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EPL new plan

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11 hours ago, JF said:

hardly social distancing having a full squad and staff in the changing rooms and then playing on the pitch is it!?

Of course, you are correct, but it would just be one of many contradictions of govt. policy. E.G. teachers having to go in for the children of essential workers can't social distance either (and consequently neither can their families).

I suspect that it is easier to protect elite footballers than care staff, nurses, teachers, and other poorly-paid "key workers" for whom social distancing is impossible.

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1 hour ago, wcorkcanary said:

Disagree Zaco, even this bunch of cretins wouldn't be so stupid as to use medical staff for anything as irrelevant as  footy, until  the situation is contained and declining. Even then front line staff will need a rest. Fact is, we CAN live without it for a while.

I completely agree and hope you’re right

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Latest on the Olympic Games is that countries and athletes are starting to pull out and the Japanese and IOC are starting to backtrack on their original stance that the games will go ahead. Once the games are cancelled I can't see how football could restart this season. It would look very odd. Lots of us love football but a bigger number can't stand it and the public will not respond well to NHS and Police resources being used for football 

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

Sadly that appears to be the case,  it definitely continues to spread, I’m not sure if we know whether transmission is reduced however. Even simple stuff like being outdoors may reduce infection in a small way, perhaps more UV will effect how long it survives on surfaces, but it certainly doesn’t suppress it in the same way as a flu virus.

I think the main hope is that summer always reduces pressure on the NHS - as you say, flu is certainly less of a problem. It would be interesting to see some objective data on the seasonal variations of used capacity in the NHS.

 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Latest on the Olympic Games is that countries and athletes are starting to pull out and the Japanese and IOC are starting to backtrack on their original stance that the games will go ahead. Once the games are cancelled I can't see how football could restart this season. It would look very odd. Lots of us love football but a bigger number can't stand it and the public will not respond well to NHS and Police resources being used for football 

Personally - Even when the peak of the pandemic passes in the summer some social distancing will still be needed until such time as we've either all 'had it' (sadly some more literally than others) or a vaccine is introduced.

My guess is that football won't be in any position to formally restart this year and certainly not before the autumn !

Sooner EPL, FA etc. accept this the better for everybody. Anything else is fantasy.

Edited by Yellow Fever
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They need to simply void the season now. I don’t think there would be much public support for football teams whining about their various positions. Suits us I know, but really can’t see what else can be done, don’t simply delay the decision, hoping for some sort of miracle.

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The only way this season will be completed is if it is not possible to start again until next March (2021).

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2 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

The only way this season will be completed is if it is not possible to start again until next March (2021).

I suspect that all the normal rules will be relaxed and a vaccine will be ready within months 

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It seems to me that a closure on this season, sooner rather than later, is not only inevitable but the right decision to make full stop in what we’re facing as a nation, in Europe and the wider world. There is absolutely no way that any medical staff can be drawn away from their magnificent work in dealing with the virus for months.  Leaving the footballing world hanging in the balance with some clubs training and others unsure what to do for weeks on end and then finally making a decision to end the season in May or June seems crazy to me. Make the decision now and then the footballing world can stop, have its close season (probably for many many months) and prepare for a new season in August/September/October/November...

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15 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I suspect that all the normal rules will be relaxed and a vaccine will be ready within months 

There is a chastening interview in The Guardian which is worth a read:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/mar/23/coronavirus-sport-premier-league-tokyo-olympics


This bit stood out:

The scientific expert I spoke to, on condition of anonymity, suggested that a best-case scenario was that an antibody test will be soon developed that will let us know if substantial numbers of the population have been infected and recovered. But, he stressed, it would probably still take six months for it to be developed, ramped up, and tested on the population. Meanwhile a vaccine might not be ready for 18 months, given it will have to go through the necessary safety trials.

