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sonyc

National League null and void

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An incremental increase in new cases today. We now have the situation whereby as testing increases then so does the number of confirmed new cases. If I'm hearing correctly we will be exponentially increasing testing between now and the end of the month. In my mind that will shift the perceived peak to much later with an extension of lockdown. 

Unless we get a sustained reduction in the death rate it really isn't looking good for a return to normality anytime soon.

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4 hours ago, ricardo said:

As long as the scent of money remains the EPL will continue to pursue the idea of playing to conclusion. With the prospect of what is to come I think the optics of this approach will look  increasingly bad to the overwhelming majority of the population. A festival of football while thousands are dying is unlikely to garner popular approval.

But this is still only addressing part of the conundrum. Money is part of any solution - of course it is, there is a vast amount of financial stuff that is going to need sorting out - but the other main issue - that of what happens when football can finally return, is something that has to be right too.  There obviously is going to no festival of football while the crisis is still in full flow - and football in any form can only continue when the time is right and fans can go to games, which could be much later in the year or even next year - and maybe to the point that next season may not be possible to fit in at all.  

Football could be limited to just two or three months at the start of next year.  In that situation, the common sense approach would be to complete this seasons games then, which would then lead on to the following season in August 2021, with a good gap in between for the Euros to take place and avoid trying to squash a full season in when it is impracticable to do so. 

We don't know the timescales, but this could happen, so why deny the one scenario that could see things return with a sense of completion and that could allow football to carry on with continuity?  The finances are going to be up the creek for all clubs whatever happens, but it is not impossible to see that next season may not be possible. Obviously it would be great to be able to start next season on time, but does anyone really think this is going to happen?  I don't and would like the option to complete this season at some future point if it is sensible to do so.  Wrong decisions now can make getting football going again very difficult once the crisis is over.

It's a case that no decision may be the correct decision, with money set aside and arrangements made to help clubs keep afloat until such time football can return, be it in August or January next year, or even later.     

 

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Lakey, I'm guessing you feel quite strongly that the current season must be completed come what may? Even if it was to re-start say in September or October (just to give two examples) with the so-called 20/21 season then needing to start (given the above restart examples and cups) in January 2021 but then being greatly truncated (a 4 month short season) to make way for the Euros. Have I got this correct?

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14 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

 

It's a case that no decision may be the correct decision, with money set aside and arrangements made to help clubs keep afloat until such time football can return, be it in August or January next year, or even later.     

 

Unless the season can be completed with the same squads then restarting at some far distant unkown date becomes impossible. I am sure we will see a cut off date when a moveable target date becomes unfeasible.

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2 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Lakey, I'm guessing you feel quite strongly that the current season must be completed come what may? Even if it was to re-start say in September or October (just to give two examples) with the so-called 20/21 season then needing to start (given the above restart examples and cups) in January 2021 but then being greatly truncated (a 4 month short season) to make way for the Euros. Have I got this correct?

There comes a point where next season becomes impractical to even start this year and that is when a two month part season could be an ideal solution - in other words the two months it would take to finish this season, which would be in spring next year.  To deny that possibility and to declare this season void would be foolish imo.

In your suggestion, a September or October restart with the following season starting in December, would just about be practicable, with a lot of extra midweek games. The conundrum would be that if football can somehow start in September or October, then it might be better to start the new season then and forget this season.

The Euros tournament is secondary to any of my thinking, imo it could be cancelled altogether, but in a scenario where only a couple of months is free for football in the next year up to April, the euros could then have space to be done with a bit less pressure on time and players.

I strongly feel all options should be kept open.

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I'm of the opinion that I really couldn't care when or if it starts again.

People are losing lives because of this and idiots in the media keep asking players and managers what the impact is of not finishing a season.

In the scheme of things it's irrelevant and is starting to he disrespectful and distasteful to.those losing their lives.

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1 minute ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

I'm of the opinion that I really couldn't care when or if it starts again.

People are losing lives because of this and idiots in the media keep asking players and managers what the impact is of not finishing a season.

In the scheme of things it's irrelevant and is starting to he disrespectful and distasteful to.those losing their lives.

Close to my thoughts Rich T. But I wanted to understand LDC's position better.

 

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3 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Unless the season can be completed with the same squads then restarting at some far distant unkown date becomes impossible. I am sure we will see a cut off date when a moveable target date becomes unfeasible.

It's not impossible though, is it ricardo?  It means rule changes, some flexibility from all sides in recognising that an extrordinary situation demands extraordinary solutions, different players or whatever it takes.  It will be flawed and far from ideal, but better than just cutting off this season and having to scabble some cockermaney cobbled together league set up for the next season.

