How much of a pay cut should the players take?

[ricardo 7,339]

2 minutes ago, Ray said:

The simplest way to cover all this is for the government to introduce an emergency tax effective 1st May for 2 months on anyone, footballer or not, earning in excess of say £20,000 per month of say an extra 20%.  There may of course be ways around this but anyone found guilty of deliberately taking steps to avoid paying could be named and shamed and/or their average weekly/monthly wage is calculated at the end of the year and the tax applied retrospectively.  That way footballers will not feel they are being singled out and it will no doubt raise a fair few quid.  All this would probably do is bring forward the increased tax we will all no doubt have to pay eventually anyway but will only be payable now by those who earn the most.

It still doesnt help the club.

[Ray 111]

I accept it doesn't help our club Ricardo, it does however help the country.  An alternative view could be that as players (and not just ours) will be faced with a tax rate of 65%, it may be they would be more amenable to actually taking a pay cut, because by cutting say £10,000 per week which will help their club by exactly that amount it will in real terms only be costing them £3,500 per week as individuals.  Obviously there are other tax rates and figures available in all good shops.

[Barbe bleu 812]

9 minutes ago, ricardo said:

It still doesnt help the club.

I wouldn't have an issue with furlough if the club staff as a whole cover what the government has paid in with extra tax or other contributions.

[Ray 111]

Ricardo,

I meant to add that the club, or any club, could then more easily afford to keep other staff on full pay without taking the governments money.

 

[ricardo 7,339]

5 minutes ago, Ray said:

I accept it doesn't help our club Ricardo, it does however help the country.  An alternative view could be that as players (and not just ours) will be faced with a tax rate of 65%, it may be they would be more amenable to actually taking a pay cut, because by cutting say £10,000 per week which will help their club by exactly that amount it will in real terms only be costing them £3,500 per week as individuals.  Obviously there are other tax rates and figures available in all good shops.

With the Exchequer borrowing a quarter of a trillion quid any such tax adjustments are nothing more than a cosmetic exercise. This is not about penalising the players its about them accepting that without an employer they won't  have a job.

[Ray 111]

Understanding your point Ricardo, however every journey (recouping a quarter of a trillion) starts with a single step, and this tax would not just be footballers, it would be every high end earner, or alternatively they take a cut, which I accept means the government loses out on some income but means businesses are more likely to survive and hence help maintain employment levels AC (After Corona).

[Badger 2,405]

43 minutes ago, Ray said:

The simplest way to cover all this is for the government to introduce an emergency tax effective 1st May for 2 months on anyone, footballer or not, earning in excess of say £20,000 per month of say an extra 20%. 

Introducing any tax rise at a time like this, would be economically disastrous.

[Ray 111]

Any more economically disastrous than what is currently going on?  Who knows?  I'm not advocating it, just putting it out there as a suggestion.

[Ray 111]

Badger,

Just given this a touch more thought.  Effectively those that have been furloughed are paying extra tax in a reduction in income, so my question is, why shouldn't those in full employment, earning in excess of say £10,000 per week also suffer a reduction in income?

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

I am not impressed with the way the club has handled this and also other things recently have, I think been handled badly.

I keep thinking (hoping) that the club are waiting to see what happens with this season and where we are next season, first.  I would like to think that morally, should we remain in the PL and next season goes ahead as planned that any money we have received through Furlough will either be returned or donated to the NHS for example.

Taking furlough money, then remaining in the PL next season, continuing to earn many millions etc etc, would not sit comfortably with me.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Some of the players currently playing for us may not be here the next time time football starts a new season. And none will be here in ten years. The club will. And that is my main gripe about the players receiving full pay. The financial future of the club.

We are not that wealthy. We fill the ground and yet cannot live within our means most seasons. Yet we are prepared to pay the players full whack without even asking them, we suppose, whether they would agree to a 20% pay cut.

If at the end of this crisis, we cry foul and say we are losing money then it will be the first time I would feel angry at the board. I don't agree with all their decisions during a season but cannot dispute that they are overseeing a successful period on the pitch for the club. And I would choose Delia over an Ashley or Kroenke every time.

[Aggy 750]

5 hours ago, Indy said:

 If the club is in poor financial situation, then that’s big part down to players who while times are good take a huge slice of the money,

They take their salary that they entitled to receive. They aren’t shareholders taking a slice of profits in the good times and making employees redundant in the bad items. They just get paid their contractual salary (and contractual bonuses) in the same way that every other employee does. Yes there are a few more 0s on the end than most employees but that’s the only difference.

come this hard time to all us, I’m currently with zero income as I wait for the oil industry to bounce back. As I take my wage up to my maximum allowable income the rest I take in dividends and pay tax on. In theory I pay my company corporation tax so pay 20% in taxes each year on my company profits and 7.5 % on my personal tax.

