9th June d Day for PL

[JF 694]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

The problem is that as I understand it (although I am not quite sure how accurate this is or how it came to pass) any solution arrived at by the premier league also has to be approved by the football league. Would they ever agree to that?

14 out of 20 PL votes would be needed I believe. Efl and EPL are different entities and as neither league would have concluded any of its promotion or relegation places the EPL are not likely to vote to relegate 3 of its members that all own an equal share and not mathematically relegated to promote 3 teams they have no obligation to that are not mathematically promoted.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Instead of standing outside Anfield with a placard, why not tell the relatives of all the deceased that it would be unfair on Liverpool. Apart from Liverpool and their supporters, the rest of football  and more importantly, those who don' t give a toss abour Football couldn' t care less about their feelings.

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

A point that seems to get forgotten is that if the season is scrapped we lose the chance to get to our first FA Cup final, the winning of which would qualify us for the Europa Leage (assuming there is such a thing as next season).

[sonyc 5,517]

5 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

A point that seems to get forgotten is that if the season is scrapped we lose the chance to get to our first FA Cup final, the winning of which would qualify us for the Europa Leage (assuming there is such a thing as next season).

Then at least we can say we are hard done by when we don't get relegated. We cry a poor tale 😉

Edited April 28, 2020 by sonyc

[JF 694]

6 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

A point that seems to get forgotten is that if the season is scrapped we lose the chance to get to our first FA Cup final, the winning of which would qualify us for the Europa Leage (assuming there is such a thing as next season).

Yes that is a massive shame as I think we had a chance, but if this season carries on and we progress in the cup we face playing the FA cup final at Wembley or worse Burton with no crowd. 

[JF 694]

Also worth pointing out as France has banned football till September what happens with the champions league now?? 

[sgncfc 1,227]

There is not, and never has been, any possibility whatsoever that null and void would be the option chosen by the EPL. That has effectively been ruled out for some time. The most likely way of determining the final table if the season cannot be completed will be average points per game, including some kind of coefficient to take into account home games, opposition, current form etc. Whichever way they decide Norwich will be bottom.

What the EPL then has to decide is if they will go ahead with relegation and inviting EFL teams to replace them. This one is more difficult for NCFC. Clearly Leeds would be a big draw for the TV companies next season. It might be one up and one down, leaving any potential challenges to be made by clubs without any money to take action, namely Norwich and a few Champs teams without a very strong case.

I can see 14 teams voting for that. I can't see 14 teams voting for no relegation. More importantly, I can't see Sky going for no relegation either.

[JF 694]

4 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

There is not, and never has been, any possibility whatsoever that null and void would be the option chosen by the EPL. That has effectively been ruled out for some time. The most likely way of determining the final table if the season cannot be completed will be average points per game, including some kind of coefficient to take into account home games, opposition, current form etc. Whichever way they decide Norwich will be bottom.

What the EPL then has to decide is if they will go ahead with relegation and inviting EFL teams to replace them. This one is more difficult for NCFC. Clearly Leeds would be a big draw for the TV companies next season. It might be one up and one down, leaving any potential challenges to be made by clubs without any money to take action, namely Norwich and a few Champs teams without a very strong case.

I can see 14 teams voting for that. I can't see 14 teams voting for no relegation. More importantly, I can't see Sky going for no relegation either.

Tony Bloom the Brighton chairman has said he see’s no chance that the PL will relegate on a Ppg decision. It would open up the way for the clubs relegated to take legal action.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/04/18/brighton-owner-believes-relegation-premier-league-should-scrapped/

 

 

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

3 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

There is not, and never has been, any possibility whatsoever that null and void would be the option chosen by the EPL. That has effectively been ruled out for some time. The most likely way of determining the final table if the season cannot be completed will be average points per game, including some kind of coefficient to take into account home games, opposition, current form etc. Whichever way they decide Norwich will be bottom.

What the EPL then has to decide is if they will go ahead with relegation and inviting EFL teams to replace them. This one is more difficult for NCFC. Clearly Leeds would be a big draw for the TV companies next season. It might be one up and one down, leaving any potential challenges to be made by clubs without any money to take action, namely Norwich and a few Champs teams without a very strong case.

I can see 14 teams voting for that. I can't see 14 teams voting for no relegation. More importantly, I can't see Sky going for no relegation either.

If they did that they can expect to be sued by us and the club would definitely proceed.

