Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I think top footballers should be ashamed of themselves. Not a whimper from them. If they are planning something then let the world know. But I believe there will be a groundswell of public animosity if they don't come forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, keelansgrandad said:

I think top footballers should be ashamed of themselves. Not a whimper from them. If they are planning something then let the world know. But I believe there will be a groundswell of public animosity if they don't come forward.

The mental thing is Grandadio  ,  that guys on 100k plus a,week will have mammoth commitments  with that money. Short term high instalment  mortgages on luxury home(s) payments on multiple cars, other committed investments that may be hard for them to get out of. I  dont feel sorry  for them. Just don't expect too many taking too much of wage cut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Very simple system been put in place here. If you've lost your job or work if self employed, through covid 19  . You fill in a simple 1 page form. Those received by last thursday were paid €350 yesterday.This is guaranteed for next 12 weeks/ payments, everybody gets 12 , reviewed  by scheme end. Employers needing help already have it   ,  my daughter ,who works in a pub,  now closed, has already been assured and paid by her employer  who has in turn been assured that she will receive 12xweeks help initially to be  reviewed  before it runs out. We dont even have an elected govt and theyve put stuff in place already to ease people's  transition to the new future. 

Is it true that joe average in uk will get nothing for at least 5 weeks through universal  credits?

Universal Credit payments aren’t usually paid until 6 weeks after the claim is made, but people can apply for emergency payments that are then deducted in instalments from their regular payments. Whether the UC system has been able to cope with the huge increase in applications is another matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

High earning footballers are in a higher tax bracket....therefore the large sums they pay in tax are then used to pay lower paid staff when a situation such as this comes around.....so yes, in a way , they are contributing.

   I'll say it again....the non-playing staff at Carrow Rd are employed by Norwich City Football Club.....not by the players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thing is Corkie, Juventus have stop taking wages, Barcelona 70% cut. Two clubs from nations that are suffering badly. Good for them.

However, EPL. The silence is deafening

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

High earning footballers are in a higher tax bracket....therefore the large sums they pay in tax are then used to pay lower paid staff when a situation such as this comes around.....so yes, in a way , they are contributing.

   I'll say it again....the non-playing staff at Carrow Rd are employed by Norwich City Football Club.....not by the players.

The argument isn't the players should pay the staff.

The argument is how can a multimillion £ football club both afford to pay a number of people north of £20k a week and need the government to help them pay staff on £20k a year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, king canary said:

The argument isn't the players should pay the staff.

The argument is how can a multimillion £ football club both afford to pay a number of people north of £20k a week and need the government to help them pay staff on £20k a year.

...the furlough system only pays 80% of monthly wages up to £2500 month....that obviously doesnt cover the players wages ...but will the other staff if the club tops up the other 20%.

The football club is a buisness just like any other taking advantage of this.

Why would they pay 100% of wages to staff who arent doing anything/havent got anything to do?....when they can temporarily stand them down and have the government pay 80%??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Thing is Corkie, Juventus have stop taking wages, Barcelona 70% cut. Two clubs from nations that are suffering badly. Good for them.

However, EPL. The silence is deafening

I didnt say that they were right,  just that the more they have , the more commitments  they'll have.  I think I read that it's a wage deferral  at barca not loss, same at Juventus. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t quite follow this moral outrage argument. The players and the club are two completely different things - you’d hope the players would take some sort of joint stand...but they aren’t obliged to.

To me it’s irrelevant who is paid what - the scheme is open to be used.  It’s as simple as that.  Using it is not diminishing anything that others will get, so imo at that point it is purely a business rather than moral judgement and a total no brainer.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable about this. I know our players aren't paid top wack compared to 'bigger' clubs and I'm not suggesting the same fixed percentage reduction for each player, but surely there has to be some contribution from the players to non playing staff?

We've been named and shamed on the BBC and if we end up avoiding relegation due to act of God and grab another £100m worth of TV money once next season gets underway we're going to be a pretty unpopular club. Not to mention the players will get another season's worth Premier League salary when almost certain relegation would have curtailed that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable about this. I know our players aren't paid top wack compared to 'bigger' clubs and I'm not suggesting the same fixed percentage reduction for each player, but surely there has to be some contribution from the players to non playing staff?

We've been named and shamed on the BBC and if we end up avoiding relegation due to act of God and grab another £100m worth of TV money once next season gets underway we're going to be a pretty unpopular club. Not to mention the players will get another season's worth Premier League salary when almost certain relegation would have curtailed that.

Why?.....the non playing staff are still getting all of their wages.....80% from the government...20% from the club, nobodys losing out?

Why is it anybodys concern where that money is coming from?.....and why should it come out of someone elses wage???

