Those generous multi millionaires but

[dylanisabaddog 4,914]

13 hours ago, Aggy said:

Premier league footballers will find another job if Norwich City goes bust. They’re also in a position where, to be honest, even the younger ones never need to work a day again if push comes to shove. If you’re on 30k a year, haven’t got any savings, and have no guarantee of getting a new job next week then it makes sense to take 80 per cent of your salary instead of nothing. 

Second point - if the club is so hard up, it can make the players redundant. Normal redundancy laws apply. If the players don’t want to go on furlough and the club can’t afford to keep them, then there’s your solution. The club won’t do that because it’s losing a valuable asset. The club can’t have it both ways and shaft their employees, even employees who are paid extremely well.

Personally, I would much prefer anybody who is in the lucky position of having more money than they need to donate it to a charity or to support the NHS than to prop up their employer.

The club wouldn't benefit from making players redundant. They would have to pay their contracts up in full. Unless the club went into liquidation which of course wouldn't solve the problem 

[dylanisabaddog 4,914]

In 2018 Amazon's turnover in the UK was £10,000,000,000. They made a profit of £22,000,000 and paid Corporation Tax of £4,500,000.

In the same year Premier League clubs paid over £1bn in income tax and national insurance deducted from players wages. 

In 2016 the Duke of Westminster died leaving a fortune valued at £9.3bn. His son inherited his title and became the richest person under 30 in the world. Inheritance tax of 40% should have been due on the estate but none was paid due to Trust arrangements. 

Football is an almost unique industry in that the people who create the wealth get the money. And they pay huge amounts of tax on it. 

If we're looking for someone to pay for this crisis, football is the last place I would be looking. 

[yellowandgreen 34]

In 2018 Amazon's turnover in the UK was £10,000,000,000. They made a profit of £22,000,000 and paid Corporation Tax of £4,500,000.

In the same year Premier League clubs paid over £1bn in income tax and national insurance deducted from players wages. 

In 2016 the Duke of Westminster died leaving a fortune valued at £9.3bn. His son inherited his title and became the richest person under 30 in the world. Inheritance tax of 40% should have been due on the estate but none was paid due to Trust arrangements. 

Football is an almost unique industry in that the people who create the wealth get the money. And they pay huge amounts of tax on it. 

If we're looking for someone to pay for this crisis, football is the last place I would be looking. 

 

Well said.

Edited April 10, 2020 by yellowandgreen

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

If we're looking for someone to pay for this crisis, football is the last place I would be looking. 

What if we are looking for a group to help their employers out of a financial problem? It is nothing to do with tax or the NHS. It is about the players helping out their club with no income.

We seem to believe that the whole world loves football. I doubt that is anywhere near true.

[ricardo 7,385]

23 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

If we're looking for someone to pay for this crisis, football is the last place I would be looking. 

What if we are looking for a group to help their employers out of a financial problem? It is nothing to do with tax or the NHS. It is about the players helping out their club with no income.

We seem to believe that the whole world loves football. I doubt that is anywhere near true.

With far fewer clubs there will be far fewer players required. I fail to see where anyone benefits from clubs going out of business.

[Monty13 2,231]

1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

In 2018 Amazon's turnover in the UK was £10,000,000,000. They made a profit of £22,000,000 and paid Corporation Tax of £4,500,000.

In the same year Premier League clubs paid over £1bn in income tax and national insurance deducted from players wages. 

In 2016 the Duke of Westminster died leaving a fortune valued at £9.3bn. His son inherited his title and became the richest person under 30 in the world. Inheritance tax of 40% should have been due on the estate but none was paid due to Trust arrangements. 

Football is an almost unique industry in that the people who create the wealth get the money. And they pay huge amounts of tax on it. 

If we're looking for someone to pay for this crisis, football is the last place I would be looking. 

How come the millions paid in income tax and NI by Amazon for its employees doesn’t count?

How much corporation tax do PL clubs pay?

Not saying Amazon is the good guy by any stretch but not sure how it’s particularly different in the Tax stakes to PL clubs?

[dylanisabaddog 4,914]

20 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

How come the millions paid in income tax and NI by Amazon for its employees doesn’t count?

How much corporation tax do PL clubs pay?

Not saying Amazon is the good guy by any stretch but not sure how it’s particularly different in the Tax stakes to PL clubs?

Premier League clubs pay out the bulk of their income in wages and rarely make a profit so don't pay much in CT. Wages obviously reduce profit. But if it makes you happy both Spurs and Liverpool paid more in CT last year than Amazon. And of course PAYE deducted from wages is up near 50% whereas CT is 20% so the Government benefits from football clubs paying high wages but making little or no profit. 

