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Corbyn Speaks

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2 hours ago, Van wink said:

Bill's big on Jezza

I think that’s a private matter for both of them

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56 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

I’m not reading that!!!! He’s just stating facts.... you don’t have to be a Corbynite or a leftie to see that the Tories and Johnson are incompetent.       Dumbing him down has become a typical response to avoid facing the facts.   The NHS staff have been let down by this lot since they took charge!    Corbyn’s hardly leadership material but the NHS would likely be better prepared had labour been running the show!

Possibly.   But would they have invested in what is needed in this emergency or in other areas that whilst hugely important might not be what we need right now

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1 minute ago, Barbe bleu said:

Possibly.   But would they have invested in what is needed in this emergency or in other areas that whilst hugely important might not be what we need right now

Well if Gordon Brown's response to the 2008 crisis is any guide to what they would have done this time around then the answer is very clearly yes, and not only that they would have done so more promptly and more competently.

This is not a Government with a plan, it is a Government in panic mode making it all up on the hoof because they ignored all the warning signs and made no preparations until it was too late.

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3 hours ago, C.I.D said:

'Slow' maybe in the eyes of all the amateur 'experts' and 'know-it-alls' ............but in the context of the barely-believable scale of what was to hit us then surely some credit should be given for the unprecedented package of measures put in place to help everybody in the country.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing,isn't it ?

I’m sure hindsight could have been taken from the Italian situation 

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3 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

 Corbyn’s hardly leadership material but the NHS would likely be better prepared had labour been running the show!

Comedy statement of the year.....

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19 minutes ago, splendidrush said:

Comedy statement of the year.....

Given that this government had NO preperations in place then even your desperate forelock tugging fails miserably

And you might care to listen to these well informed words from Question Time tonight that echo my words from a few hours earlier

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18339025.watch-lancet-editor-slams-tories-clapping-nhs-hypocrisy/

but don't forget to tug at your forelock (?) afterwards as your betters cannot be challenged, or shown to have lied

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Pretty weird those shouting about this not being the times for politics, yet having a dig at the opposition leader..  Probably the same people who voted with the Tories to refuse the give the NHS staff inflation pay rises in the last 20 years but clapped them out on the street yesterday. 

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6 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Pretty weird those shouting about this not being the times for politics, yet having a dig at the opposition leader..  Probably the same people who voted with the Tories to refuse the give the NHS staff inflation pay rises in the last 20 years but clapped them out on the street yesterday. 

Interesting that the 'now is not the time to discuss this' line is the same one the RWNJ's, gun advocates and Fox News talking heads come up with when there's a mass shooting in the USA.

 

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6 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Pretty weird those shouting about this not being the times for politics, yet having a dig at the opposition leader..  Probably the same people who voted with the Tories to refuse the give the NHS staff inflation pay rises in the last 20 years but clapped them out on the street yesterday. 

 

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What an utter disgrace some of you lot are using a medical worldwide crisis to try and point score. 
The government are doing a creditable job managing the situation. When it is all over it will be interesting to compare mortalities as a % of population to judge how well covid-19 has been managed bu the western nations. 

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Lots of people saying that the government was ill-prepared for this crisis.. What should they have done differently before we knew what covid was ?

I have read about eye wear  being limited (although no one is really sure what this all means) but what else has been lacking?

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1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

Lots of people saying that the government was ill-prepared for this crisis.. What should they have done differently before we knew what covid was ?

I have read about eye wear  being limited (although no one is really sure what this all means) but what else has been lacking?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/28/chaos-and-panic-lancet-editor-says-nhs-was-left-unprepared-for-covid-19

The NHS could have prevented “chaos and panic” had the system not been left “wholly unprepared for this pandemic”, the editor of a British medical journal has said.

