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Safe, sensible hands guiding the club

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8 hours ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

Very small womb broom

😁 haven’t heard that before

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2 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

😁 haven’t heard that before

In that case you should be pleased, I suppose.

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10 minutes ago, king canary said:
12 hours ago, hogesar said:

It's also no coincidence that the strong majority of people who are protesting these decisions have either been Anti-Delia or Anti-Webber (or both) but simply had little to cling onto. 

In my view the opposite is also true. Those who refuse to accept any criticism of the club or its owners are continuing down that path in the current situation.

I can't think of anyone that refuses to accept any criticism of the club.  No one is perfect and the club makes mistakes and we can all accept that. What is hard to accept is the blatant anti-club stuff that some people portray where they never have anything good to say about the club and that every single the club says or does or is achingly, obviously, negatively polarised and looking to try and show the club in a bad light.

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12 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I've already stated my position which is that I believe we need to bring an experienced executive alongside Webber, Ward and Kensell, somebody like an Alan Bowkett, and that while I think Webber deserves more time to develop the football side of this club, that trio have some a lot of naivety and shown their lack of experience over the past year on the business side.

 

There may be some merit in that idea.

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Posted (edited)

@LDC

I don't think that any supporter is  entirely happy with the Delia hegemony and the degree of discontent or otherwise varies in accord with the team's performance on the field of play.

I feel that more are, however, wary of what an alternative regime might have in store. Frightening or exciting ...take your pick.

It's nice having a team that bucks the trend and proffers self-sufficiency against all the odds. It's even nicer when this approach brings success. It's not good being the poor relations in perpetuity. It's not nice being a bit of a nonentity of a club as far as headline grabbing is concerned.I fell short of saying "joke of a club" as we clearly have a multitude of admirers.

I tend to bend with the wind over this matter. I suspect many others do as well.

I suppose this is just another way of extrapolating the old  mantra that in football you are only as good as your last result, or may it just be that, for the most part, we have more important things to concern ourselves with and it then becomes a question of priorities:-? 

94143992_957563161368272_759530692458577920_n.jpg

Edited by BroadstairsR

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13 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Well you've added the word "voluntary" to suit your agenda. 

I have used the word "voluntary" because it suits your agenda. You want people to voluntarily forgo their wages as if it were the norm which it isn't.

Let us see live up to the principles that you think others should follow. Set up a just giving page "TeemuVanBasten's voluntary fund for the govt." You and others that support you can go to the website and donate using their message board names, so that we can see that they have the courage of their convictions and not merely full of hot air. I have provided a link for you to help.

https://www.justgiving.com/start-fundraising

13 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Its cringeworthy seeing you put so much effort into defending these millionaires who think donating less than 0.3 percent of their annual salary to the NHS cuts the mustard.

This is quite useful as a guide as to how much you should contribute. As a graduate economist working for a bank (as you have told us before) a contribution in the region of a couple of hundred would be equivalent of the contribution that you think is inadequate for others. Obviously if you think that they should give say, 10%, you should give thousands. Or are you just generous with other peoples' money?

Personally, I don't believe charitable donations to fund the healthcare system of a country that has one of the largest economies in the world - I believe that the NHS should be funded properly at all times and not have to rely on charitable donations.

On 08/04/2020 at 10:48, TeemuVanBasten said:

I'm a subscriber to the Austrian school of economics by the way. Let bubbles pop, stop propping things up with funny money.

And let us not forget your real beliefs. "Let bubbles pop" says it all. You believe that recession you pretend to worry about is actually the cure and should not be avoided.

"The "recession" or "depression" is actually the process by which the economy adjusts to the wastes and errors of the monetary boom, and reestablishes efficient service of sustainable consumer desires... Debt liquidation and debt reduction is therefore the only solution ... getting even further into debt to spend the economy's way out of crisis - cannot logically be a solution to a crisis caused by too much debt" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_business_cycle_theory)

So why the crocodile tears for the economy and the recession that is likely? if you really believe Austrian School economic theory you will believe that the recession is curative, and that we should "stop propping things up with funny money."

