 thousand per League 2 team. It may not be enough, but it is a substantial start to helping these clubs survive a major loss of income. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Surfer

[Wilson 62]

What happens when a club’s leading goal scorer , who’s wife has an underlying health condition, refuses to play?

The clubs chances to win games reduces significantly.

The integrity of the competition is then affected.

 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

8 hours ago, Surfer said:

We are confused Bill. 
 

It is clear that the PL could (and in their opinion must) play the remaining games to secure the revenues that the PL clubs budgeted for. And that could entail games without spectators, just TV coverage. 
 

But the EFL clubs almost saw exclusively rely on their match day income. There is no way the government will allow spectators at football matches for the foreseeable future, so the questions become - how do we reduce our expenses, and can we obtain new funding? 
 

Reducing expenses means furlough / layoffs and releasing players from contracts on June 30 (or before) and not signing anyone else until the start of next season. Also ideally not traveling to away games and not hosting home games as it’s all expense. Finding new revenue is almost impossible as PL teams typically don’t buy EFL players and most EFL teams will have no money. 
 

So one proposal I have advocated for is to utilize the normal parachute payments of the three relegated PL teams as support payment to the EFL in lieu of no promotion/relegation. That was 126 million pounds last year, and a similar amount now should support 3 million per Championship team, 1.5 million per League 1 team and 750 thousand per League 2 team. It may not be enough, but it is a substantial start to helping these clubs survive a major loss of income. 

Excellent post, Surfer. The Premier League - or at least some clubs – want to complete the season for their own financial stability, which is understandable, although the recent estimates of how much they would have to pay up to the TV companies in the event of non-completion  are as low as £150m.  Not nothing but probably manageable.

There is an argument that the PL season must be played to a finish so that some TV money can be paid the clubs down the pyramid, to keep them afloat. I am not sure about that, for two reasons.

Firstly, there is the question of how much money does trickle down. At random I looked at the accounts for Rotherham Town. Their turnover last season was £13m, but only £287,000 came from ‘media’. Of course if a club is not getting its usual match-day income then anything is welcome.

But the bigger or at least much more immediate question is timing. This from a David Conn piece in The Guardian on Friday:

After [sports minister] Dowden spoke up in parliament, more than one senior football executive told the Guardian this week they felt uneasy, as if the government needs some good news, some entertainment for the masses, and that lies behind their desire to get the Premier League playing “as soon as possible”. Dowden said in parliament that this would “help release resources through the rest of the system”, but the EFL is understood to be baffled by that, as no more money will go down the football pyramid NOW [my emphasis] if the Premier League starts playing again.

As I read that Conn is saying that the money would arrive too late. Presumably once the season was finished, which now cannot be before late July, and might even be August, if the FA Cup is played. By which time some of these clubs will have gone to the wall. They will not be there to be saved.

Which is why, as I have been saying for nigh on two months now, the government, the football authorities, TV companies, sponsors etc have to get together now to agree a rescue package, and implement it well before June 30. The urgency in general because clubs have outgoings but in effect no income and specifically because there are 800 players out of contact at the end of June.

The Mail had a piece on Friday saying such talks had started. I do hope with sufficient urgency. And one proposal they certainly should consider is yours of using what  in your scenario would be unused parachute payments to secure the finances of the rest of the pyramid. Leagues One and Two are never going to complete, and probably not the Championship either.

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by PurpleCanary

[Daz Sparks 1,149]

On 02/05/2020 at 09:10, Well b back said:

Neutral grounds and up to 40,000 tests for players and staff will be required if the English Premier League's plans to play the 92 outstanding games behind closed doors are pursued.

That testing figure indicates that there will be 434 people tested per game, I am not convinced that is anywhere near enough tests.

 

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

18 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Excellent post, Surfer. The Premier League - or at least some clubs – want to complete the season for their own financial stability, which is understandable, although the recent estimates of how much they would have to pay up to the TV companies in the event of non-completion  are as low as £150m.  Not nothing but probably manageable.

 

There is an argument that the PL season must be played to a finish so that some TV money can be paid the clubs down the pyramid, to keep them afloat. I am not sure about that, for two reasons.