A more likely proposal would be a sweetener from the PL to accept this to avoid the legal case.

You cannot just target one club when the league rules are 3 down and 3 up, to do anything other would be extremely stupid both from a legal and moral perspective.

Plus clubs who wanted to sue would get their costs back so the money side is irrelevant unless there was no chance of winning.

[ricardo 7,385]

https://www.football.london/premier-league/fifa-chief-issues-statement-ending-18164375

[JF 694]

2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

https://www.football.london/premier-league/fifa-chief-issues-statement-ending-18164375

The government and PL and progressing with their fingers in their ears..

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, sgncfc said:

There is not, and never has been, any possibility whatsoever that null and void would be the option chosen by the EPL. That has effectively been ruled out for some time. The most likely way of determining the final table if the season cannot be completed will be average points per game, including some kind of coefficient to take into account home games, opposition, current form etc. Whichever way they decide Norwich will be bottom.

What the EPL then has to decide is if they will go ahead with relegation and inviting EFL teams to replace them. This one is more difficult for NCFC. Clearly Leeds would be a big draw for the TV companies next season. It might be one up and one down, leaving any potential challenges to be made by clubs without any money to take action, namely Norwich and a few Champs teams without a very strong case.

I can see 14 teams voting for that. I can't see 14 teams voting for no relegation. More importantly, I can't see Sky going for no relegation either.

The most unsatisfactory option of all, least defensible.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Van wink

[ricardo 7,385]

32 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

 

I can see 14 teams voting for that. I can't see 14 teams voting for no relegation. More importantly, I can't see Sky going for no relegation either.

This will be overtaken by events.

[City 2nd 191]

4 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

I actually mentioned other sports as well.

How long do you propose this lockdown in it's present form should continue before attempts at relaxation are made? The resumption of organised sport, one way or another, does not necessarily amount to a free for all.

We are,after all permitted one hour's exercise each day.I use that hour. It is good for my morale. 

I'd rather it be organised in a sensible manner rather than having to witness the all too frequent examples, both personally and in the press, of restrictions being ignored.

I am sure that we all have sympathy for the diseased and their relatives but we cannot presume to  speak for them all.

It has nothing to do with how long I think restrictions of lockdown in its present form should last! This Govt from tonight’s briefing alone state they will not give details of lifting any restrictions until the numbers of those infected and those who die are much lower! 

In the news today we hear that Germany, who have already begun to relax restrictions, have suffered a rise in both those equative numbers, so I simply do not see any relaxation of lockdown soon, and there can be little doubt that the Govt are very organized in their manifestations. 

I don’t see restriction are being ignored generally, but for sure start any sport and the population will say to themselves what’s good enough for them (sports groups) will be good enough for me.

i have the deepest sympathy for those suffering as a result of covid 19, but I speak for myself, and sport I do not see as a moral buster at all, totally the opposite.

[JF 694]

5 minutes ago, ricardo said:

This will be overtaken by events.

whilst other countries governments are making decisions that allowing football to be played is against the interests of public health, ours very much appear to be ploughing on with the getting it back to boost public morale mantra. I honestly think they will give this nonsense of the 3 venue plan the go ahead. 

Edited April 28, 2020 by JF

[City 2nd 191]

24 minutes ago, JF said:

The government and PL and progressing with their fingers in their ears..

And their heads up their ar*es!

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

Just now, City 2nd said:

And their heads up their ar*es!

As always.

Interesting that its come from FIFA medical chief directly.

Will be interesting to see what happens if the worst case scenario happens and PL goes against this advise, leave the door wide open for all sorts of problems.

[sonyc 5,517]

8 minutes ago, JF said:

whilst other countries governments are making decisions that allowing football to be played is against the interests of public health, ours very much appear to be ploughing on with the getting it back to boost public morale mantra. I honestly think they will give this nonsense of the 3 venue plan the go ahead. 

Maybe they have one of their 5 point plans...

[Making Plans 936]

A very interesting piece by the Editor In Cheif of the Racing Post. For Racing, read Football.

More than 20,000 British citizens have lost their lives to the coronavirus. Sadly, many thousands more are destined to be claimed in the coming weeks and months.

Racing, like all other sports, has ceased. There is no prospect of it resuming during the current phase of the lockdown which prohibits all but essential activities and has effectively brought normal life, and the economy, to a standstill in order to try to combat the spread of the virus. 

In common with all of our readers and everyone in the sport, the Racing Post is desperate to see racing resume. A number of things are required if that is to happen. 