...as previously mentioned...the government are presumably able to be doing this at all because of taxes...of which high end earners, such as footballers pay more than most

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

It seems me and you vs everyone else GJL.  I just don’t see the ‘moral’ argument.  I’d agree if there was a fixed ‘pot’ shared between all who apply but it’s absolutely not that sort of scheme.  It’s effectively an entitlement for organisations/businesses in the situation we are in.

Edited by Branston Pickle
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No Corkie. Barcelona and Juventus players have not deferred they are losing it. Ronaldo £8.4M.

Bayern Munich players have agreed to a temporary 20 per cent pay cut to ensure the club can continue to pay its staff, while Borussia Dortmund are in talks to do the same after it emerged last week Borussia Monchengladbach had told their club they were prepared to forgo their wages during the health crisis.

Germany's government may not be paying 80% wages, I don't know but the players are doing their bit. 

Surely a club is an all encompassing club. Players have such wonderful wages and benefits because they argued in Court that they should be treated the same as any other worker or employee. Hence the Bosman ruling. So be treated as the non playing staff. Don't forget, they will still be taxed and NIC's on their 80%.

For years I have been sick to death of hearing the complaints from top professional footballers. Too much football but never too much money even though their club is in debt and many of the crowd is in debt also.

I know they have outgoings as well but to sit on their wallets and say nothing is obscene. 

And the Board is just as guilty. As has been said, to keep paying the players full wages is not on. If they continue to do that and then say they are losing money then they will no doubt put up prices to compensate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just popping in. Financial support is for the vulnerable not fluking footballers. The world will be very different after this and footballers will be shocked.They are not essential or important or actually relevant. What a surprise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Why?.....the non playing staff are still getting all of their wages.....80% from the government...20% from the club, nobodys losing out?

Why is it anybodys concern where that money is coming from?.....and why should it come out of someone elses wage???

 

Well somebody is losing out - The taxpayer. 

What do you think is more important right now and for the foreseeable future: a) that the government has the money to invest in a ruined economy and a (god forbid) wrecked NHS or b) footballers have their contract honoured in full despite them not being able to do what they are paid for?

I think that the moral argument is right there and I also think that very few would put playing the game by the rules as more morally correct right now than investing in recovery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The problem here is that you appear to have rather missed the point of the scheme. 

Edited by Branston Pickle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Well somebody is losing out - The taxpayer. 

What do you think is more important right now and for the foreseeable future: a) that the government has the money to invest in a ruined economy and a (god forbid) wrecked NHS or b) footballers have their contract honoured in full despite them not being able to do what they are paid for?

I think that the moral argument is right there and I also think that very few would put playing the game by the rules as more morally correct right now than investing in recovery.

So you're the chancellor of the exchequer now are you...you know exactly how this is and will be funded??.

...nobody's losing their wage here...the players nor the other staff at the football club....and hopefully you, I and nobody else will due to this government scheme.

..the club are doing their staff a favour here in envkoing this. They are allowing them to stay away from a potentially dangerous envirenment where they might contract a killer virus...whilst ensuring that they will be payed in full at a time where they may otherwise have lost their job.

The only 'issue' here seems to be , once again people who have a jealousy or bitterness that footballers posess a skill that allows them to earn more money than they do.

....and I'll repeat...for a third time...high bracket eaners...such as footballers , pay a higher rate of tax, which contributes to the pot which the government is currently using to keep the general public in a wage during in the next weeks/months to keep food on the table and a roof over our head whilst allowing us to not be exposed (unless you're a key worker) to this global plague.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow - absolutely shocked and appalled any Premier League is taking advantage of this scheme, especially Norwich. Agree with above poster that the silence from the Premier League footballers is deafening.

After this is all over there should be player salary caps because clearly the way Premier League clubs operate is unsustainable if they cannot last more than a few months. End of the mega pay deals and vastly inflated transfer fees. Let’s get real. If they want help, anyone using it should be facing an automatic transfer ban for one window or only spend what they generate in sales.

This is morally wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In tandem with Webber saying he's not prepared to ask the players for a wage cut I just don't feel comfortable with it.

Effectively tax payers money (the scheme)  is being used to underwrite the players massive salaries. I can"t think any basic or higher rate tax payer can be happy with this. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apart from anything else the look of the thing is awful. Totally ham-fisted PR. The club should have stressed the main aim was to help the non-playing staff on ordinary wages, talked at least in hopeful terms of getting a voluntary cut in players' wages, and and tied the announcement in with what seems now to be an initiative involving the players to help the community.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Yup, dead right Purple. Using the scheme is one element of that and it’s perfectly reasonable to do so, but it could/should have gone hand in hand with other things.

There’s massive companies using it - if I read correctly BA are putting 38000 people on furlough and they were boasting of £bns of reserves only last week. We are nowhere near that level so should BA be prevented from using the scheme?