Numerous warnings were issued but these were not heeded, Richard Horton wrote in The Lancet. He cited an example from his journal on 20 January, pointing to a global epidemic: “Preparedness plans should be readied for deployment at short notice, including securing supply chains of pharmaceuticals, personal protective equipment, hospital supplies and the necessary human resources to deal with the consequences of a global outbreak of this magnitude.”

Dr Horton wrote that the government’s Contain-Delay-Mitigate-Research plan had failed. “It failed, in part, because ministers didn’t follow WHO’s advice to ‘test, test, test’ every suspected case. They didn’t isolate and quarantine. They didn’t contact trace.

“These basic principles of public health and infectious disease control were ignored, for reasons that remain opaque.

“The result has been chaos and panic across the NHS.”

 

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22 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

 securing supply chains of pharmaceuticals, personal protective equipment, hospital supplies and the necessary human resources to deal with the consequences of a global outbreak of this magnitude.”

 

 

Thank you.

I have not read anywhere that there is a lack of pharmaceutical, supplies and HR. Is this corroborated elsewhere?

I still dont know of the PPE issue is down to a lack of supply or distribution.

I guess that things are developing far too rapidly for this level of analysis to be made and opinions are being exchanged on the basis of what little information there is.

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13 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Pretty weird those shouting about this not being the times for politics, yet having a dig at the opposition leader..  Probably the same people who voted with the Tories to refuse the give the NHS staff inflation pay rises in the last 20 years but clapped them out on the street yesterday. 

I couldn't care less if he's the opposition leader or who he is. Simply while economies are being ruined and lifes lost arcross the world that no one stands up to say that they was right all along.

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8 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I guess that things are developing far too rapidly for this level of analysis to be made and opinions are being exchanged on the basis of what little information there is.

Not correct as there is, in fact, abundant evidence of the failings - that is what is upsetting the bigots as they desperately scrabble around for excuses.

Evidence that the UK government has weaselled from one position to another - each time ending in the position medical experts were demanding earlier. Neither is it correct to claim that this is 'unpredented' as is being done elsewhere. The SARS outbreak showed what could happen - and a request for the necessary equipment to be stockpiled was refuse on the basis it would be too expensive.

Just as rerpeated warnings about staffing and pay levels in the NHS were flagged up repreatedly before this outbreak. Who cut the nusring bursary in 2015 - and what cretin claims that nurses can now simply be magiced up to replace them. They can'. Those already in the pipeline are well down on previous levels. Thousands who have been trained have left citing poor pay and poor working conditions.

It is not about there being a right time either. becaus I suspect it is you hoping that these gross failings might be forgotten - as with the Russian report into electoral interference and Johnson's misuse of public funds to pay his then floozy. To say there is something rotten at the heart of UK politics is to understate the level of incompetence - but is also to ignore the bleats from the likes of the lickspittles above who  will do their best to deny the blindingly obvious.

The parrot is not dead is it crazy ?

 

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11 minutes ago, KiwiScot said:

I couldn't care less if he's the opposition leader or who he is. Simply while economies are being ruined and lifes lost arcross the world that no one stands up to say that they was right all along.

Just be thankful that level of stupidity didn't hold sway in 1940.

And it is only because those who knew they were right spoke out forcibly over the past two months that the necessary changes have been brought about.

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24 minutes ago, Bill said:

Just be thankful that level of stupidity didn't hold sway in 1940.

And it is only because those who knew they were right spoke out forcibly over the past two months that the necessary changes have been brought about.

Where have you been for the last two months?......

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Watching the UK government making u-turns, climb downs and mistake after mistake

Stay out of the pubs, schools to stay open, don't travel, unless you have a second home. herd instinct good, now bad, EU bulk buying bad, now good............,

a total shambles

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54 minutes ago, Bill said:

Not correct as there is, in fact, abundant evidence of the failings 

 

The way I see it we need four things in the NHS right now.  Medical equipment (ventilators etc),  PPE for staff, Sufficient beds (esp ICU) and trained staff.

