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36 minutes ago, Bill said:

we are all to some extent violent, dishonest, greedy, selfish etc

humans have a great capacity for behaving in many ways

however that does not vindicate disco's guff, which amounts to no more than a quite hamfisted attempt to deflect from Johnson's incompetence by suggesting  that evidence of that is just one side trying to score points

and that people are not capable of reasoned thought over and above some supposed tribal allegiance - which is absolute bollox, as why would so much be spent on 'propoganda' ?

Johnson's limitations have been exposed, as was always going to happen at some point, and the real lesson from that is why some feel the need to try to deny what is obvious to the rest of us

Christ on a bike - you haven't even got the brain power to interpret what I was saying correctly.

Just going on yet another tired rant about bl00dy Boris. It's like watching a dog chase its fecking tail!

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with a professional idiot.

Rant away Bigotty Bill. 🤯

OTBC

 

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10 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Social media activists won this government's term in office!    Much of it promoted, even pushed out there by the Conservatives who have all the finances and backing of big businesses (in whose interests they operate) ........  the vilification of Corbyn being typical!    No, i'm not a lefty but that is fact!     These statements are so ironic though!     Talking of the views of the country as a whole, refer back to FCL's very true comment earlier 'People seem to prefer Johnson telling lies to Corbyn telling the truth'.

Are you saying there are no social media activists on the left?

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8 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

What game were you watching!     The Tories spent something like £5m on propaganda compared to Labours £200K!      How else do you think they were able to mask all their lies!    Trust you agree that regardless of Labour, the Tories lied and lied and lied and threw in a tiny bit of massive bulls**t during that campaign.     Recommend 'The Great Hack' on Netflix to anyone easily influenced by social media - scary how the public are so easily manipulated by the wealthy.

Going back to the point, I wasn't the one that brought up Media activists!    Just commenting on the actual influence they had!    For the record, I'm no Corbynite, he couldn't fight his corner, was weak and thus not leadership material but I prefer to make my own mind up rather than be taken in by all the garbage that's put out there.      

I've been led to believe that the Labour party membership is the largest of any in Europe. If that is the case I wonder why they could only stump up a measly £200k on propaganda, as you describe it. Indeed, if I were a member of the Labour party, knowing how much money is raised at election time, I would want to know where has all my money gone?

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1 hour ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

 

Christ on a bike - you haven't even got the brain power to interpret what I was saying correctly.

Just going on yet another tired rant about bl00dy Boris. It's like watching a dog chase its fecking tail!

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with a professional idiot.

Rant away Bigotty Bill. 🤯

OTBC

oh dear, methinks I have hit a raw nerve

disco (or whoever he is) is not too happy with evidence - much better to make up stuff from fairly vague polls instead

guff about voter satisfaction are pretty meaningless, just as polls showing 805 wanted to bring back capital punishment, and those in the US hwo think Trump is doing a good job over theis pandemic

those views simply reflect the bias views they have been fed, whereby in times of national disaster, the leader is shown more and folk rally round

so what next ?

disco's extrapolation on how drunk the UK is ..... according to polls taken on News Years Eve

the reality is that most haven't the slightest idea of how decisions are taken or implemented, not the slightest idea of how Parliament, the judicial system of the executive work so their views are about as worthy as are mine on how the Vatican functions

though I am sure if you asked a few hundred catholics whether they were satisfied with how the pope is doing things enough would say yes..........................though I am not sure what that would prove, other than as some hoped for distraction from failings of the Catholic church

as the bottom line is what is the real intent behind your posts - one, I suspect, which is to try and claim that criticism of Johnson's shambolic leadership is not down to reality, or the evidence put out by experts working in the fieldf, but 'tribalism', merely partisan views, that's all nothing more..... -

......whereas the only partisan view is your own as you try to spin this away from valid evidence to conjecture based on some worthless poll

 

being as there is so much evidence of his incompetence actually highlights your own partisan defence of this eejit amounts to bigoted bollox

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7 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

I've been led to believe that the Labour party membership is the largest of any in Europe. If that is the case I wonder why they could only stump up a measly £200k on propaganda, as you describe it. Indeed, if I were a member of the Labour party, knowing how much money is raised at election time, I would want to know where has all my money gone?

you found the answer to your first question.    Trust you don’t deny that Tory policies suit big businesses, for example they get away without paying the full taxes.... these big businesses in turn donate lots of money to the Tory party as its in their interests that the Tories win elections so that they retain the wealth.... richer get richer!    It’s not about funding by party membership, that’s insignificant in the whole scheme of things.    
 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, ron obvious said:

Sorry I judge others to be as bright as me. I believe nothing without corroboration & I believe most people are the same.