The point is that football revenue is on hold in the same way as everyone else’s (supermarkets apart) - they stand to lose a quarter of their season ticket revenue via refunds, and potentially a loss of advertising and tv money into the £m; I’d have thought it was reasonable sense to use a scheme set up to protect those staff. 

Re: the players, that’s a completely separate issue - if they don’t come up with something as a collective it will look bad on them but imo shouldn’t look bad on the clubs.

 

Edited by Branston Pickle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having slept on it I now  feel that using govt scheme for non playing staff is fine.....no one knows how long this will go on, and they are not high earners  in general ...theyll need money....soon.

The players need leadership however, whether it's the PFA  or some senior, respected player,  not necessarily a super earner to come out and say  " I know I'm  due  30 grand this week, but I can manage on 5, I've looked at my outgoings, trimmed the unnecessary  ( as have most of us) and do not feel that i am earning my corn at the moment" 

Let's get real, the bubble is more likely to burst if players wages are paid at current rates. For the future of the game, the game that gives them the privilege to live the way they do, their future, they must do something meaningful......and soon or they may find themselves vilified and maybe unemployed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, wcorkcanary said:

Having slept on it I now  feel that using govt scheme for non playing staff is fine.....no one knows how long this will go on, and they are not high earners  in general ...theyll need money....soon.

 

I dont think that anyone is suggesting that staff do not get paid- of course they should , but was it really necessary to get onto the scheme?   Were there really no other options?

Honestly i'd rather we sell or furlough a player to fund this than go to the taxpayer who had much better things to spend cash on tight now.

I am also sure that we could have delayed applying for a bail out. This is not the top three we wanted for this year...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Asking the tax payer to pay for your cleaners etc whilst you continue to pay vast amounts for management and players is neither ethical or very community minded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Asking the tax payer to pay for your cleaners etc whilst you continue to pay vast amounts for management and players is neither ethical or very community minded.

...not really....the key here is that nobody doesnt get their full wage during this crisis or 'force majuere'

Whatever your opinion is of professional footballers ,its not their fault that there is a global pandemic....just as it isnt any high earning exec in any other company

...basic fact of the matter is the 'furlough' system will cover non playing staffs wages (with the 20% club top up) ....it wont for the players...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I don't have an issue with us using the scheme IF the high earners at our club (players/management/coaches etc) show they are also sharing the burden as well.

By temporarily getting rid of all your low earners, and only paying 20% of their wages, we are saying we can't afford to pay them to do nothing while we've got a reduced income. Fair enough. We must protect the clubs future and if they think we need to do that to ensure we are OK at the end of this all that's fine. 

But then all the high earners do nothing? Just let the cash keep rolling in to them and out of the club? Apparently putting our club at risk? All of the senior players will earn more in a week than most of the low earners get in a year. If the club are that worried about us that they are reducing the low earners out-goings by 80%, then to do nothing about the high earners, then that just sits with me as so so wrong.

I know they can't order the players/management/coaches to take a pay cut - contracts have been signed - but the club should be making it very clear to them (and hopefully they are) about what is the morally right thing to do. 

Is this not a true test of whether we truly are a 'community' club, as we often hear said? Are those just words or do they really mean anything to some at the club? 

Whatever your views about the morals of this either way, it looks bl00dy terrible.

OTBC

Edited by Disco Dales Jockstrap
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it, though?  BA execs earn tonnes, the difference is what, precisely?

Govt schemes are there for employers to use and they do for all sorts of things. I don’t know for sure but imagine football clubs use apprentice schemes and so on, should they be prevented from doing so?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I expect all big earners at any company to do their share. Name and Shame.

I think it is good that our players have donated £200K to good causes but that doesn't address the real problem. If they all chucked in £10K to these causes that could be from savings but they will still get their full pay check onfriday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

Is it, though?  BA execs earn tonnes, the difference is what, 

The difference is that this club has a much higher proportion of its wage bill going to the super rich than BA.   Cuts to BA exec pay wont save the airline but sacrificing player salary will meet the non-playing staff bill here I would imagine.

Let's be clear, this scheme is diverting money away from essential public services and into the pockets of the already ridiculously wealthy who will be required to do precisely nothing for the pay. Is that justifiable?

And why can we not put players on furlough? They are employees then same as any number of employees up and down the country.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

 ...
I know they can't order the players/management/coaches to take a pay cut - contracts have been signed ....

That's a valid point.
Would the same not apply to at least some of the clubs other income streams too then (e.g. advertising)?
Similarly, would the players also not have other sources of income? So it's not like they'll be bereft of all income as it seems to be being suggested.

This point cuts both ways I guess. If the clubs profit from some of our players names then maybe the players are due part of that.

It's all getting too complicated, I'm going down the pub ... oh no ...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...