 

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10 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Very small womb broom?

I wonder who taught TVB the "facts of life?" This suggests a fundamental misunderstanding of the equipment to which he euphemistically refers and one shudders to think about how he uses it in operation! 😱

Poor Mrs TVB 😭

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It's also no coincidence that the strong majority of people who are protesting these decisions have either been Anti-Delia or Anti-Webber (or both) but simply had little to cling onto. 

Not quite sure that is fair Hoggy. I think there is a great deal of love and respect for what Delia is and has done. For me, I think she is what a football owner should be. Believe me there are a lot out there who are jealous of our owner. She has also given the club a great deal of exposure that doesn't do any harm. She has been the consistency throughout our success.
I am unconvinced about Webber, or any CEO or Sporting Director. It isn't personal. He may well be a great person. The position he holds may be deemed necessary but I don't see him as anything different to a player or coach. If a better offer comes along, naturally, he will take and be pictured holding a scarf of that club above his head.
Delia isn't going to try and buy a different club. She is here for the duration. I can't imagine what it would be like to have a cold fish but obligatorily wealthy owner.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Badger said:

As a graduate economist working for a bank (as you have told us before)

If you are going to start lying I don't see any point in participating in a debate. 

I do work for a bank, like half a million other people in the UK, but nowhere have I said that I'm an econ grad or an economist.

If you have to resort to outright lies to try and score points then you've already lost the argument and any respect that I could reasonably be expected to still have for your point of view.  

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

If you are going to start lying I don't see any point in participating in a debate. 

I do work for a bank, like half a million other people in the UK, but nowhere have I said that I'm an econ grad or an economist.

If you have to resort to outright lies to try and score points then you've already lost the argument and any respect that I could reasonably be expected to still have for your point of view.  

You're the Guy that offers to help the old folk with the Cashpoint machines and when its quiet, checks the refils in the Biros on a chain so thoughtfully provided by the Loan Sharks, sorry, I mean Banks......and I claim my ' Webber Quote',  because if I claimed my £5 , by the time the Bank had charged handling fee, customer privilege fee and transaction fee, I'd have sod all left.

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53 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

If you are going to start lying I don't see any point in participating in a debate. 

I do work for a bank, like half a million other people in the UK, but nowhere have I said that I'm an econ grad or an economist.

If you have to resort to outright lies to try and score points then you've already lost the argument and any respect that I could reasonably be expected to still have for your point of view.  

So you are not an economics graduate - I'm totally shocked😂 it took some while but you have finally admitted it!

So when you said this it was total BS was it? Your a subscriber to the Austrian school of economics apparently - where did you pick this up from - The Sun or the Daily Mail, both of which give highly detailed accounts of the Austrian Economic school? I'm not aware of any study of Austrian economics below under-graduate level - would you care to elucidate? My guess is you won't. 

On 08/04/2020 at 10:48, TeemuVanBasten said:

I'm a subscriber to the Austrian school of economics by the way. Let bubbles pop, stop propping things up with funny money.

Of course, an alternative interpretation is that the faux outrage is merely an attempt to divert the questions you were asked 😁

Have you set up the just giving page yet? Or is it just others who should voluntarily give away their money?

Please explain how your desired option to "let bubbles pop" would preserve jobs in the current crisis, when the whole point of this statement is that bankruptcy and administration are the cure, not the problem? Please identify where the Austrian school advises that high worth individuals should give away their money as an act of solidarity?

My guess is that you won't because you can't and that you will use some form of diversionary tactic to avoid answering.

 

 

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Just to be clear and so that there is no misunderstanding I am, as you may have gathered, very much against the club deciding to use the furlough scheme. However, I have always been very supportive of our owners (whilst acknowledging their errors, I think everything they do is what they believe is for the good of the club) and think Stuart Webber and Daniel Farke are a breath of fresh air.