I know many people you might not regard as not very intelligent & they display a huge amount of scepticism.

Generally people trust their own life experiences over what they're told . They're not the gullible fools you seem to think.

 

People are all different, as much so in intelligence.  How are most people the same?     Does everyone leave school with 5 B grade GSCE’s for example.   No they don’t’.     

Corroborate your statement ‘Corbyn vilified himself every time he opened his nasty, vindictive, mean, bitter little mouth‘..... as that statement seems to follow all the propaganda put out there.....   he may not have much charisma or leadership skill but when he speaks, there’s no denying he cares about people, how was he nasty, mean or vindictive?

As for gullible... oh yes they are!   How else would they believe all the propaganda and if they didn’t why would a party spend so much on it! 
 

50000 new police officers 

20000 new nurses

40 new hospitals.....

we’ll see!

Edited by ged in the onion bag

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15 hours ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

Hello Badger! :classic_biggrin: You aren't going to let me rest are you!!! Man, I'm going to have to bring out the big guns!!!

Hi DDJ, sorry I don't recognise your figures - are they from the same survey. I include a link to the full survey below:

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/fxydtk8mdw/Results for Coronavirus Tracker GB - Wave 3_27.03.2020_w.pdf

Page 3 of 4 shows that 63% of Remain voters think that the govt is doing well and only 31% think it is doing badly. If it were a "tribal thing" and people decided according to the group in which they belong you would not get a result anything like this - you would expect Remain voters would side with their tribe and be against the "leader of the leavers," but this isn't the case: by a majority of over 2 to 1, they believe that the "leave-led govt" is doing well.

Equally a far higher proportion of labour voters think the Conservative govt is doing well than badly over the issue (56 to 36) - they are 1.6 times more likely to think that the govt is doing well rather than badly. It is even more pronounced with Lib Dems (66 to 29) - they are 2.3 times more likely to think that the govt is doing well rather than badly. If the majority of people (and nearly twice as many!) decide on a way that is different from what you might expect their tribe to predicted by tribe behaviour, then tribal loyalty cannot be seen as the determining factor in how people view the issue. That is not to say that there is no evidence of tribal thought - there is, but it is clearly NOT the determining factor.

One interesting point from the data, again page 3 is the regional variation. It is quite striking that the percentage of people in London, where the virus is affecting more people are far less likely to believe that the govt is doing well. It will be interesting to see if this is replicated as more areas become badly affected. If they follow the London example, it would suggest that the govt's popularity on the issue may decline. We shall see.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Badger said:

Hi DDJ, sorry I don't recognise your figures - are they from the same survey. I include a link to the full survey below:

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/fxydtk8mdw/Results for Coronavirus Tracker GB - Wave 3_27.03.2020_w.pdf

Page 3 of 4 shows that 63% of Remain voters think that the govt is doing well and only 31% think it is doing badly. If it were a "tribal thing" and people decided according to the group in which they belong you would not get a result anything like this - you would expect Remain voters would side with their tribe and be against the "leader of the leavers," but this isn't the case: by a majority of over 2 to 1, they believe that the "leave-led govt" is doing well.

Equally a far higher proportion of labour voters think the Conservative govt is doing well than badly over the issue (56 to 36) - they are 1.6 times more likely to think that the govt is doing well rather than badly. It is even more pronounced with Lib Dems (66 to 29) - they are 2.3 times more likely to think that the govt is doing well rather than badly. If the majority of people (and nearly twice as many!) decide on a way that is different from what you might expect their tribe to predicted by tribe behaviour, then tribal loyalty cannot be seen as the determining factor in how people view the issue. That is not to say that there is no evidence of tribal thought - there is, but it is clearly NOT the determining factor.