First and foremost, the rate of infection with the coronavirus among the general population must be slowed considerably and there needs to be clear evidence that the health services can provide treatment for the volume of patients who can be expected to require ongoing critical care.

Second, the government must decide that it has seen sufficient improvement to enable it to ease the restrictions which currently outlaw gatherings of more than two people unless they are from the same family, and require us all to stay at home other than for limited exceptions. 

Third, racing must persuade government medical experts, officials and ministers that it has developed protocols and procedures which would allow the sport to resume behind closed doors in a way which would pose no additional risk to the health of the participants or the wider public.

That in turn means that there is a fourth hurdle to be jumped – society must give 'permission' for racing to resume. In that context, it will be helpful if racing can enjoy 'air cover' in the form of other sports announcing their return at the same time. Anyone who doubts that need only look at the cafes, restaurants offering takeaway meals, and builders who continued to operate in the initial phase of the lockdown but were subsequently forced to close under a storm of protest. 

Unfortunately there is a constituency within the sport that believes racing should be free to do what it likes when it likes. Some of this group are the same people who dismissed, and in some instances continue to dismiss, the coronavirus as "just like the 'flu".

Be in no doubt that unless there is acceptance among the wider public that racing behind closed doors carries no additional risk, there will be no resumption. 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Making Plans

[City 2nd 191]

1 minute ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

As always.

Interesting that its come from FIFA medical chief directly.

Will be interesting to see what happens if the worst case scenario happens and PL goes against this advise, leave the door wide open for all sorts of problems.

Like Ricardo, I simply cannot see Boris and his Govt persisting with some form of social distancing until numbers are lower and yet allowing football to proceed.

every major sporting event and concert scheduled this summer has been postponed, the chairman of the IOC is stating there will be no olympics next year if a  vaccine is not forthcoming prior to the games.

can you imagine the panic should one member on any team, or a required attendee at any match, gets covid 19. There would be an absolute outrage for Boris to face.

 

should the PL go against any decision taken it will show those league members are thinking of only one thing other than peoples welfare. Money!

[Jim Smith 2,317]

58 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

There is not, and never has been, any possibility whatsoever that null and void would be the option chosen by the EPL. That has effectively been ruled out for some time. The most likely way of determining the final table if the season cannot be completed will be average points per game, including some kind of coefficient to take into account home games, opposition, current form etc. Whichever way they decide Norwich will be bottom.

What the EPL then has to decide is if they will go ahead with relegation and inviting EFL teams to replace them. This one is more difficult for NCFC. Clearly Leeds would be a big draw for the TV companies next season. It might be one up and one down, leaving any potential challenges to be made by clubs without any money to take action, namely Norwich and a few Champs teams without a very strong case.

I can see 14 teams voting for that. I can't see 14 teams voting for no relegation. More importantly, I can't see Sky going for no relegation either.

You cannot relegate teams of the basis of an incomplete season (certainly when not mathematically down anyway) and you cannot promote teams from the EFL without them completing their season either. Both or either would be manifestly unfair.

What seems to get ignored in this debate is that unlike Leeds and WBA (yet) we earnt the right to a full season in this league by winning the championship over a full, complete season. We also earnt the right to all of the financial rewards that brings and the payments that are due to us. To suggest we should be relegated without the opportunity to complete the season pus lose a large chunk of that income into the bargain whilst Leeds or WBA are concurrently handed a £100m windfall without actually winning their division is ridiculous.

[JF 694]

3 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

You cannot relegate teams of the basis of an incomplete season (certainly when not mathematically down anyway) and you cannot promote teams from the EFL without them completing their season either. Both or either would be manifestly unfair.

What seems to get ignored in this debate is that unlike Leeds and WBA (yet) we earnt the right to a full season in this league by winning the championship over a full, complete season. We also earnt the right to all of the financial rewards that brings and the payments that are due to us. To suggest we should be relegated without the opportunity to complete the season pus lose a large chunk of that income into the bargain whilst Leeds or WBA are concurrently handed a £100m windfall without actually winning their division is ridiculous.

Amen to that 👍

[pete 319]

Culture Secretary made positive comment re PL resumption cannot see the populist PM endorsing this idea as stated it would not be universally popular, only popular enough with a small minority,  Boris always has eye on main chance.  Don't think the EFL has even been considered.  And if Championship not completed cannot relegate.  Cannot see season being completed far too many obstacles main one being Covid 19 but also footballing ones including contracts and squads after June 30.