Yet they have made quite a few mistakes in my view - some of which are understandable and easily forgiveable. This one is neither.

I'm not calling for anyone's head, I just think this is a very poor piece of judgement - to be fair to TVB, it probably wouldn't have happened under Bowkett's watch and they do desperately need a figure of experience and gravitas to help them. (Yes, I would be happy to volunteer!)

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The focus should not just be on the players. They got us to where we are and to be honest by prem standards are not that highly paid so although I do think they should be taking cuts or deferrals so also should the other highly paid staff at the club. Also amongst that interview is the express statement that “the owners are no longer putting any money into the club” which I think is the first time that’s actually been said outright although we all know they haven’t done so for a long time.

if the club does start asking people to forego refunds then it will be interesting to see if the owners actually put in some money themselves to keep their main asset (which they have made clear they will hand to their nephew whether the fans like it or not) afloat or just rely on the fans to fund everything as has become the norm. 

 

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16 hours ago, Mello Yello said:
  8 hours ago, Mello Yello said:

Well I will most certainly be taking my refund/reimbursement if and when it's offered - and I won't feel one iota of personal guilt in doing so.....There are those involved in the higher/upper echelons of our club whom financially won't be out of pocket regardless of the future fate of NCFC.....

Badger sez: ......That's entirely your choice and right.

But realistically, do you expect players/ coaches etc to feel as much as we do about the club as we do? 

Realistically, you were correct that it is entirely my choice and right......I reiterate, I still won't feel one iota of personal guilt in doing so.....and I care about the players/coaches, probably as much as they care about me..... 
 
Our majority shareholding duo also feel as much as we do about the club......I wonder what their future financial intentions are?......
 
 

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Just to be clear and so that there is no misunderstanding I am, as you may have gathered, very much against the club deciding to use the furlough scheme. However, I have always been very supportive of our owners (whilst acknowledging their errors, I think everything they do is what they believe is for the good of the club) and think Stuart Webber and Daniel Farke are a breath of fresh air.

Yet they have made quite a few mistakes in my view - some of which are understandable and easily forgiveable. This one is neither.

I'm not calling for anyone's head, I just think this is a very poor piece of judgement - to be fair to TVB, it probably wouldn't have happened under Bowkett's watch and they do desperately need a figure of experience and gravitas to help them. (Yes, I would be happy to volunteer!)

If they need any advice on bog cleaning or bingo calling I would be happy to volunteer too.

Any others got specialist skills superior to those at our club? A team of volunteers from here could be our true saviours......

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

You're the Guy that offers to help the old folk with the Cashpoint machines

What if I was one of those guys? I'm not, but hasn't coronavirus taught people anything about not looking down at people for the job that they do? If I were one of those guys I'd be risking my health going out to work everyday as a keyworker for your benefit, bank branches are still open! 

You are one of those guys that looks down at supermarket checkout staff then? And minimum wage care workers? And street cleaners? And bin men? That comment reflects far worse on you than it does me. I've got nothing but respect for all these people out there putting themselves in harms way to keep society functioning, having to get on public transport and worry about what they may be taking home to their families at the end of their shifts. 

I've worked in factories, worked minimum wage retail, now doing pretty well for myself but never have I considered myself superior to somebody because of the job that they do. Everybody who works does so to pay the bills and feed their families. Truly appalled, shame on you. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Badger said:

So you are not an economics graduate - I'm totally shocked😂 it took some while but you have finally admitted it!

So when you said this it was total BS was it? Your a subscriber to the Austrian school of economics apparently - where did you pick this up from - The Sun or the Daily Mail, both of which give highly detailed accounts of the Austrian Economic school? I'm not aware of any study of Austrian economics below under-graduate level - would you care to elucidate? My guess is you won't. 

Of course, an alternative interpretation is that the faux outrage is merely an attempt to divert the questions you were asked 😁

Have you set up the just giving page yet? Or is it just others who should voluntarily give away their money?