One interesting point from the data, again page 3 is the regional variation. It is quite striking that the percentage of people in London, where the virus is affecting more people are far less likely to believe that the govt is doing well. It will be interesting to see if this is replicated as more areas become badly affected. If they follow the London example, it would suggest that the govt's popularity on the issue may decline. We shall see.

 

 

Hiya Badger! Hope all is good with you. Yes, that's the poll.

63-31=32% net positive from remainers. Net positive/net negative is an easy way to show how well something is thought of. They often do it when rating politicians or policies. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

I haven't really got much to add to what I said yesterday; you've worn me out! In my opinion, a big chunk of the population will always be swayed in their views by past political affiliation, especially if they are ingrained by their life experiences, families, work life etc. etc. That doesn't mean all voters are - some will simply be guided by the information they are given and make a judgment, whatever that may be.

I try to stay out of discussions on here that aren't involving football but with being stuck at home I got sucked in! I don't think we are a million miles apart from each other to be honest.

Whatever political affiliation the voters are, the majority do seem to think the government are doing OK. Are they? And how do you even rate what 'OK' really is? Who knows! It's very difficult to compare countries like for like and a global situation like this is unprecedented in the modern world. The inevitable public inquiries that will happen around the world, once this is all over, will be the true answer to that. I think we can safely say that South Korea will come out of it well.

Thank you for your polite and reasoned thoughts on this matter. 👍

OTBC

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To be honest, the realisation that the Government will bail people out financially is the correct thing to do and probably the main reason people think they are doing OK. The clinical side will only be measured once we reach our peak. But it is obvious that those at the pit face of the NHS think they are not doing enough.

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8 hours ago, Bill said:

oh dear, methinks I have hit a raw nerve

disco (or whoever he is) is not too happy with evidence - much better to make up stuff from fairly vague polls instead

Oh do me a favour Bigotty Bill. The only emotional reciprocation you get from me is amusement (at you) and embarrassment (for you).

You have a lack of self-awareness that even an amoeba on Saturn would be proud of.

...and yes! I'm not really me...I'm...who? Who am I? Sherlock Bigotty strikes again! Always inferring but never coming to the punchline. Come on now. Do tell, you little tease. 😘 

I'm not Boris am I? I haven't got 350 million to spare!!! And I certainly wouldn't shake your hand. 

OTBC

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I think bill might be the confirmation of my bias hypothesis.

Not only did he have a predetermined opinion on the government response but so keen is he to express it that he has mistaken an entirely politically neutral discussion of cognitive biases in action for a wave of support for Boris that needs to be suppressed.

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2 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

People are all different, as much so in intelligence.  How are most people the same?     Does everyone leave school with 5 B grade GSCE’s for example.   No they don’t’.     

Corroborate your statement ‘Corbyn vilified himself every time he opened his nasty, vindictive, mean, bitter little mouth‘..... as that statement seems to follow all the propaganda put out there.....   he may not have much charisma or leadership skill but when he speaks, there’s no denying he cares about people, how was he nasty, mean or vindictive?

As for gullible... oh yes they are!   How else would they believe all the propaganda and if they didn’t why would a party spend so much on it! 
 

50000 new police officers 

20000 new nurses

40 new hospitals.....

we’ll see!

I call what I see. I had no opinion about Corbyn before I saw him interviewed. If anything I'm a contrarian - I instinctively disbelieve things I'm told by anyone, on the grounds that it'll only be part of the truth.

Most of the propaganda I've seen about Corbyn tells me what a wonderful, caring human being he is. Unfortunately from day one all I have ever seen is a hate filled nasty little man. I've never seen anything to make me change my mind - despite the fact I often agree about things that are wrong with society. His solutions come from a visceral hatred of anyone rich, not a love of humanity.

What the **** have GSCE's got to do with anything? It's a very limited guide to intelligence. I've known some very naive, gullible people with lots of qualifications. And it has absolutely no bearing on how they are as people. Spending on propaganda is of very little use in a society like ours where contrary evidence is so easily available.

You really don't seem to understand very much. The Tories are desperate to stay in power, so they give people what they want. If they want; if they want immigration controlled, then they'll do it. If more spending on the NHS is popular, they'll do it. There may be more saying than doing, but they know if they keep prevaricating they'll get thrown out next election.