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23 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

There is a chastening interview in The Guardian which is worth a read:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/mar/23/coronavirus-sport-premier-league-tokyo-olympics


This bit stood out:

The scientific expert I spoke to, on condition of anonymity, suggested that a best-case scenario was that an antibody test will be soon developed that will let us know if substantial numbers of the population have been infected and recovered. But, he stressed, it would probably still take six months for it to be developed, ramped up, and tested on the population. Meanwhile a vaccine might not be ready for 18 months, given it will have to go through the necessary safety trials.

Yes - the best we can hope for is an antibody test. A vaccine even if fast tracked (and safety is a huge issue - if they got it wrong worst case is that it could prep-up the disease) still a year away. Don't hold your breath for a football restart.

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What is being over looked is how the unfinished games will impact on all football clubs

At the moment there will be quite a large sum of money still due to PL clubs. If that is mot paid then the money that filters down the leagues via staged transfer/apperance/add on etc fees will not be paid.

Maybe much of this will cancel out ie what is owing v what is owed, However what might be a players lost or reduced wages in the PL will be financial ruin for a club in L1/L2/and lower,

That is why there is the apparent impetus to play these games. That is why the economy can only be sustained on borrowed money for so long, And as the NHS's 'winter pressure' reduces so the number of infected people able to be treated wil increase. With that increase will come reductions in restrictions on movement/contact so as to get the economy moving.

Talking of minimizing social contact only underpins this point as food processing as well as harvesting and transporting requires close contact so it should be seen what the idea here really is. And it should also be noted that most of that work will be done by so called 'unskilled' labour, as is the work being done in care homes. I wonder where we would be if these 'scrounging' immirants weren't here now.

So accept that a lot of other stuff will have to happen. Stuff that is based on us expecting cheaper food, cheap goods and a football world where a footballer can earn in a month what a care worker will earn in a life time then it is us that created this monster and us who will have to keep it going come what may.

 

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Wise words Bill. I really hope that the majority will see sense after this. Much changed after WW2 and this is the biggest crisis since. I think if greed and nationalism were eliminated then we could make a start.

This is akin to Emile Zola's Germinal. Can we really "blow up" everything and make a clean start?

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1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

There is a chastening interview in The Guardian which is worth a read:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/mar/23/coronavirus-sport-premier-league-tokyo-olympics


This bit stood out:

The scientific expert I spoke to, on condition of anonymity, suggested that a best-case scenario was that an antibody test will be soon developed that will let us know if substantial numbers of the population have been infected and recovered. But, he stressed, it would probably still take six months for it to be developed, ramped up, and tested on the population. Meanwhile a vaccine might not be ready for 18 months, given it will have to go through the necessary safety trials.

I thought the antibody test was already developed, I know there is lots of fake news about but I'm sure I read it on a reputable website 

 

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I understand what Bill is saying and can see it from the view of the football heirarchy...even if they are likely alone in what they consider could happen.

Social distancing..this is one of the biggest "you have to do this" calls from Boris for the general public to observe, in fact so important that a decision on a much more stringent lockdown seems balanced right now on how well...or not...the public actually perform  with social distancing. The young especially,  some of whom seem oblivious to the dangers of the virus, or in the know but choose to ignore it, view footballers are their heroes and can be easily led by the actions of said players. Footy is a contact sport first and foremost..its just ridiculous for authority to preach about social distancing if football players are seen to be socially contacting instead of distancing.

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12 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Wise words Bill. I really hope that the majority will see sense after this. Much changed after WW2 and this is the biggest crisis since. I think if greed and nationalism were eliminated then we could make a start.

This is akin to Emile Zola's Germinal. Can we really "blow up" everything and make a clean start?

No, afraid not.

After WW2 voters had been exposed to a different way of doing things. A comment from a Scottish soldier in one of Spike Milligan's war memoirs was something on the lines of how he had grown up eternally hungry as a kid beside the Clyde where boats unoaded masses of food, yet here he was in the desert miles from anything and a truck had lumbered out to feed  him and the other three as they repaired a broken down vehicle.

