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A Load of Squit

Safe, sensible hands guiding the club

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9 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I actually reflected over a cuppa earlier and wonder whether the club is waiting for a few other clubs to make a move with requesting pay cuts to set the precedent and, to apply public pressure to our own players. 

But, the flaw in that is that this would be far more believable if the executive team had made the first move and shown themselves keen to make a personal sacrifice. Players won't if the execs don't. 

It is possible that some of us are jumping the gun a little bit with criticism and should wait and see how it plays out, although it is equally possible that some are being way too defensive of the club and players when the situation could deteriorate rapidly.

I guess its a case of waiting to see how this plays out now. Another consideration is perhaps uncertainty over whether there will be a Sky clawback and the extent/level of that clawback. Clubs could be too quick to move to request a pay cut or deferral of x amount, agree it with the PFA or with club captains, but then have to go back and ask for more as they'd be requesting a figure based on an underestimated financial impact. Likewise, players may want to see if the financial impact has been overstated and don't want to commit to a sacrifice until they are certain it is necessary to protect the wider industry. 

Or in short, people on both sides of the debate have set their stall out too early on this forum as the situation is still a developing one with too much uncertainty. 

Maybe. Or maybe the club acted too precipitously and have made the situation even worse by sending out Ben Kensall to talk absolute pony to the media about already spending £125m. Seriously, if he is in charge of our finances the club is in a lot of trouble.

As our government is proving, PR and media management now consists of feeding misleading information and denying it if you're caught out. As NCFC don't have a local press which is prepared to challenge them I guess we'll never actually know.

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Maybe. Or maybe the club acted too precipitously and have made the situation even worse by sending out Ben Kensall to talk absolute pony to the media about already spending £125m. Seriously, if he is in charge of our finances the club is in a lot of trouble.

As our government is proving, PR and media management now consists of feeding misleading information and denying it if you're caught out. As NCFC don't have a local press which is prepared to challenge them I guess we'll never actually know.

I did point out above that every FTSE 100 company that has confirmed they have furloughed some employees have seen their executives take voluntary pay cuts. That's from The Guardian. 

That is the thing I can't even begin to try and defend or find reason for, the failure of our execs to cut their salary while taking taxpayers money. I can't see how that is anything other than indefensible, and it looks as if it isn't typical at all in UK business (thankfully). 

Who actually is in charge of the finances now? I mean, Steve Stone was an experienced Finance Director with an economics degree and a background in audit. 

We had Ben Dack  as CFO for a short period but he left in February, he worked under Stone.  

It isn't Ben Kensell surely, as he has a background in events management and I initially thought he was more  for general day to day operations stuff. 

Do we have a Finance Director or CFO now? Surely a £100m+ business would have? 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

How do you know all this stuff about the other people you are judging?

Do you have good reason to doubt the veracity? 

What piece of information specifically? 

It was announced at the AGM in November that Ben Dack would be leaving the club in February 2020, were you not there? Or were you not listening? 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Do you have good reason to doubt the veracity? 

Most of that information has been published on the club website in press releases or bio's! 

I have no idea. But I wouldn't be comfortable attacking individuals in the way you are. 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I have no idea. But I wouldn't be comfortable attacking individuals in the way you are. 

I'm perfectly comfortable querying why the club has taken furlough money without executives taking a pay cut, because as The Guardian have acknowledged - that doesn't seem to be the case with most businesses furloughing staff. 

And perfectly comfortable questioning whether we have employed finance director or CFO to replace Ben Dack, who left two months ago, do you know the answer? Its a relevant question, as you'd think it would be that individual responsible for financial forecasting and identifying cash flow issues. 

I don't know if that is supposed to be Ben Kensell, that was suggested by another poster, if you think I'm attacking him does that mean that it is indeed him? I would just consider that to be odd considering his prior experience. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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I've got no idea. Has Ben Dack left? I knew he was leaving. When you found he'd left did you also find if anyone took over? 

I am not comfortable judging other peoples personal finances. You obviously are. So how do you know all this stuff about them?

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I thought nepotism Tom was taking a more active role in the running of the club after Dack left 

he bought a new abacus and learned his 4 times table and everything to prepare for it 

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7 hours ago, sgncfc said:

Maybe. Or maybe the club acted too precipitously and have made the situation even worse by sending out Ben Kensall to talk absolute pony to the media about already spending £125m. Seriously, if he is in charge of our finances the club is in a lot of trouble.