Most of us have no trust in Tories per se. However, we do believe they've learnt the lesson of history, the lesson that more wealth is generated in a free democracy. They'll always tend to try & keep the bulk of that wealth for themselves, thus we expect venality & self interest to be a continual risk within their ranks, so we keep them under continual scrutiny. However when members of the Labour Party are guilty of such shortcomings it's truly shocking; they have to be above all that or they are nothing.

Corbyn has marginalised the Labour Party to an unprecedented degree. If they don't get back into the mainstream soon they'll die, which would be tragic for this country.

 

 

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53 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

I call what I see. I had no opinion about Corbyn before I saw him interviewed. If anything I'm a contrarian - I instinctively disbelieve things I'm told by anyone, on the grounds that it'll only be part of the truth.

Most of the propaganda I've seen about Corbyn tells me what a wonderful, caring human being he is. Unfortunately from day one all I have ever seen is a hate filled nasty little man. I've never seen anything to make me change my mind - despite the fact I often agree about things that are wrong with society. His solutions come from a visceral hatred of anyone rich, not a love of humanity.

What the **** have GSCE's got to do with anything? It's a very limited guide to intelligence. I've known some very naive, gullible people with lots of qualifications. And it has absolutely no bearing on how they are as people. Spending on propaganda is of very little use in a society like ours where contrary evidence is so easily available.

You really don't seem to understand very much. The Tories are desperate to stay in power, so they give people what they want. If they want; if they want immigration controlled, then they'll do it. If more spending on the NHS is popular, they'll do it. There may be more saying than doing, but they know if they keep prevaricating they'll get thrown out next election.

Most of us have no trust in Tories per se. However, we do believe they've learnt the lesson of history, the lesson that more wealth is generated in a free democracy. They'll always tend to try & keep the bulk of that wealth for themselves, thus we expect venality & self interest to be a continual risk within their ranks, so we keep them under continual scrutiny. However when members of the Labour Party are guilty of such shortcomings it's truly shocking; they have to be above all that or they are nothing.

Corbyn has marginalised the Labour Party to an unprecedented degree. If they don't get back into the mainstream soon they'll die, which would be tragic for this country.

 

 

What an absolute load of contradictory and diabolical guff!

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There is a direct comparison with the labour promises to spend spend spend of recent elections and the tories who under Boris have become a bit more savvy and totally bought in to the same talk of spend spend spend.  Will they actually spend that much? I doubt it, there isn't enough money - there was never enough to finance labours plans and there won't be enough to finance the fanciful stuff the tories have been coming out with.  They talk a good game, but it is just talk. 

As for Corbyn, his flawed methods of always trying to be fair to both sides of an argument have led him to nowhere.  Always appearing to be on the fence, or trying to side with both sides at the same time, which is never going to work in politics. 

Genuinely strong leaders are rare. Boris should never have come near being PM, but we are stuck with him and it is largely through Corbyn's failure and that failure has been more than just a failure for the labour party, it has affected the whole country as a result. 

We could do with a strong leader who can galvanise his government.  I like Boris in some ways, despite his total incompetence - he is affable, a bit of a duffer, makes mistakes the whole time but gets away with it, says what people want to hear because he wants to be popular - he even fancies himself as being  a strong leader, a kind of Churchill figure, which is kind of nice to see as there is nothing wrong with aiming high.

Labour are a busted flush, Corbyn was just another step on the downward path and hopefully we will see some other party emerge - a liberal/green alliance or some such.  As for the tories, they have to live up to their one nation party mantra now like never before. They have the mandate having filled the vacuum left by labour.  Well done Jeremy and your party, through you we now have an unhindered tory party in charge for five years.  

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46 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

What an absolute load of contradictory and diabolical guff!

What's contradictory?

