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I dunno.....Is chartering an executive aircraft to fly to away games and back.....penny pinching?.....

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Posted (edited)

Whilst I don't feel particularly comfortable with doing this - it would have been nice if we hadn't been one of the first Premier League clubs to tap into it - if you look at the wider business world and what it does I don't see there's anything wrong with football clubs utilising the scheme.

There are many very large manufacturing companies and those who operate in the financial and leisure world whose directors and partners are paid similar salaries to those enjoyed by top footballers. I haven't noticed any of those taking a voluntary financial hit over this.

Football clubs do have a disproportionate number of high earners but as others on here have said they all pay a hefty amount of tax which is always conveniently overlooked by the headline writers.

Edited by ......and Smith must score.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

Afternoon Kirku!

I'm sorry Kirku but I don't have much sympathy with our players when staff who earn in a year what the players earn in a week are being furloughed. The fact the club have taken that action says to me that the club are going to be seriously financial impacted by all this and are trying their best to mitigate that (which is fine). And yet the high earners (players/management/coaches) do nothing? Really? All in this together are we? Community club?

Why does this need to change? They pay their taxes and get their (still) massive chunk back. They then give some of that chunk back to the club so we can stay financially solid. Standing orders are remarkably easy to set up.

I don't care about Denise Coates; her actions (or lack of them) are for her conscience. She has nothing to do with me. Whatever she's doing, I doubt it's enough. But what I do care about is my club because I'm part of it. It's part of what makes me, me! This looks bad because it is. It reflects on every part of our club.

I have NO issue with them using the scheme AS LONG as everyone in the club is pulling in the same direction. At the moment, they aren't.

OTBC

Afternoon Disco,

"I'm sorry Kirku but I don't have much sympathy with our players when staff who earn in a year what the players earn in a week are being furloughed."

But the staff being furloughed are not being financially impacted by this in any way. The club are paying 100% of their wages and will simply claim 80% or £2,500 a month back from HMRC.

"The fact the club have taken that action says to me that the club are going to be seriously financial impacted by all this and are trying their best to mitigate that (which is fine). And yet the high earners (players/management/coaches) do nothing? Really? All in this together are we? Community club?"

They have agreed to donate £200k to local causes (although it is unclear if this one-off or ongoing). But, yes, I agree the impact will be big on the club - which is why they need to look at using the CJRS like many other much larger and more profitable businesses are doing.

"Why does this need to change? They pay their taxes and get their (still) massive chunk back. They then give some of that chunk back to the club so we can stay financially solid. Standing orders are remarkably easy to set up."

It doesn't need to change, I was just highlighting the amount contributed to public coffers. All in, the Premier League clubs and players contributed £1,409m in tax last season (according to Kieran Maguire).

"I have NO issue with them using the scheme AS LONG as everyone in the club is pulling in the same direction. At the moment, they aren't."

I think they are pulling in the same direction, it's just been a horrible job of managing the communications and timing of what they're doing.

Besides, can you imagine the outcry if the club tried to furlough the playing staff and claim the £2,500 per month from their wages?

 

 

Edited by kirku

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Thanks for your reply Kirku!

20 minutes ago, kirku said:

Besides, can you imagine the outcry if the club tried to furlough the playing staff and claim the £2,500 per month from their wages?

Blimey, don't even go there. That would be the mother of all sh1t shows!

OTBC

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Just now, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

Thanks for your reply Kirku!

Blimey, don't even go there. That would be the mother of all sh1t shows!

OTBC

In all honesty, I'd imagine clubs further down the pyramid will already be looking at it. It won't get much media traction, I wouldn't have thought, but their management teams would be idiots to not have considered it as an option.

Furlough (nearly) everyone and mothball the club

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Kirku. It isn't about the furlough. It isn't about the tax paid because I would imagine some people in football are paying less tax than you are. 

It is the fact that the club has no income and that it be asked to hand some back. And yet the players are not being asked to take a cut. And Barca and Juventus that asked their players. Maybe the board has asked the players and they have refused. Maybe they have asked and they are considering it. Maybe they haven't even asked.

What other industry wwould work on the basis of no income but keep paying their top earners.