 

Firstly, there is the question of how much money does trickle down. At random I looked at the accounts for Rotherham Town. Their turnover last season was £13m, but only £287,000 came from ‘media’. Of course if a club is not getting its usual match-day income then anything is welcome.

But the bigger or at least much more immediate question is timing. This from a David Conn piece in The Guardian on Friday:

 

After [sports minister] Dowden spoke up in parliament, more than one senior football executive told the Guardian this week they felt uneasy, as if the government needs some good news, some entertainment for the masses, and that lies behind their desire to get the Premier League playing “as soon as possible”. Dowden said in parliament that this would “help release resources through the rest of the system”, but the EFL is understood to be baffled by that, as no more money will go down the football pyramid NOW [my emphasis] now if the Premier League starts playing again.

 

As I read that Conn is saying that the money would arrive too late. Presumably once the season was finished, which now cannot be before late July, and might even be August, if the FA Cup is played. By which time some of these clubs will have gone to the wall. They will not be there to be saved.

 

Which is why, as I have been saying for nigh on two months now, the government, the football authorities, TV companies, sponsors etc have to get together now to agree a rescue package, and implement it well before June 30. The urgency in general because clubs have outgoings but in effect no income and specifically because there are 800 players out of contact at the end of June.

 

The Mail had a piece on Friday saying such talks had started. I do hope with sufficient urgency. And one proposal they certainly should consider is yours of using what  in your scenario would be unused parachute payments to secure the finances of the rest of the pyramid. Leagues One and Two are never going to complete, and probably not the Championship either.

 

 

Great post Purple.

The way money trickles down in the main is through transfers from lower league teams, like we had done with the lad from Coventry.

One of the bigger areas where the lower leagues get support is with the loan system, guess if there is less money then teams may have to use their own pool of players better but when clubs like Chelsea loan out enough players for 2 teams I'm not sure how much that will get impacted as they still have big squads.

Plus players will get released and will need teams so that actually benefits some clubs as there will be lots to choose from.

[JF 694]

 

[Hairy Canary 668]

That’s two teams who have gone public with their opposition to neutral venues. Five more and there is a likelihood of it not happening.  How many others near the bottom of the table are saying the same thing in private. No relegation to be the sweetener to make it happen?

[Hillhead 114]

2 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

That’s two teams who have gone public with their opposition to neutral venues. Five more and there is a likelihood of it not happening.  How many others near the bottom of the table are saying the same thing in private. No relegation to be the sweetener to make it happen?

I wonder if it's heading that way. Will be helped by the Championship not finishing at all.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

Just now, Hairy Canary said:

That’s two teams who have gone public with their opposition to neutral venues. Five more and there is a likelihood of it not happening.  How many others near the bottom of the table are saying the same thing in private. No relegation to be the sweetener to make it happen?

I think a growing possibility is that enough PL clubs will make completing the season under the absurd proposed conditions dependent on no clubs being relegated. If the clubs at the top want it to establish the European places then fine, but only that.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

The EPL has to take no cognisance of the EFL. If it decides no relegation then there is very little that can be done.

It stinks because as we have been saying all along its about the CL spots and that only.

[Well b back 3,190]

This to me puts it all into perspective. If the PL can get PPE should they not be donating it to doctors, nurses and carers rather than using football as modern day gladiators

UK doctors 'at the mercy' of PPE donations

Nearly half of doctors have sourced their own personal protective equipment (PPE) because of a lack of availability through normal NHS channels, according to a survey of front-line staff.

The British Medical Association (BMA) survey of more than 16,000 doctors found that, although PPE supplies have improved, more needs to be done to protect them.

“This does not suggest that we have got the sort of protection that we need,” BMA chairman Dr Chaand Nagpaul told BBC Breakfast.

“At the moment we are at the mercy of donations or purchasing them. That doesn’t give you security.

“And it hasn’t met the government’s own commitment and promise that it will be protecting its workforce.”

The sport I love would come out of this with a shining light rather than despised my many if they put these issues before playing football.

[JF 694]

 

[king canary 7,578]

4 minutes ago, JF said:

 

There is also the delay benefitting certain teams. Spurs for instance were expecting to play out the season without Kane or Son, yet due to this delay they may have them back. How do you take that into account?