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4 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

The conundrum would be that if football can somehow start in September or October, then it might be better to start the new season then and forget this season.

The Euros tournament is secondary to any of my thinking, imo it could be cancelled altogether, but in a scenario where only a couple of months is free for football in the next year up to April, the euros could then have space to be done with a bit less pressure on time and players.

 

Thanks.

I cannot see authorities cancelling the Euros though.

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3 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Close to my thoughts Rich T. But I wanted to understand LDC's position better.

 

That's fair enough, it was more a general point and not specifically aimed at your post.

I lost it on twitter at BBC sport when they posted a message about it, none of this should be discussed by the media until we've got through the worst and it's improving.

No events where there is a gathering and that includes 11 players and coaching staff in a confined space of a changing room should take place until everyone one has had it or there is some kind of vaccine.

Some of the cr4p being discussed like playing games behind closed doors or even funnier in China is laughable and it's got the point where it now angers.

Until that point, it shouldn't even be debated.

Rant over.....sorry

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

I'm of the opinion that I really couldn't care when or if it starts again.

People are losing lives because of this and idiots in the media keep asking players and managers what the impact is of not finishing a season.

In the scheme of things it's irrelevant and is starting to he disrespectful and distasteful to.those losing their lives.

I hear you and understand your point of view, but then these are issues that need sorting and imo there is no harm in talking about it.  There is no disrespect to anyone in this and we are all in the same boat in trying to deal with things, but to deny discussion about football as being somehow disrespectful is to deny that at some stage things will carry on. In a traumatic situation, if nothing else, people need a distraction from the news, which as usual is way over the top in it's coverage and counter productive.   Sport is and has always been an outlet, an escape, so thinking about when and how it will return is only natural and the authorities need to get this right. 

Edited by lake district canary

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25 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

It's not impossible though, is it ricardo?  It means rule changes, some flexibility from all sides in recognising that an extrordinary situation demands extraordinary solutions, different players or whatever it takes.  It will be flawed and far from ideal, but better than just cutting off this season and having to scabble some cockermaney cobbled together league set up for the next season.

This is never going to fly. I am surprised that anyone thinks it will.

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38 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I hear you and understand your point of view, but then these are issues that need sorting and imo there is no harm in talking about it.  There is no disrespect to anyone in this and we are all in the same boat in trying to deal with things, but to deny discussion about football as being somehow disrespectful is to deny that at some stage things will carry on. In a traumatic situation, if nothing else, people need a distraction from the news, which as usual is way over the top in it's coverage and counter productive.   Sport is and has always been an outlet, an escape, so thinking about when and how it will return is only natural and the authorities need to get this right. 

At some stage......you've got it exactly right. 

There cannot be a proper meaningful discussion until we get through this and that will be months not weeks.

My moan isn't about people on here having a debate about it, my issue is with the media making it the big thing when as it stands it's not, that's the disrespectful bit and the fact that they think it's the big thing is the disrespectful bit.

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I really don't get this rule changes Lakey. As Rich T said, many more will die before this is over. And yet Football cannot just say to the world, this crisis is so bad, we have to forget any talk of finishing this season as a mark of respect. We will start afresh when it is all over.

And if you are keen on rule changes, then how about that the TV money gets spread equally throughout the 4 divisions. The bigger clubs will do better through their bigger gates and merchandise sales.s

Then the players may have come to their senses and see that the real excesses are over. I was a printer and paying more tax than many were earning. But technology swept that aside and those days have virtually gone. We had our day and revelled in it. And football needs that wake up.

But to stubbornly believe that ruining next season is better than just ending this one and to keep delaying the decision shows a remarkable disdain for what is happening.

And what if the banks decide they need to call in the loans? Who will be the ones to claim foul play?

 

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15 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I really don't get this rule changes Lakey. As Rich T said, many more will die before this is over. And yet Football cannot just say to the world, this crisis is so bad, we have to forget any talk of finishing this season as a mark of respect. We will start afresh when it is all over.

And if you are keen on rule changes, then how about that the TV money gets spread equally throughout the 4 divisions. The bigger clubs will do better through their bigger gates and merchandise sales.s

Then the players may have come to their senses and see that the real excesses are over. I was a printer and paying more tax than many were earning. But technology swept that aside and those days have virtually gone. We had our day and revelled in it. And football needs that wake up.

But to stubbornly believe that ruining next season is better than just ending this one and to keep delaying the decision shows a remarkable disdain for what is happening.

And what if the banks decide they need to call in the loans? Who will be the ones to claim foul play?

 

Changing the topic slightly.....do you have any links to the great Kevin Keelan?