It was seing how things could be through education. health care,food and housing that saw a massive vote towards building on that after the war. If we can do all this to kill other people then we can do it to better the lives of our people ran the thought,

Contrast that with Dec 2019 where those who had spent the past decade cutting education, training, housing and health were elected because they would get 'rid of immigrants'. The very immigrants who have been needed to cover the lack of UK trained workers. The lack of housing that meant UK workers could not move to where the work is.

the challenge will be to move society to where improving housing, healthcare and education is of far greater benefit to society than a constant consumption of cheap goods of dubious origin. Kids may not always want everything TV ads says they should have. But they may want time with their parents - not in a B&B because the government thinks that won't cause long term damage. Add up the Housing Benefit that has been wasted on shoddy rented accomodation that could have been used to increase the nations housing stock. NHS money spent on agency staff because we drastically cut 'training our own'.

What might be learnt is how much work can be done 'at home'. That doesn't mean an isolated employee stuck in a back bedroom, but in Norfolk redundant light industrial premises are not converted into someone's second home. They become a work place where employees can work in a 'work environment' so breathing life back into dormant villages. The hours saved on commuting can be used to walk their kids to school and get to know their neighbours.

Instead of billions on an absurd H20 which will move workers 20 mins quicker we need to upgrade broadband to the fastest posible speed right across the country. It should be about moving information and dat to workers - not the other way round, Properly done the employee in North Norfol can receive medical, legal, banking etc consultation with anyone in the world.

There is much that can be done, if we have the same mindset on 1945 - sadly it is the mindset of 1985 that now pervades.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Essjayess said:

I understand what Bill is saying and can see it from the view of the football heirarchy...even if they are likely alone in what they consider could happen.

Social distancing..this is one of the biggest "you have to do this" calls from Boris for the general public to observe, in fact so important that a decision on a much more stringent lockdown seems balanced right now on how well...or not...the public actually perform  with social distancing. The young especially,  some of whom seem oblivious to the dangers of the virus, or in the know but choose to ignore it, view footballers are their heroes and can be easily led by the actions of said players. Footy is a contact sport first and foremost..its just ridiculous for authority to preach about social distancing if football players are seen to be socially contacting instead of distancing.

You will note that is is 'social contact' not contact, as all the areas I listed will still entail contact. Otherwise there would be no food, petrol, social care taxis, buses, trains etc

This is about levelling out the medical need, not reducing it overall.

Edited by Bill
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I also accept Bill's analysis but nevertheless there must come a point in time when the impact on clubs becomes less were the season to be canceled. There is no point messing up next season (reducing it to half the games sarting in January, as the EFL chairman muted, because of insufficient time) with the massive negative financial impact that would have in order to save the quarter of a season we have remaining.

The idea that we flout the CMO's advice and place extra burdens on the NHS in order to play football doesn't sit well with me at all. If proof that football has got an inflated view of itself were needed then this would be it.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

I also accept Bill's analysis but nevertheless there must come a point in time when the impact on clubs becomes less were the season to be canceled. There is no point messing up next season (reducing it to half the games sarting in January, as the EFL chairman muted, because of insufficient time) with the massive negative financial impact that would have in order to save the quarter of a season we have remaining.

The idea that we flout the CMO's advice and place extra burdens on the NHS in order to play football doesn't sit well with me at all. If proof that football has got an inflated view of itself were needed then this would be it.

 

 

The real truth is that the clubs need to know quickly that they can make plans for new season - and then as the community clubs they are free up their deep resources - medical staff, suites, grounds for the general need.

Keeping them 'hanging on for a June restart is truy idiotic and frankly selfish.

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8 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

The real truth is that the clubs need to know quickly that they can make plans for new season - and then as the community clubs they are free up their deep resources - medical staff, suites, grounds for the general need.

Keeping them 'hanging on for a June restart is truy idiotic and frankly selfish.

The reality is that if thy don't play those games and so receive the remainder of the TV money football is likely to cillapse.

As all things being equal it would mean a loss of 20% of TV income plus bonus payments.