Players won’t get dividends.

As for the players they have a duty at this time to protect their employers,

Why? Do Amazon’s employees have a duty to protect their employers? Or Apple’s? If you don’t think some chap working in an Apple store on virtually nothing has a duty to protect the shareholders of Apple, why do the players have a duty to protect the shareholders of the club? Let’s face it, if the players play badly would we be offering to renew their contract to keep them in employment? No chance (unless it suited the club by bumping up a transfer fee). If they have a few bad games, the fans get on their back. The idea that the players somehow owe anything to the club I just don’t see.

it’s short term and as I agree in respect that all businesses need to enforce a force majour clause in contracts, as I have, hopefully clubs will learn from this as other major incidents in the future could have the same impact.

So for me it’s an absolute disgrace when clubs in the lower leagues are now pushing the financial boundries and having to think about laying everyone off permanently to survive.
 

Sorry but in the short term all players should be put on minimum wage Furloughed if you like,

I agree. If the club is in desperate measures do it. This is exactly my point. It’s all well and good blaming the players but the clubs are choosing not to furlough or make players redundant. Why? Because it benefits the clubs not to do that. If the clubs made players redundant, the clubs would lose out on millions in transfer fees. If our players were made redundant (free agents) then all of them would get a new job within the next six months - loads of clubs would be clambering to get a free agent premier league standard player in.

 

then each club should donate to a critical finance fund to help lower league clubs and the rest to aid the NHS.

Its not like we would be asking the players to take a huge wage cut long term,

I have no problem with the club/asking the players to take a cut and have said elsewhere that the sensible position would be for the clubs and players to come to an agreement. My issue is with this idea that the players have some sort of duty to help.  

it’s just short term and they have a moral duty to help this club and it’s community. We obviously see it from different view points but this is a very strange time and community should come first including the football clubs. 👍
 

agree re community but I don’t see clubs as part of the community any more than most businesses nowadays. I work for an international business and we put a lot of money into local communities around each of our offices. As do most other large (and smaller) businesses. Not all of course, but this idea that football clubs are some sort of pillar of the community is outdated. They are no different to most other businesses.

 

[ricardo 7,339]

agree re community but I don’t see clubs as part of the community any more than most businesses nowadays. I work for an international business and we put a lot of money into local communities around each of our offices. As do most other large (and smaller) businesses. Not all of course, but this idea that football clubs are some sort of pillar of the community is outdated. They are no different to most other businesses.

 

 

They are vastly different to most other businesses and I am amazed that anyone, especially a football fan could think differently.

In the 1950's this club nearly went bust and during that crisis men would carry a large sheet round the perimeter track at half time and fans would chuck shillings in it in order to help pay the outgoings.

Name me any business where the man in the street would reach into his pocket to do the same.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Name me any business where the man in the street would reach into his pocket to do the same.

Don't see a blanket going round for Debenhams, Next etc. Football is only a business for those who seek to make a fortune out of it. And that doesn't include the most important, the spectators. We will see how good football is when they start playing it behind closed doors.

[Indy 3,283]

1 hour ago, Aggy said:

 

Sorry Aggy in contexts of earnings against cubs profits I can’t agree with your points, this is a once in a lifetime event and could send this club into financial issues. There’s no way I would ever consider offering and future players contract without a force majour fo this type of issue, if that meant missing out on some players so be it, time to cut the cloth, so to speak.

We’ll agree to disagree, still hope this doesn’t last too long or we might not have a club as we have today.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

53 minutes ago, Indy said:

still hope this doesn’t last too long or we might not have a club as we have today.

This is my big worry , that the players wont budge on pay until its clear that there is no more in the pipeline.  This may be too long a period for the club as we dont have the stereotypical  wealthy prem owner.  The players are of course legally entitled to be paid  according to their contracts . I would  like to point out to them that they may kill the goose that lays their golden eggs. 

On the other hand,  maybe there are serious discussions  going on as I type regarding how players can do their bit to save that golden egg laying goose. 

Are they playing the fiddle while Rome burns or are they working feverishly behind the scenes to save their own industry. 

Answers on a postcard as I have no idea.