Please explain how your desired option to "let bubbles pop" would preserve jobs in the current crisis, when the whole point of this statement is that bankruptcy and administration are the cure, not the problem? Please identify where the Austrian school advises that high worth individuals should give away their money as an act of solidarity?

My guess is that you won't because you can't and that you will use some form of diversionary tactic to avoid answering.

Badger, you must have missed the bit where I said I've got no interest in debating with a liar, I'm not reading these big walls of text so stop wasting your time creating them. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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42 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Badger, you must have missed the bit where I said I've got no interest in debating with a liar, I'm not reading these big walls of text so stop wasting your time creating them. 

 

2 hours ago, Badger said:

Have you set up the just giving page yet? Or is it just others who should voluntarily give away their money?

Please explain how your desired option to "let bubbles pop" would preserve jobs in the current crisis, when the whole point of this statement is that bankruptcy and administration are the cure, not the problem? Please identify where the Austrian school advises that high worth individuals should give away their money as an act of solidarity?

My guess is that you won't because you can't and that you will use some form of diversionary tactic to avoid answering.

As I suspected and predicted!

You are not interested in debating because you don't have a clue what you are talking about!:classic_laugh: 

You are just trying to find any excuse you can to avoid debate because you know that can't justify what you say. 

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Badger said:

 

As I suspected and predicted!

You are not interested in debating because you don't have a clue what you are talking about!:classic_laugh: 

You are just trying to find any excuse you can to avoid debate because you know that can't justify what you say. 

No, I'm actually not reading, you've bored me senseless.

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:
1 minute ago, Badger said:

 

As I suspected and predicted!

You are not interested in debating because you don't have a clue what you are talking about!:classic_laugh: 

You are just trying to find any excuse you can to avoid debate because you know that can't justify what you say. 

 

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

No, I'm actually not reading. 

You are not replying because you don't know what you are talking about. If you had any argument, you would reply instead of making false claims about your understanding of economics!

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Badger said:

You are not replying because you don't know what you are talking about. If you had any argument, you would reply instead of making false claims about your understanding of economics!

I learnt from Brexit that there is a point at which two people with diametrically opposed points of view should stop debating, because:

1). They will never agree, so it is a waste of time which is a limited resource for all of us. We're in the middle of a pandemic, so that's all the more prevalent in ones thinking. 

and...

2). It gets way beyond the point that anybody else cares. You are writing these big posts to an audience at this point, you want to 'win' a game, only the audience really isn't there, nobody cares, and we haven't agreed a referee.

I think that you're a complete idiot, you think that I'm a complete idiot, so where do we really go from here? I have zero respect for you or your opinion, and you don't mine. That's the end of the road Jack. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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Spot the difference 😂

On 08/04/2020 at 10:48, TeemuVanBasten said:

I'm a subscriber to the Austrian school of economics by the way. Let bubbles pop, stop propping things up with funny money.

3 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

but nowhere have I said that I'm an econ grad or an economist.

So you are a subscriber to the Austrian school of economics, but you have never studied Economics! 🤣

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Badger said:

Spot the difference 😂

So you are a subscriber to the Austrian school of economics, but you have never studied Economics! 🤣

Yeah I don't think ideologies actually operate a subscription model Badger, e.g. you can be a vegan without joining the vegan club for £9.99. 

When people "subscribe to a theory" it means they believe in something.

Your illiteracy not my problem. Good grief. 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/subscribe-to-something

https://ludwig.guru/s/subscribe+to+a+theory+that

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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5 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I learnt from Brexit that there is a point at which two people with diametrically opposed points of view should stop debating, because:

You argued yourself into a position from which you couldn't escape! 

You made up so much nonsense that you couldn't remember what you said and became embarrassed when it was quoted back at you!

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Badger said:

You argued yourself into a position from which you couldn't escape! 

You made up so much nonsense that you couldn't remember what you said and became embarrassed when it was quoted back at you!