As our government is proving, PR and media management now consists of feeding misleading information and denying it if you're caught out. As NCFC don't have a local press which is prepared to challenge them I guess we'll never actually know.

Very obvious to me that the club has done this to prepare the ground for what might come, most probably asking season ticket holders not to take rebates or to try and minimise any adverse fan reaction to any sales that they may make. It’s pretty consistent with recent PR strategy. They are getting the worst case scenario out there I to fans consciousness so it almost becomes fact in some people’s mind even if the figures are not really terribly accurate. 

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1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

Very obvious to me that the club has done this to prepare the ground for what might come, most probably asking season ticket holders not to take rebates or to try and minimise any adverse fan reaction to any sales that they may make. It’s pretty consistent with recent PR strategy. They are getting the worst case scenario out there I to fans consciousness so it almost becomes fact in some people’s mind even if the figures are not really terribly accurate. 

One mans 'open and honest' is another mans 'PR' with 'not terribly accurate' figures. 🙂

 

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8 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I'm perfectly comfortable querying why the club has taken furlough money without executives taking a pay cut, because as The Guardian have acknowledged - that doesn't seem to be the case with most businesses furloughing staff. 

And perfectly comfortable questioning whether we have employed finance director or CFO to replace Ben Dack, who left two months ago, do you know the answer? Its a relevant question, as you'd think it would be that individual responsible for financial forecasting and identifying cash flow issues. 

I don't know if that is supposed to be Ben Kensell, that was suggested by another poster, if you think I'm attacking him does that mean that it is indeed him? I would just consider that to be odd considering his prior experience. 

Ben Dack left on 28th February and was immediately replaced by Samuel Hall.

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9 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Has Ben Dack left? So how do you know all this stuff about them?

I read the website of the club that I support, and the website that I am writing on right now? 

Both stated that Ben Dack was leaving in February, when it was announced in November. 

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45 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Ben Dack left on 28th February and was immediately replaced by Samuel Hall.

I'd never heard of him before, but Sam Hall is listed as the clubs in-house solicitor so I highly doubt he was the replacement for our CFO. 

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6 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I'd never heard of him before, but Sam Hall is listed as the clubs in-house solicitor so I highly doubt he was the replacement for our CFO. 

Ben Dack was appointed Company secretary in August 2017 and resigned on 28th February 2020 and was replaced as Company Secretary by Samuel Hall on 28th February 2020.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Ben Dack was appointed Company secretary in August 2017 and resigned on 28th February 2020 and was replaced as Company Secretary by Samuel Hall on 28th February 2020.

Ben Dack had a dual role as Company Secretary and CFO.

Sam Hall now has a dual role as Company Secretary and Club Solicitor, having previously just been the Club Solictor. 

A CFO and an in-house Solicitor are very different things. 

I didn't want to know who had become our Club Secretary, I want to know who is acting as our CFO or Finance Director. 

In the absence of one, are we paying a third party as a contractor perhaps? Or is it Ben Kensall who has no prior experience in accounting or finance? Its a valid question, the former wouldn't overly concern me but the latter would and should you! 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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That could well be absolutely true but Company Secretary may transcend professions. Dack is a finance man, Hall a legal man.

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As this appears to be of great concern to you two who has their hands on the financial rudder may i suggest sending an e-mail to ben.kensell@canaries.co.uk and i am positive he will be delighted to respond.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

As this appears to be of great concern to you two who has their hands on the financial rudder may i suggest sending an e-mail to ben.kensell@canaries.co.uk and i am positive he will be delighted to respond.

If only there was an independent supporters organisation with some teeth who could tackle these issues head, hold the club to account on and ask these probing questions.

We could call it the Norwich City Independent Supporters Association, or NCISA for short. 

Perhaps sgncfc or some other grown up who pays close attention to club affairs and understands the world of business could lead it. With the right leadership I think a group like that could be reasonably successful. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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5 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

If only there was an independent supporters organisation with some teeth who could tackle these issues head, hold the club to account on and ask these probing questions.

We could call it the Norwich City Independent Supporters Association, or NCISA for short. 

