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sonyc

National League null and void

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I doubt  it will be cut in half etc

Remember during the World and EU cup games are being played in July.

The thought appears to be to run them through in maybe six weeks so as to tie up the financial side of things, then maybe start back first week of September. They've already proposed a means to extend the June 30th contract deadline

Just would mean an extra three or so evening games through the season.

Income lost in say the National League can be covered by 'football' in general. PL money is eye watering and so can on;y be covered by TV.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Bill said:

The point is player contracts are water tight,

If the TV money is not forthcoming ie the 20% or so due where to the clubs get their momey from ?  If they think they can raid next seasons income then they are merely deferring the problem.

A club's outgoings are based on what they will receive over this season. Default by not paying and they lose, which would send finacial waves right down the leagues ie what we owe Coventry for the youngster

Its quite simple really because the clubs are not going to get their Sky money because the games cannot be played. Its time they faced facts instead of attempting to fiddle the impossible. The Olympic committee  have faced it as have Wimbledon  and Horse Racing and football cannot be immune. You are right about the financial wave but there is simply no way to avoid it. Humpty Dumpty cannot be put back together again.

There is no solution that won't engender a legal challenge and as usual only the lawyers will profit.

Edited by ricardo
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18 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

You’ve phrased it perfectly well Hillhead. It’s clearly something that will come into play if things drag on long enough. It’s easy enough to understand.

Especially when you consider that the teams most likely to go out of business get naff all sky money as it is. It's gate receipts they need. Of course finishing this season and then getting next year's rushed (but still playing all the games) by May 2021 leaves them stronger in the long term but In the short term I don't believe they will survive having to restart twice. Better off just writing this one off and getting the new one underway (if it comes to that)

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The difference is of their 'programme' so there is not the losses. those three sports have not completed 75%

I suspect Wimbledon and Horse racing do not generate such a high percentage of their income from TV coverage as do the PL

With the Olympics nothing really is lost as it will be held in 2021. Look at Heysell when the game carried on.

These games can quite easily be played 'behind closed doors'.Without the money 'if' TV companies are not liable to pay the rest then pro football will go bust - it is as simple as that.

I can't say I will shed too many tears on behalf of agents, players etc so I am not backing this, merely pointing out how it stands

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Hillhead said:

Especially when you consider that the teams most likely to go out of business get naff all sky money as it is. It's gate receipts they need. Of course finishing this season and then getting next year's rushed (but still playing all the games) by May 2021 leaves them stronger in the long term but In the short term I don't believe they will survive having to restart twice. Better off just writing this one off and getting the new one underway (if it comes to that)

EH ! ! ! ! !

If the PL just 'writes this off' there will not be clubs to start a new season, They will have to default on meeting contracts which can only be done by bankruptcy.

Rushing through games three at a time over the w/e and midweek will take a month or so ( June) then it is a short break and start again early Sept

Have a look at City's accounts and tell me where they can find the £25 m plus to cover the shortfall

 

Edited by Bill

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I think the idea that football can suspend belief when we are in the middle of a world health emergency is for the birds.

What can't happen, won't happen.

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Actually there is a degree of consensus.

the financial implications would be disastrous, if not catastrophic.

The leagues will do everything that is possible complete the season.

There must come a point, eventually, when it becomes impossible or counterproductive to delay next season.

if we ever get to that point this season will be abandoned and a decision made over how best to restart the next season because that will be the least worst option

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How about every team stays in the league they’re in, but at the beginning of the next season, all teams start with the points they’re on now? Seems fairly fair to me. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Hairy Canary said:

Thanks. 
 

The scenario I painted was based on what would happen if next season was disrupted by more than the nine games we have remaining. Clearly that point wouldn’t have been reached if next season starts just a month or so late.

Losing 50% of next seasons income in order to save the 20% remaining of this one would be plain silly, Billy.

Indeed one top columnist has already seriously suggested the PL season must be played to a finish even if it means going to the end of the year so there is only time next season for clubs to play each other once!