Put aside the politics do we presently have these?  Dont give me opinion, give me facts 

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1 minute ago, Barbe bleu said:

The way I see it we need four things in the NHS right now.  Medical equipment (ventilators etc),  PPE for staff, Sufficient beds (esp ICU) and trained staff.

Put aside the politics do we presently have these?  Dont give me opinion, give me facts 

oh dear

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1 minute ago, Barbe bleu said:

 

Put aside the politics

Good luck with that Bb.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Bill said:

oh dear

What? It's a reasonable question.

I would like facts and figures for these things.  I am not expressing  an opinion on whether or not the government has failed or is failing as I have very little information on which to base an opinion.

You are quite sure that we have failed so I have asked for the facts on which you have formed your opinion.

Edited by Barbe bleu

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

What? It's a reasonable question.

One that is based upon opinion. So why cannot the reply be the same ?

oh dear, poor plod....basic logic seems to confuse him

Edited by Bill
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Ok, let's try another way then.

You are suggesting that the government has failed to prepare us for this crisis.

What would you say are the things the NHS needs most right now and where might i look to see if it has them?

I would like to see primary data rather than a purely opinion piece as I would like to be able to draw my own conclusions.

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1 hour ago, Bill said:

Just be thankful that level of stupidity didn't hold sway in 1940.

Yes, yes, yes! I so agree. If only we'd had a great leader like Jezza in 1940, I'm sure the war would have turned out quite differently... 😱 

OTBC

 

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7 hours ago, Crafty Canary said:

What an utter disgrace some of you lot are using a medical worldwide crisis to try and point score. 
The government are doing a creditable job managing the situation. When it is all over it will be interesting to compare mortalities as a % of population to judge how well covid-19 has been managed bu the western nations. 

Conversely, it's fair to hold the government to account when the NHS front line staff don't have adequate protective equipment, and testing of NHS staff has only recently begun. Shielding NHS staff is a critical factor in getting through this, and the government have totally botched it.

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Was

4 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

What? It's a reasonable question.

I would like facts and figures for these things.  I am not expressing  an opinion on whether or not the government has failed or is failing as I have very little information on which to base an opinion.

You are quite sure that we have failed so I have asked for the facts on which you have formed your opinion.

The government at the election admitted that they were short of 50'000 nurses etc which is having 100% a problem in dealing with this pandemic. The shortages are a direct result of the governments austerity policies. 

The government "misplaced" paperwork, as admitted this week, meaning we missed the chance to get more ventilators with the EU which, as we know means more deaths.

The Times reported that Cummings was the man that was moving towards a "herd immunity" solution at the beginning (what is we lose a few pensioners)  and this caused us 2 to 3 weeks delaying isolation and we will now see far more deaths.

Now, in an emergency is 100% the time to question all decisions made by our leaders, it's not the "blitz" spirit that will solve this but bright intelligent well thought out decisions.

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4 hours ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

Yes, yes, yes! I so agree. If only we'd had a great leader like Jezza in 1940, I'm sure the war would have turned out quite differently..

Whereas it was the left who wanted tp comtinue with the war. It was the right who sought tp appease the Germans and tried to negotiate some kind of peace.It was those naughty lefties who had fought the Nazis and Franco in Spain who were behind the Auxilary units and the type of fighting back of the SOE.

And decisions are not made by a leader. This was not 1540 with a King in charge, it was 1940 where decisions are made at committee level. Where the coalition government was formed that needed the support and backbone of the left to sustain it. The left did not have friends in high places connected to Germany.

And renind us all who the voters turned to in 1945 to clear up the mess and rebuild the country ....... Lord Haw Haw, Oswald Mosely...Churchill even ?

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Hmmm, wasn't there a big row about this recently?🤔

 

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On 27/03/2020 at 23:47, splendidrush said:

Comedy statement of the year.....

So would ‘Johnson’s hardly leadership material etc....’ but we ended up with that.   Says a lot for the state we’re in!   

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