Perhaps sgncfc or some other grown up who pays close attention to club affairs and understands the world of business could lead it. With the right leadership I think a group like that could be reasonably successful. 

Go for it. The Devil makes work  for idle hands .

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TVB - As you are an expert on all things financial could you answer the following questions for me please:

Which FTSE 100 Companies have furloughed  their staff

What business sector are they in and how do they compare to the business sector Norwich City are in

What salaries and bonuses do they pay their executives and how do these compare to bonuses/salaries paid to Norwich City  executives

Are the executives of these FTSE 100 companies actually taking a pay cut or are they foregoing bonuses etc

I really need to know before I can even start to be outraged at Norwich City.

And a final question, is Norwich City remaining in business more important than virtue signalling or is it the other way round?........

 

 

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28 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

If only there was an independent supporters organisation with some teeth who could tackle these issues head, hold the club to account on and ask these probing questions.

We could call it the Norwich City Independent Supporters Association, or NCISA for short. 

Perhaps sgncfc or some other grown up who pays close attention to club affairs and understands the world of business could lead it. With the right leadership I think a group like that could be reasonably successful. 

Or you could just do what Til said, and e-mail him yourself. I understand he's pretty decent when it comes to replying to fan queries. Then you'd get an answer at least.

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

If only there was an independent supporters organisation with some teeth who could tackle these issues head, hold the club to account on and ask these probing questions.

We could call it the Norwich City Independent Supporters Association, or NCISA for short. 

Perhaps sgncfc or some other grown up who pays close attention to club affairs and understands the world of business could lead it. With the right leadership I think a group like that could be reasonably successful. 

So obviously e-mailing Ben Kensell was a step to far for you but if it is a supporters organisation you are looking for could i suggest the Canaries Trust as their slogan is ' a stronger voice together '. You will find that their chairman is a former chairman of NCISA as is their secretary. Should be a good starting point for you i would have thought ?

As an alternative ask that new poster insider or whatever his name is as he started a thread about NCFC not paying bills which will add weight to your thought that a business with a turnover in excess of £100 million has nobody with any financial nous or relevant qualifications overseeing it. He obviously has a finger on the pulse.

Edited by TIL 1010

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43 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

TVB - As you are an expert on all things financial could you answer the following questions for me please:

Which FTSE 100 Companies have furloughed  their staff

What business sector are they in and how do they compare to the business sector Norwich City are in

What salaries and bonuses do they pay their executives and how do these compare to bonuses/salaries paid to Norwich City  executives

Are the executives of these FTSE 100 companies actually taking a pay cut or are they foregoing bonuses etc

I really need to know before I can even start to be outraged at Norwich City.

And a final question, is Norwich City remaining in business more important than virtue signalling or is it the other way round?........

 

 

I'm intrigued, which part of this is virtue signalling to you?

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1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I read the website of the club that I support, and the website that I am writing on right now? 

Both stated that Ben Dack was leaving in February, when it was announced in November. 

Did they state when his position was advertised? 

I did apply but they said they needed "accountant types" and I was a "bog cleaner type".

That rather put my nose out of joint. Does anyone here know the difference between an "accountant type" and a "bog cleaner type"?

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Does anyone here know the difference between an "accountant type" and a "bog cleaner type"?

Probably about £100 pound an hour?💲💲

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2 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Does anyone here know the difference between an "accountant type" and a "bog cleaner type"?

Probably about £100 pound an hour?💲💲

Oh wow!

I obviously took a wrong turn in the road at some point.

Lend us a quid Essex💷

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15 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm intrigued, which part of this is virtue signalling to you?

I do not think the club is virtue signalling at all. The suggestion seems to be that I and other fans should be outraged at the way the club is handling things, my question is really about what is more important, survival of the club or doing things that appease this outrage but puts the clubs future in jeopardy.......

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1 minute ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

I do not think the club is virtue signalling at all. The suggestion seems to be that I and other fans should be outraged at the way the club is handling things, my question is really about what is more important, survival of the club or doing things that appease this outrage but puts the clubs future in jeopardy.......

Do you think talking about player wage deferrals/cuts is virtue signalling? Or executive pay? Those will likely be a key part of any financial solutions should the worst of these figures become true.

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