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2 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Kirku. It isn't about the furlough. It isn't about the tax paid because I would imagine some people in football are paying less tax than you are. 

It is the fact that the club has no income and that it be asked to hand some back. And yet the players are not being asked to take a cut. And Barca and Juventus that asked their players. Maybe the board has asked the players and they have refused. Maybe they have asked and they are considering it. Maybe they haven't even asked.

What other industry wwould work on the basis of no income but keep paying their top earners.

As I understand it, the players have been advised by the PFA to act collectively. They haven't done the players many favours because we can see the public outcry already. Their silence is being taken as outright rejection. I don't believe that to be the case.

I can absolutely guarantee you that there are many many businesses out there where the exec team is still on full whack while the frontline staff are being furloughed, and not topped up to 100% of their wage. No doubt about it.

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

There are many very large manufacturing companies and those who operate in the financial and leisure world whose directors and partners are paid similar salaries to those enjoyed by top footballers. I haven't noticed any of those taking a voluntary financial hit over this.

Haven't looked very hard then, loads of CEO's and executives have taken pay cuts. 

Primark CEO 50%, ITV CEO 20%, Super League Chief 40%, Capita 25%, Disney 50%, Delta 100%, Monzo 100%, every Apple executive, everyone at Daimler. I could go on and on but I haven't got all week. 

May I advise you fact check before posting? 

The lack of a pay cut from Stuart Webber whilst matchday casual staff lose income is something worth questioning. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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19 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

The lack of a pay cut from Stuart Webber whilst matchday casual staff lose income is something worth questioning. 

They haven't lost income though, have they? (unless the club aren't utilising the CJRS properly, which would be very poor on their part)

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1 hour ago, Mello Yello said:

I dunno.....Is chartering an executive aircraft to fly to away games and back.....penny pinching?.....

No as that is champagne socialism.

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1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

 

The lack of a pay cut from Stuart Webber whilst matchday casual staff lose income is something worth questioning. 

Poor old Webber is fast falling off his pedestal  in 2020 isn't he

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2 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Haven't looked very hard then, loads of CEO's and executives have taken pay cuts. 

Primark CEO 50%, ITV CEO 20%, Super League Chief 40%, Capita 25%, Disney 50%, Delta 100%, Monzo 100%, every Apple executive, everyone at Daimler. I could go on and on but I haven't got all week. 

May I advise you fact check before posting? 

The lack of a pay cut from Stuart Webber whilst matchday casual staff lose income is something worth questioning. 

To be fair I don't get out much these days but it's a rare beast that puts a post up on here based on facts 😉

I'm sure all your quoted examples are correct but it's still a tiny drop in the ocean compared with those who haven't. For what it's worth I'm sure all captains of industry who have taken a hit will have made sure the world and his dog knows about it.

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2 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

Poor old Webber is fast falling off his pedestal  in 2020 isn't he

Tough times ahead. We won't be able to afford two people doing the job of one. 😉

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8 minutes ago, sonyc said:

"Norwich City’s squad, manager Daniel Falke and the executive committee agreed to donate a percentage of their salaries to buy and distribute food and essential toiletry packages in the community."

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5 hours ago, kirku said:

In all honesty, I'd imagine clubs further down the pyramid will already be looking at it. It won't get much media traction, I wouldn't have thought, but their management teams would be idiots to not have considered it as an option.

Furlough (nearly) everyone and mothball the club

Coventry have done this 

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It’s interesting/odd that no one in the media seems to know our players were ringing round supporters. I’ve seen a few stories quoting several clubs but never us.

 I’m inclined to think people (including footballers) do and have done a lot of ‘good’ on the quiet over the years.  That used to be the way it was done, but it does now seem that unless you make a massive thing about it it’s as though it ‘didn’t happen’.

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The questionable and recent rather pathetic behaviour of a certain Villa 'Prima Donna' unfortunately creates a stigma against the majority of Professional footballers who are a credit to their football team, the sport and society......

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1 hour ago, JF said:

Was wondering what thread to put this fantastic piece in and this thread seems as good as any. Superb read and I’d love to know who this player is who wants to remain anonymous is

https://www.football365.com/news/feature-premier-league-player-wage-cut-matt-hancock

Really good article. 