If the Pl. could guarantee to finish its season by the end of June it would make sense but the notion that this can be achieved by playing behind closed doors misses the overriding point that the moment the virus strikes a club once the season restarts the whole plan gets thrown out of whack.

If as the government says this is not going to reach a peak until June then the chances of  all clubs (not just in the PL) gong through a delayed restart that month without falling victim are pretty slim.

The only certainties are that there is no flawless solution to this and that any supposed solution is bound to provoke legal action. With the near certainty that the longer it takes to restart the season the greater number of clubs down the pyramid that will go to the wall, making a mockery of the point of trying to play on to a finish.

Unless predictions about the virus turn out to be overblown there will come a point at which the sensible thing to do is to call a halt to this three-quarters of a season, ideally with a rescue package for the lower leagues, and plan, with fingers firmly crossed, to start the 2020-21 season at the beginning of September, synchronizing it and the transfer window in with the other four major European leagues. 

Edited by PurpleCanary

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12 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Indeed one top columnist has already seriously suggested the PL season must be played to a finish even if it means going to the end of the year so there is only time next season for clubs to play each other once!

If the Pl. could guarantee to finish its season by the end of June it would make sense but the notion that this can be achieved by playing behind closed doors misses the overriding point that the moment the virus strikes a club once the season restarts the whole plan gets thrown out of whack.

If as the government says this is not going to reach a peak until June then the chances of  all clubs (not just in the PL) gong through a delayed restart that month without falling victim are pretty slim.

The only certainties are that there is no flawless solution to this and that any supposed solution is bound to provoke legal action. With the near certainty that the longer it takes to restart the season the greater number of clubs down the pyramid that will go to the wall, making a mockery of the point of trying to play on to a finish.

Unless predictions about the virus turn out to be overblown there will come a point at which the sensible thing to do is to call a halt to this three-quarters of a season, ideally with a rescue package for the lower leagues, and plan, with fingers firmly crossed, to start the 2020-21 season at the beginning of September, synchronizing it and the transfer window in with the other four major European leagues. 

Today signs of something on these lines being thought about:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8153545/Radical-save-EFL-clubs-putting-players-sabbatical-Government-help-pay-wages.html

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Just to clear something up. TV payments are made in two tranches each season - in August and in February so there is no outstanding revenue owed to clubs by the leagues for this season.

The EFL’s £50m bailout fund to tide clubs over is actually made up of the upcoming payment for this August.

 

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15 hours ago, Coneys Knee said:

How about every team stays in the league they’re in, but at the beginning of the next season, all teams start with the points they’re on now? Seems fairly fair to me. 

Best suggestion yet, in my view

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14 minutes ago, GenerationA47 said:

Best suggestion yet, in my view

If a season is nul and void then all results are expunged. 

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I would imagine that any and all ideas will be examined and nothing is off the table; these are unprecedented times.

Furloughing footballers and expecting the taxpayer to pick up 80% of their salary is an interesting one.  I doubt it is what the Chancellor had in mind when announcing the scheme!

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The furloughed salaries to be repaid by the Government is up to a maximum of £2,500 per month per person. It would be political suicide for any Govt to promise to cover footballers high wages whilst many others are limited to the basic wage pacakage offered to all other companies.

Playing just half the matches next season whilst completing this season means they would lose half of next season's money but still receiving the 25% of outstanding monies for completing this season. That makes no financial sense at all.

A football club is like any other business, if the cannot pay their players wages, they will either have to make them redundant or come to some agreement about only paying percentage of their salary.

Its football's moment to put its finances back in order and back in the real world.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Belatedly, as with the above, the national media are starting to realise there is football life below the PL and that finishing the PL only makes sense if the other divisions do so as well. So the Mail, for example, now has a piece about how EFL clubs will be hit with loan players' contacts ending on June 30 if the season goes beyond (actually also a problem for PL clubs). A point made here last Sunday:

Leaving aside other obvious and crucial objections, what is odd is that six weeks would take the season past the June 30 date when contracts run out. I know there are plans to get round that, but such plans cannot force players or loaning clubs to go along with them.