 

 

 

[Trevor Hockey's Beard 527]

1 hour ago, sgncfc said:

There is not, and never has been, any possibility whatsoever that null and void would be the option chosen by the EPL. That has effectively been ruled out for some time. The most likely way of determining the final table if the season cannot be completed will be average points per game, including some kind of coefficient to take into account home games, opposition, current form etc. Whichever way they decide Norwich will be bottom.

What the EPL then has to decide is if they will go ahead with relegation and inviting EFL teams to replace them. This one is more difficult for NCFC. Clearly Leeds would be a big draw for the TV companies next season. It might be one up and one down, leaving any potential challenges to be made by clubs without any money to take action, namely Norwich and a few Champs teams without a very strong case.

I can see 14 teams voting for that. I can't see 14 teams voting for no relegation. More importantly, I can't see Sky going for no relegation either.

This would be their dream result - keep Villa up and bring up Leeds. If this happens it will the final proof that the EPL is corrupt and not fit for purpose.

[Well b back 3,203]

Germany begin to ease their measures, now cases are coming at a rate of over the R of 1. They are about to announce the bringing back of a number of lockdown measures. They reckon if they don’t their hospitals will be overwhelmed by the end of May.

Wonder what that does for the return of the Bundesliga.

 

[king canary 7,605]

1 hour ago, sgncfc said:

There is not, and never has been, any possibility whatsoever that null and void would be the option chosen by the EPL. That has effectively been ruled out for some time. The most likely way of determining the final table if the season cannot be completed will be average points per game, including some kind of coefficient to take into account home games, opposition, current form etc. Whichever way they decide Norwich will be bottom.

What the EPL then has to decide is if they will go ahead with relegation and inviting EFL teams to replace them. This one is more difficult for NCFC. Clearly Leeds would be a big draw for the TV companies next season. It might be one up and one down, leaving any potential challenges to be made by clubs without any money to take action, namely Norwich and a few Champs teams without a very strong case.

I can see 14 teams voting for that. I can't see 14 teams voting for no relegation. More importantly, I can't see Sky going for no relegation either.

The chances of this happening are less than zero. 

They could maybe try and make an argument for relegating two teams and taking up Leeds and West Brom. There is no remotely reasonable basis for arguing that only one team goes up, especially when that team is a whole 1 point ahead of the second place team.

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

As always.

Interesting that its come from FIFA medical chief directly.

Will be interesting to see what happens if the worst case scenario happens and PL goes against this advise, leave the door wide open for all sorts of problems.

Absolutely RT, there is no way they will go against that advice, its never been a realistic option, just a slow move towards the inevitable. Someone else to blame too.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

There is only one option that is fair to ALL. And that is null and void. If we have to genuflect to the top 6 of the EPL then why even bother being in it.

I couldn't care less if we are relegated. Our chances of staying up were slim and probably confirmed if we have to play every other day in a strange place.

But there is any amount of ways to try and manage this crisis and that is the problem. Whichever quasi Duckworth Lewis you try and use, you end up creating more.

[sgncfc 1,227]

52 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

You cannot relegate teams of the basis of an incomplete season (certainly when not mathematically down anyway) and you cannot promote teams from the EFL without them completing their season either. Both or either would be manifestly unfair.

Of course they can. The EFL is just a company with 20 members - if 14 of them vote to do something, it's done. Fairness has got nothing to do with it. What they have to decide amongst themselves is what any repercussions might be - specifically the possibility of legal action, So, if they relegate Norwich and only promote Leeds and sweeten the pill by giving £50m each to us and West Brom and another £50m to the teams from 3rd to 10th in the Champs to share, would that be fairer?

[JF 694]

30 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Of course they can. The EFL is just a company with 20 members - if 14 of them vote to do something, it's done. Fairness has got nothing to do with it. What they have to decide amongst themselves is what any repercussions might be - specifically the possibility of legal action, So, if they relegate Norwich and only promote Leeds and sweeten the pill by giving £50m each to us and West Brom and another £50m to the teams from 3rd to 10th in the Champs to share, would that be fairer?

 Hilarious. Won’t happen. So what you’re saying is to avoid legal action they will vote to relegate one of their members that haven’t been mathematically relegated and in their place promote a non member that hasn’t been mathematically promoted and then pay everyone off? Just run that through your head before replying

Edited April 28, 2020 by JF