So he's towards the end of his career, has spent many years in the Premier League, earns around £50k a week but previously earnt more and he hates Daniel Levy. I've even had a glance at the squad lists of the mid-lower teams but there's nobody really obvious that jumps out, to be honest.

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7 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Really good article. 

So he's towards the end of his career, has spent many years in the Premier League, earns around £50k a week but previously earnt more and he hates Daniel Levy. I've even had a glance at the squad lists of the mid-lower teams but there's nobody really obvious that jumps out, to be honest.

I’m thinking possibly Mark Noble as he uses the line  he’ll be blowing bubbles when he comes back to play but could be looking too much into that. Clearly English so could be Vardy or Milner. Would love to know who it is though. Sounds a top bloke

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On 01/04/2020 at 13:43, king canary said:

In the Webber article on the homepage, he suggests some of the players have already come forward about doing something which is good. It seems it is mostly going through the PFA though.

I had a look earlier and the combined wage bill of Man U, Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal is over £1,000,000,000. Just 10% of that would more than cover both the furloughed non-player salaries and help out lower league clubs in serious financial peril.   

Before asking players to take pay cuts we should perhaps bear in mind that the PAYE from those 5 clubs' players is in excess of £500,000,000. That's an awful lot of nurses. 

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Before asking players to take pay cuts we should perhaps bear in mind that the PAYE from those 5 clubs' players is in excess of £500,000,000. That's an awful lot of nurses. 

But we know so many players have good lawyers and accountants and some like Rooney pay less than someone on minimum wage. Not all of course but I would bet your assessment would be too high.
And it isn't about tax or furloughs particularly in our case. We have no income. And to keep paying full money is likely to cause problems later on. We have companies calling for bailouts such as Virgin and BA. And chances are, after the crisis, the government may well have to help out in some way.
We do not need football clubs falling into categories because they continue to pay high wages to the players. It is in their own hands. Cut the players wages and look after your own interests and avoid problems.

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43 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Cut the players wages and look after your own interests and avoid problems.

You can't cut the players wages without their consent, without running the risk of them leaving on a free and running the risk of losing tens of millions of pounds. 

Mihir Bose confirmed on the BBC press review last night that players have clauses in their contracts which prevents their wages from being cut and that they could leave for free if they were.

I'm not saying its fair, but to act unilaterally and without consent would be foolhardy.

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8 minutes ago, Herman said:

This is that Julian Knight as mentioned.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/23/tory-candidate-julian-knight-solihull-criticised-book-tax-avoidance

Read this article!

Thank you Herman. It just shows the hypocrisy of some of those that have tried to jump on the moral high ground! In the same way that some of those who have criticised the club, have for years argued that we need to have richer owners, to spend more money on players and to pay them higher wages. (Not you KG, who I know comes from a very different perspective.)

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You can't cut the players wages without their consent, without running the risk of them leaving on a free and running the risk of losing tens of millions of pounds. 

Mihir Bose confirmed on the BBC press review last night that players have clauses in their contracts which prevents their wages from being cut and that they could leave for free if they were.

I'm not saying its fair, but to act unilaterally and without consent would be foolhardy.

Those contracts were negotiated in different times. Much will change by the end of the year. And if the players are so pedantic and inhuman that they would hold their clubs to ransom then let them go. Put the U23's out. You cannot keep pandering and giving in to the players. There are other players available. As long as NCFC are alive and playing football then OTBC. 
Football is such a rat race. One manager sacked, sympathy from his peers and then they all apply for his job. Players goes into see Boss and says why am I not playing instead of so and so. Believe me they will break ranks.
Much of the public of Britain hated the Miners in the 80s because they said we are not working under the threat of closure and you are lying to us anyway. Holding the country to ransom so many said. Well if footballers want to leave or go on strike then go for it. Only one winner in the end.

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6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Only one winner in the end.

Sad to say it, but in my experience the winner in the end tends to be money :classic_sad:

Players would go and other clubs would pick them up and pay them extra because no transfer fees were involved. The club, would be liable to the outgoings that their purchase involved but have no rights over their registration. 

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