If you want to pretend to have won a game that you invented, with rules that you've never shared, to feel good in front of an audience which doesn't exist then go for it.... make yourself a little trophy and do a lap of your living room. Perhaps even pull a victory moony. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Yeah I don't think ideologies actually operate a subscription model Badger, e.g. you can be a vegan without joining the vegan club. 

When people "subscribe to a theory" it means they believe in something.

Your illiteracy not my problem. Good grief. 

🤣 Keep digging!

I suppose you  just happened to "stumble upon" the subjective theory of value, marginalism in price theory and formulation of the economic calculation problem (all basics of the Austrian school btw) from the Daily Mail and you managed to understand them without any previous academic study of economics. 😂

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Badger said:

🤣 Keep digging!

I suppose you  just happened to "stumble upon" the subjective theory of value, marginalism in price theory and formulation of the economic calculation problem (all basics of the Austrian school btw) from the Daily Mail and you managed to understand them without any previous academic study of economics. 😂

I don't have an economics degree, that doesn't mean no previous study of economics. A lot of degrees have economics modules, we've had a Chancellor of the Exchequer without an economics degree.

I'm a STEM graduate working as a risk modeller, if you must know, not sure how that is relevant to me believing the players should shave a few percent off their salaries but this is the game you invented, with your rules, and so you win, I'm not an economics graduate which means I can't believe that the players should take a pay cut and I must be wrong to be worried about the future economic consequences of covoid-19.

I'd go further in fact, only people with an economics degree should be allowed to vote in general elections (that's your point right?), even though its only a social science and not that hard (econometrics aside, the only difficult bit). 

But are you about to tell me that you have an economics degree? Or is this quite ironic? 

Stop begging for self-esteem Badger, you are almost at the point where you are going to ask me to come on your face to feel wanted. 

OK you win, if that makes you leave me alone. Opposition quit of exhaustion, threw in the towel. 

Well done Badger, your a winner, a great guy, let's go champ, king of the hill, hall of fame! Somebody pat him on the back! 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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7 minutes ago, Badger said:

🤣 Keep digging!

I suppose you  just happened to "stumble upon" the subjective theory of value, marginalism in price theory and formulation of the economic calculation problem (all basics of the Austrian school btw) from the Daily Mail and you managed to understand them without any previous academic study of economics. 😂

 

3 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I don't have an economics degree, that doesn't mean no previous study of economics.

So tell me TVB, where you studies the subjective theory of value, marginalism in price theory and formulation of the economic calculation problem, all Austrian school basics - in C.S.E. Home Economics?

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Posted (edited)

OK you win Badger, if that makes you leave me alone. Opposition quit of exhaustion, threw in the towel. 

Congratulations. I think I can hear the audience cheering in the distance, thousands witnessed this famous moment, all been sitting watching every move with bated breath. They'll still be talking about this great victory in 2050. 

I'm truly gutted that its your name which goes down in the annuals of internet history instead of mine, I'll never sleep well again. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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2 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

The focus should not just be on the players. They got us to where we are and to be honest by prem standards are not that highly paid so although I do think they should be taking cuts or deferrals so also should the other highly paid staff at the club. Also amongst that interview is the express statement that “the owners are no longer putting any money into the club” which I think is the first time that’s actually been said outright although we all know they haven’t done so for a long time.

if the club does start asking people to forego refunds then it will be interesting to see if the owners actually put in some money themselves to keep their main asset (which they have made clear they will hand to their nephew whether the fans like it or not) afloat or just rely on the fans to fund everything as has become the norm. 

 

It is not unreasonable to expect the owners of the club in these extraordinary times to put massive amounts of capital into the business 

even Marcus Evans is doing the same 

if they don’t want to invest any more then sell up their shares to the fans so it can become a properly self funding club on a mutual basis 

or my preferred option is to sell to a stinking rich Chinese owner who has already survived corona virus 

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