Now while some refer to the wealth of PL clubs almost every penny is spent/commited. So what happens to those dependent upon that money. In that I am talking about clubs who are commited thmselves based on staged payments. Look at our accounts and check what we still owe. How much do Leicester still owe us for Maddison ?

If they default where then any money owed to Coventry with our recent buy ? Do they owe money based on what they expect from us ?

It is this domino effect that could wipe out lower league clubs. That is what is behind this wish to finish the season. Fans created this monster. It will either have to be fed, or die... taking an awful lot down with it.

And for clarificatiin I am not supporting this just pointing it out. And oif it means agents and players have to hand back 50 grand cars etc..... then good !

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39 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

I also accept Bill's analysis but nevertheless there must come a point in time when the impact on clubs becomes less were the season to be canceled. There is no point messing up next season (reducing it to half the games sarting in January, as the EFL chairman muted, because of insufficient time) with the massive negative financial impact that would have in order to save the quarter of a season we have remaining.

The idea that we flout the CMO's advice and place extra burdens on the NHS in order to play football doesn't sit well with me at all. If proof that football has got an inflated view of itself were needed then this would be it.

There would be no extra burdens placed on the NHS, any more than private hospitals do now

Their suggestions would seem to be coming from the thought that much of the current strain will have been reduced by then and much will have got back to 'normal'.

The doomsday scenario that the country could remain as it is now until mid summer is absurd. The provision of food would collapse. Imports would dry up as countries tried to restrict would can be exported to the (UK) as they sought food security themselves. And ironically outside of the EU 'clout' the UK will be further back in the queue.

Fifty or so players set against fifty in a supermarket, or food processing factory. Where there the bigger threat ?

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3 hours ago, Bill said:

The reality is that if thy don't play those games and so receive the remainder of the TV money football is likely to cillapse.

As all things being equal it would mean a loss of 20% of TV income plus bonus payments.

Now while some refer to the wealth of PL clubs almost every penny is spent/commited. So what happens to those dependent upon that money. In that I am talking about clubs who are commited thmselves based on staged payments. Look at our accounts and check what we still owe. How much do Leicester still owe us for Maddison ?

If they default where then any money owed to Coventry with our recent buy ? Do they owe money based on what they expect from us ?

It is this domino effect that could wipe out lower league clubs. That is what is behind this wish to finish the season. Fans created this monster. It will either have to be fed, or die... taking an awful lot down with it.

And for clarificatiin I am not supporting this just pointing it out. And oif it means agents and players have to hand back 50 grand cars etc..... then good !

Well, ive no idea  if the football leagues will end up in such a drastic fashion Bill, but if it happens then so be it. Let all the clubs go bust, restart as amateur teams...end of the day football itself will survive and we can all find a club to support, even if its a local team playing on the local rec.

People always had the choice to pay Sky TV for what they offer, be it sport, movies or whatever. Personally ive never given them a penny, never will. Airlines are going bust, a good amount of businesses will go bust because of the virus, people are already losing jobs elsewhere because of it, ive zero sympathy if the structure of the 4 leagues takes a big hit. Also the football associations and Sky have weeks and weeks ahead to formulate different agendas and work out new solutions.  Fact is they will have to face the reality of it...looks like later rather than sooner based on their planning, but the day will come.

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Uefa have postponed the champions league and Europa league finals. Didn’t see that coming....

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There will be a significant wealth tax have to be applied the world over to pay for the damage this pandemic has done if it goes on for many months.

 

As much as we all love our football, in the scheme of things right now, it's not very important.

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7 hours ago, duke63 said:

There will be a significant wealth tax have to be applied the world over to pay for the damage this pandemic has done if it goes on for many months.

 

As much as we all love our football, in the scheme of things right now, it's not very important.

Just getting Amazon, Apple and Google to pay would be a start

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The financial model of the EPL was always going to be vulnerable to a financial shock, the grounds will still be there, there will still be players who want to earn a living, now is the opportunity to scrap the current funding model throughout the sport and restart with something  more realistic and sustainable. 

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