Amazon UK paid over £215m in PAYE deductions last year, which is a tiny proportion of the tax deducted from EPL footballers. Hardly surprising as 90% of their staff are on national minimum wage. 

 

[Aggy 755]

2 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

The club wouldn't benefit from making players redundant. They would have to pay their contracts up in full. Unless the club went into liquidation which of course wouldn't solve the problem 

How do you know? If there is nothing in their contracts to the contrary, they’d be entitled to statutory redundancy pay and that’s it.

It’s not the same situation as just unilaterally releasing a player at the end of a season - that’s not a redundancy process (because there is still work to be done; ie playing football). 

[ricardo 7,385]

11 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Premier League clubs pay out the bulk of their income in wages and rarely make a profit so don't pay much in CT. Wages obviously reduce profit. But if it makes you happy both Spurs and Liverpool paid more in CT last year than Amazon. And of course PAYE deducted from wages is up near 50% whereas CT is 20% so the Government benefits from football clubs paying high wages but making little or no profit. 

Amazon UK paid over £215m in PAYE deductions last year, which is a tiny proportion of the tax deducted from EPL footballers. Hardly surprising as 90% of their staff are on national minimum wage. 

 

I am still trying to work out what Amazon or the Duke of Westminster has to do with players understanding it is not in their own or anyone elses interests to see their employers go out of business.

[Herman 9,756]

21 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I can't help thinking that some are being naive here. When you are a politician and you want people to look in the wrong direction you point them at footballers. 

Try looking somewhere that the politicians don't want you to look 

I'm not sure why a Conservative government wouldn't want us to look under this stone.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/09/hedge-funds-raking-in-billions-during-coronavirus-crisis

[Aggy 755]

8 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I am still trying to work out what Amazon or the Duke of Westminster has to do with players understanding it is not in their own or anyone elses interests to see their employers go out of business.

I think it’s two different points.

My view - as I’ve said elsewhere on the forum - is that the sensible position would be for the clubs and players to discuss things and find a suitable position for everyone. I don’t disagree with you on that Ricardo.

However, I don’t agree that the players have any obligation to their employer, I don’t think there should be some sort of ‘mandatory’ pay reduction, I disagree with the way Hancock said things about footballers whilst not mentioning anyone else in exactly the same boat, and I don’t agree with the current vilification of players for taking home the salary that they are contractually entitled to or of the clubs for “using tax payers money” by putting non playing staff on the furlough scheme.
 

As I’ve also said elsewhere, I’d much rather employees who can afford to do so give money to charities and the NHS than their employer. And if the players were normal employees at some random business in London rather than the club we support, I don’t think many people would argue. 

 

[ricardo 7,385]

I am far more concerned for the clubs than I am the players. In a few years they can put their feet up but millions of supporters may have lost the club that they have supported all their lives. That is why I have said many times on this Forum that I don't  get too emotionally involved with various managers and players. They are merely transient, its the supporters and the club that is here forever.

[Aggy 755]

3 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I am far more concerned for the clubs than I am the players. In a few years they can put their feet up but millions of supporters may have lost the club that they have supported all their lives. That is why I have said many times on this Forum that I don't  get too emotionally involved with various managers and players. They are merely transient, its the supporters and the club that is here forever.

I would agree and the club would be being incredibly stupid if it wasn’t having discussions with players about reducing their salaries for the good of the club. And yes, I’d appreciate it if the players did take a cut (in the same way I’d appreciate it if my bosses took a cut to keep my employer afloat - and keep me in a job - if it ever came to that). 

But that’s different to the players having some sort of obligation (morally or otherwise) to help out their employer. They are employees after all.

[ricardo 7,385]

10 minutes ago, Aggy said:

I would agree and the club would be being incredibly stupid if it wasn’t having discussions with players about reducing their salaries for the good of the club. And yes, I’d appreciate it if the players did take a cut (in the same way I’d appreciate it if my bosses took a cut to keep my employer afloat - and keep me in a job - if it ever came to that). 

But that’s different to the players having some sort of obligation (morally or otherwise) to help out their employer. They are employees after all.

The morality of that decision lies entirely with them but I would have thought that even from the PR perspective, not biting the hand that feeds you would be a sensible position to adopt.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 hours ago, yellowandgreen said:

In 2018 Amazon's turnover in the UK was £10,000,000,000. They made a profit of £22,000,000 and paid Corporation Tax of £4,500,000.