Reason for asking is that he was a friend of my parents and my brothers god father.

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Hi Rich

I wish I did have links to the great man. But the real connection is that I have a Grandson called Keelan.

I worshipped our Kev and used to wear a green bowler hat with KEELAN SUPREME on it. And once chatted to him in the pub that used to be opposite the Woolpack.

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The only thing I take from all the discussions is that the EPL is desperate to play out in full the remaining games to save them the £750M. It's not about league positions, promotion or relegation or 'football integrity'. 

They really have to play these games by July or August latest else they will impact the following season ... and presumably there is a time-out on saving the 750M anyway (Its all new in August etc).

Of course it's not going to happen ... the money is lost and they'd all be much better accepting the inevitable and move on.

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18 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

The only thing I take from all the discussions is that the EPL is desperate to play out in full the remaining games to save them the £750M. It's not about league positions, promotion or relegation or 'football integrity'. 

They really have to play these games by July or August latest else they will impact the following season ... and presumably there is a time-out on saving the 750M anyway (Its all new in August etc).

Of course it's not going to happen ... the money is lost and they'd all be much better accepting the inevitable and move on.

It’s all about the cash and it’s getting more desperate. They will hang on to the possibility of completing and getting their money right up to the point when not completing loses them less.

Guess that will be when next seasons money comes under real threat.

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

The only thing I take from all the discussions is that the EPL is desperate to play out in full the remaining games to save them the £750M. It's not about league positions, promotion or relegation or 'football integrity'. 

They really have to play these games by July or August latest else they will impact the following season ... and presumably there is a time-out on saving the 750M anyway (Its all new in August etc).

Of course it's not going to happen ... the money is lost and they'd all be much better accepting the inevitable and move on.

The supposed deadline to finish the season and so not pay the £750m is July 14. And there is another factor apart from that money, which is Uefa's demand that the top flights complete or face being banned from the Champions League and the Europa League. So that is all about money as well.

The complicating factor with both the £750m threat and the Uefa threat is deciding whether they are bluffs. The TV companies now know there are alterntive medias to them, and Uefa knows a Champions League without some or all of the Spanish, Italian, French, German or English clubs would be a joke.

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9 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

The supposed deadline to finish the season and so not pay the £750m is July 14. And there is another factor apart from that money, which is Uefa's demand that the top flights complete or face being banned from the Champions League and the Europa League. So that is all about money as well.

The complicating factor with both the £750m threat and the Uefa threat is deciding whether they are bluffs. The TV companies now know there are alterntive medias to them, and Uefa knows a Champions League without some or all of the Spanish, Italian, French, German or English clubs would be a joke.

Current TV contracts run until 2022 for the Prem and 2024 for UEFA I believe, so future contracts are a bit of a red herring. Whatever offering the clubs come up now is a bit tarnished, paricularly cramming it in or playing behind close doors. Sky want football on Sunday afternoons in front of a crowd over months, including Super Sunday. Anything else is a diminished product. The £750 million is gone, question is only about who picks up the tab.

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27 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Current TV contracts run until 2022 for the Prem and 2024 for UEFA I believe, so future contracts are a bit of a red herring. Whatever offering the clubs come up now is a bit tarnished, paricularly cramming it in or playing behind close doors. Sky want football on Sunday afternoons in front of a crowd over months, including Super Sunday. Anything else is a diminished product. The £750 million is gone, question is only about who picks up the tab.

Yes agree - and more to the point Sky are losing money now - trying to mitigate their losses now.

Any 'extra' games played next autumn in effect in the 'new season' have very little value.

The £750M is gone. Sort it and move on.

 

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Fifa to announce indefinite end to the season today. Still not sure how that solves the financial problem though! 

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3 hours ago, JF said:

Fifa to announce indefinite end to the season today. Still not sure how that solves the financial problem though! 

Its known as a kick into the long grass.😉

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FA chief Greg Clarke now feels it is unlikely 19/20 will ever be completed.  At last someone looks at the glaringly obvious,  

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Just now, pete said:

FA chief Greg Clarke now feels it is unlikely 19/20 will ever be completed.  At last someone looks at the glaringly obvious,  

They won't  let it go while they can still see the money but I think it will be like the donkeys carrot, always just out of reach.

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3 minutes ago, ricardo said:

They won't  let it go while they can still see the money but I think it will be like the donkeys carrot, always just out of reach.

I suspect Sky and BT will have to poke them with a big pointy stick by June latest.

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I would think that next season not happening at all would be catastrophic for the whole of football including the likes of us, Liverpool, Man City etc,

A whole season with no money makes no sense just to finish this season and get a third of a season's money.

 

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