 

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3 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

What an absolute load of contradictory and diabolical guff!

you'll get used to it

the usual method is to make up stuff you have not said and reply to that (see Aggy above), coupled with claims that are intended to appear 'universally acknowledged' but are little more than expressions of their own bigotry

that there is a pattern running through these ppsts should not be a surprise either - nor that barbe bleu has suddenly appeared full of the same guff - are we to assume he has only just discovered this forum, or disco who spent his time before this slagging off the club in his ingrequent posts (look them up)..... maybe that explains the need to now post OTBC

the bottom line is he/they ? are rabid rightwingers who will post whatever they think attacks Labour, hence the twaddle about irrelevant polls - and rebuttal has you down as a Corbyn lover - previously any rebuttal of attacks on Diane Abbott would have one  down as a n***** lover

that I am no great lover of either's politics matters little to them, they are the 'devil' and so any association with then, however tenuous can be dragged out as an excuse not to substantiate their comments

but, he/they do provide a laugh....if only his/their self congratulatory posts where each log in tells the other one how good they are ....and the question is, which log in will next make a re-appearance ?

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Poor old Billsh1te can’t forgive Boris for ‘getting Brexit done’. It made his years of ranting about how it would never happen show him to be an arrogant to$$er who actually knows pretty much FA on whatever topic he spews his bile.

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1 minute ago, ricardo said:

Oh dear, we are back to multi log in ID's.

👍

I'm Ricardo.....Who the hell are you?.....

  • Haha 1

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Posted (edited)

I am still trying to work out how i got him banned and i quote ' for a few hours ' . 🙄

 

Edited by TIL 1010

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Bill said:

 

that there is a pattern running through these ppsts should not be a surprise either - nor that barbe bleu has suddenly appeared full of the same guff - are we to assume he has only just discovered this forum, l

the bottom line is he/they ? are rabid rightwingers 

but, he/they do provide a laugh....if only his/their self congratulatory posts where each log in tells the other one how good they are ....

For the avoidance of doubt:

1)I have only one log in

2) I have found myself at home a lot recently and this more able to post

3) I have a genuine interest in thus debate

4) I am not rabidly right wing.  Furthermore, I am not sure where I have stated a firm political opinion that could be described as either right or left wing on this forum

5) I posted here about the psychology of biases in a politically neutral manner

Edited by Barbe bleu

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26 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

I'm Ricardo.....Who the hell are you?.....

I'm Negan

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I think Bill/City 1st is actually being very clever here - he’s actually all the users he claims are the same person, and is just talking to himself.

WE ARE ALL CITY 1ST 🤪

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7 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Looks like the victim card has now been played.

Not surprising you are upset about my comment re Diane Abbott - and it pretty much backs my point

Shame you never have any point other than to make digs aimed at the poster

I wonder why that is............ or perhaps I already know

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3 minutes ago, Bill said:

Not surprising you are upset about my comment re Diane Abbott - and it pretty much backs my point

Shame you never have any point other than to make digs aimed at the poster

I wonder why that is............ or perhaps I already know

Oh dear me.

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6 hours ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

Oh do me a favour Bigotty Bill. The only emotional reciprocation you get from me is amusement (at you) and embarrassment (for you).

You have a lack of self-awareness that even an amoeba on Saturn would be proud of.

...and yes! I'm not really me...I'm...who? Who am I? Sherlock Bigotty strikes again! Always inferring but never coming to the punchline. Come on now. Do tell, you little tease. 😘 

I'm not Boris am I? I haven't got 350 million to spare!!! And I certainly wouldn't shake your hand. 

OTBC

and if any confirmation were need up he pops with guff about Johnson and £350m - stuff that I have not mentioned but he feels it a 'vote winner' to deny

maybe he has cranked himself up too much, as not many minutes previous he told us all

" i'm not going to waste my time arguing with a professional idiot. "

shame that, you almost posted up something that was not a lie - being paid for some panto work over Xmas I would say that qualified me as a 'professional idiot' , maybe as an expert in the field you could tell us whether your status as a liar is only amateur....somethung to fill in while you are in isolation

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29 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

I think Bill/City 1st is actually being very clever here - he’s actually all the users he claims are the same person, and is just talking to himself.

WE ARE ALL CITY 1ST 🤪

And  so are our wives!

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13 minutes ago, Bill said:

shame that, you almost posted up something that was not a lie - being paid for some panto work over Xmas I would say that qualified me as a 'professional idiot'

Now now Bill, self advertisement is no recomendation😀

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