In the same year Premier League clubs paid over £1bn in income tax and national insurance deducted from players wages. 

You are comparing two completely different taxes. 

You are comparing the corporation tax paid by one company, with the income tax and NI paid from employees of an industry.

Makes no sense whatsoever. Most football clubs are loss making most years and therefore pay £0 in corporation tax, whilst Amazon's 27500 UK employees also pay income tax and NI, but you seem to be wilfully ignoring that.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

17 hours ago, ricardo said:

I can't understand people supporting the players over this. Clubs need to be here long after this lot of players are writing their memoirs. The only way some clubs will stay in business is if the players make a sacrifice else some may find no club to go back to.

As much as I 100% agree with this Ricardo, the club can't expect the players to make a financial sacrifice if the executive team don't make the first move.

Timm Klose quite rightfully going to question why he has to give up 20% of his salary if Stuart Webber, Tom Smith, Ben Kenshall et al don't consider it necessary. 

The players may be able to hide behind the PFA but they can't. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[ricardo 7,385]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

As much as I 100% agree with this Ricardo, the club can't expect the players to make a financial sacrifice if the executive team don't make the first move.

Timm Klose quite rightfully going to question why he has to give up 20% of his salary if Stuart Webber, Tom Smith, Ben Kenshall et al don't consider it necessary. 

I don't disagree with that at all.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

So what salary does Tom Smith get?

[ricardo 7,385]

Just now, nutty nigel said:

So what salary does Tom Smith get?

Three boxes of crackers and a paper hat.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

So what salary does Tom Smith get?

Is he unpaid? Truthfully I don't know whether he is paid or not, but we have executives who are paid handsomely and my general point still stands. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[nutty nigel 7,531]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Is he unpaid? Truthfully I don't know whether he is paid or not, but we have executives who are paid handsomely and my general point still stands. 

Tbh nobody really knows much. If it helps folk to get through this difficult time by focussing on other people's money then so be it.

[Mello Yello 2,289]

Neppers Tom don't need a club salary.....he's got a successful clicky snappy photo business....and probably has a small spy camera for when he was a secret civil serpent.....

[pete 319]

Donations to the NHS charity to be anonymous we will never know how generous or not each player will be therefore.  OK but I would like to know how generous the players as a unit have been.  I guess the figure will always be unknown.  

[Aggy 755]

3 minutes ago, pete said:

.  OK but I would like to know how generous the players as a unit have been.  

Why? What business is it of yours? 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Aggy

[ricardo 7,385]

32 minutes ago, pete said:

Donations to the NHS charity to be anonymous we will never know how generous or not each player will be therefore.  OK but I would like to know how generous the players as a unit have been.  I guess the figure will always be unknown.  

Its so secret its in The Evening News.

our lot gave 200k

[dylanisabaddog 4,914]

2 hours ago, Aggy said:

How do you know? If there is nothing in their contracts to the contrary, they’d be entitled to statutory redundancy pay and that’s it.

It’s not the same situation as just unilaterally releasing a player at the end of a season - that’s not a redundancy process (because there is still work to be done; ie playing football). 

Yes I do know. They have a contract which is payable in full unless the contract is brought to an end because the player asks for a transfer. Or if the contract allows for redundancy. But most footballers have a value that exceeds what it would cost to keep them. 

[dylanisabaddog 4,914]

2 hours ago, ricardo said:

I am still trying to work out what Amazon or the Duke of Westminster has to do with players understanding it is not in their own or anyone elses interests to see their employers go out of business.

At the moment we have no evidence that anyone is going out of business. The football authorities are still saying that they will finish the season. 

The players asked the clubs what would happen to the 30% they would save on wages and didn't get an answer. They also didn't get a response to the players query about money being spent on transfer fees in the close season. 

If someone owed me money under a contract and said they couldn't afford to pay I would expect them to prove it. 

If clubs are going to go under they should very easily be able to prove it. If they can prove it I don't have a problem with a salary reduction but I have my suspicions that clubs will play out the season and then pay £30m for a new player. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

Tbh nobody really knows much. If it helps folk to get through this difficult time by focussing on other people's money then so be it.

I think shareholders are entitled to question executive remuneration. 

[Mello Yello 2,289]

2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I think shareholders are entitled to question executive remuneration. 

Hang slack.....Just gonna microwave some popcorn, I'll be back in a mo......

[ricardo 7,385]

9 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

but I have my suspicions that clubs will play out the season and then pay £30m for a new player. 

Not at CR though😞

free transfer more likely