The next problem I expect the nationals to discover, probably tomorrow week, is that their calculations for how long it would take to finish the season in the summer have overlooked the point that although in the PL most clubs only have nine matches left to play, in the Championship you have to add two sets of matches to the nine they also have, because of the play-offs, making 11.

And then there is the FA Cup. If it is vital not to deprive Liverpool of the top-flight title (something they have won 18 times already so I fail to see what the big deal is) it is even more crucial to not to deprive us of our first FA Cup win...

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Posted (edited)

Good point, duke - had forgotten that max, so it doesn’t really apply to footballers (though clubs can still presumably recoup something, if only what is a small %) but will to other club employees (who would be covered anyway).

Edited by Branston Pickle

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19 hours ago, Bill said:

The point is player contracts are water tight,

If the TV money is not forthcoming ie the 20% or so due where to the clubs get their momey from ?  If they think they can raid next seasons income then they are merely deferring the problem.

A club's outgoings are based on what they will receive over this season. Default by not paying and they lose, which would send finacial waves right down the leagues ie what we owe Coventry for the youngster

It's not just the players' contracts that are watertight. All the contracts are watertight, whether that be sponsorship deals or TV money or season ticket holders. So if it becomes impossible to perform a contract then the worst case scenario would mean everything going to court and the lawyers getting minted. If football wants to avoid this then they will have to renegotiate all those contracts and the parties involved have to agree to the re-negotiations in order to have a settlement. At this point in time it is difficult to say how these re-negotiations will go because the governing bodies haven't yet made any final decision on what they want to do, but lower league clubs have already said in some cases that player contracts will have to be re-negotiated. If players, sponsors, TV companies, clubs, fans or whoever do not accept this then off to the courts it will go, and the lawyers will get rich.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ricardo said:

If a season is nul and void then all results are expunged. 

Sure, although we’re talking extraordinary times which call for desperate measures. If Leagues, FA, players and TV agree to rules and contract amendments*, the changes can be made. 

*Or at least if a compromise can be engineered which reduces the likelihood of court action and its chance of success

Edited by GenerationA47

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BBC reporting it is only leagues below National League level i.e. North and South plus NL results are to be expunged. Not the National League apparently believe season can be ended.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport

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30 minutes ago, pete said:

BBC reporting it is only leagues below National League level i.e. North and South plus NL results are to be expunged. Not the National League apparently believe season can be ended.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport

Reality slowly seeping up from below.

The rest will be forced to suck the lemon soon.

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And so it starts. South Shields Chairman threatening legal action over today's decision. 

Someone above suggested that everyone started next season with points carried forward from the voided season. That may have just stopped this nonsense 

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4 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

And so it starts. South Shields Chairman threatening legal action over today's decision. 

Someone above suggested that everyone started next season with points carried forward from the voided season. That may have just stopped this nonsense 

And so it starts, football embarassing iteself. Their chairman sounds a right ****. Understand his disappointment but doesn't he realise what is going on and how it compares to the difference between level 6 and level 7 of the pyramid

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On 25/03/2020 at 14:27, Van wink said:

Only a matter of time before all leagues do the same

The FA have stated that all football below National League level is finished. No promotion or relegation. Already South Shields 20 points clear and  in line for promotion to National League North have stayed they will take legal action!

thats going to be par for the course methinks.

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On 25/03/2020 at 13:39, sonyc said:

Kings Lynn's season over as the NL voted to cancel the season because of the virus. No idea what happens to promotion and relegation issues.

Don’t think that’s quite right. The FA voted to stop all football BELOW national league north and south, so Lynns season isn’t over (yet)!

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2 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

Don’t think that’s quite right. The FA voted to stop all football BELOW national league north and south, so Lynns season isn’t over (yet)!

Ah, maybe something to hang on to then? Actually,  I think I read on Lynn News, KL were hoping still for a points per game average to be used as a guide for promotion. Can't see it happening though. If they do then you could see some kind of precedent for all the other leagues above? (even though they are separate legal entities).

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