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Rishi Sunak

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To be honest Bill I’m no great lover of this current crop in charge, but credit to them, from my perspective they’ve done a fantastic job. Good job we didn’t have that **** Corbyn and that daft old bat Abbot in charge now!

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Posted (edited)

There are people incapable of doing their jobs in all walks of life including governments; the sad thing is that one is the current PM but at least there are others showing that they can meet requirements of their job... though we await anything actually hitting anyone’s pocket.

Edited by Branston Pickle

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41 minutes ago, Indy said:

To be honest Bill I’m no great lover of this current crop in charge, but credit to them, from my perspective they’ve done a fantastic job. Good job we didn’t have that **** Corbyn and that daft old bat Abbot in charge now!

I think that you are being rather generous! 

The editor of the Lancet judged that "We have wasted 7 weeks. This crisis was entirely preventable."

The Journal recommended a corona virus strategy of suppression as early as 24th January, but the government went off on the "herd immunity theory" before back-tracking. He has no sympathy for the govt's defence that "the science has changed" saying that the data was already available and cites its own article from January. 

As for Rishi Sunak - he had a budget with about £30 billion worth of response, followed by tens times as much less than a week later + then a third package a couple of days later. The govt has been behind the curve at all stages.

If interested:

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/03/17/the-coronavirus-crisis-mistake-over-herd-immunity-has-cost-us-vital-time/

https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736(20)30185-9

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Posted (edited)

Said the same myself today, not a big fan of the Tories, never have been but no criticism from me, and I really like Rish Sunak, the only downer is that the autocorrect for his surname is "Sunk"........I really hope not........

Edited by Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB
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Boris maybe a bit of a lightweight but seems to have the ability to delegate and pick the right person. He has also listened to what the experts are saying even though not all the experts are saying the same thing.

Impressed with Rishi Sunak, he seems to have a grasp of what needs doing.

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1 hour ago, Indy said:

To be honest Bill I’m no great lover of this current crop in charge, but credit to them, from my perspective they’ve done a fantastic job. Good job we didn’t have that **** Corbyn and that daft old bat Abbot in charge now!

Yeh, spending other peoples money and re-nationalising industries is the last thing we need.

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29 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Boris maybe a bit of a lightweight but seems to have the ability to delegate and pick the right person. He has also listened to what the experts are saying even though not all the experts are saying the same thing

No, he’s listened to the one he wanted to listen to, not the one that actually gave the best MEDICAL advice.

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1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

No, he’s listened to the one he wanted to listen to, not the one that actually gave the best MEDICAL advice.

So who's medical advice should he have listened to?

There is not enough hard data. No explanation for the discrepancies (enormous discrepancies) between different countries.

I think you're saying yo would've done things differently, because you know which experts are right. I don't think you have any way of rationally determining that assertion.

 

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10 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

So who's medical advice should he have listened to?

There is not enough hard data. No explanation for the discrepancies (enormous discrepancies) between different countries.

I think you're saying yo would've done things differently, because you know which experts are right. I don't think you have any way of rationally determining that assertion.

 

Have to agree. Felt a bit sorry for Boris (something I never thought I’d ever say!) when he was clearly told one thing on Friday and had to change track completely two days later.  A prime minister isn’t an expert in literally everything and is reliant on his advisors/what he’s told.

The package announced yesterday was a bit of a surprise to me in some respects from a Tory government. A very much needed measure.
 

I fully take the point it perhaps hasn’t covered off self employed people as well as it should, but that’s much more difficult to quantify - if you’ve got a base guaranteed salary every month it’s easy to do the maths. Chances are, if you’re self employed it’s not. They were right to make the announcement when they did though and I wouldn’t be surprised if further measures for the self employed are announced at a later date. Sunak mentioned that they are considering measures for the charity sector in response to a question yesterday as well. The more complicated packages might take longer to finalise. 
 

Discussions about those sorts of things should be had, but some of the labour comments today stank of just arguing for the sake of it. One said “he only did what we’ve been demanding he does” - damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.

 

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Posted (edited)

Agreed, I feel that they're doing a great job. Makes you wonder how this would have happened if Corbyn was PM? 

I don't have much sympathy with the self employed either. I've spent most of my working life beside them on construction sites telling me that they're better off then me, make all the tax dodges that they can and putting nothing aside for 'sticky patches'.

Edited by Sideshow Tim

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23 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Have to agree. Felt a bit sorry for Boris (something I never thought I’d ever say!) when he was clearly told one thing on Friday and had to change track completely two days later.  A prime minister isn’t an expert in literally everything and is reliant on his advisors/what he’s told.

The package announced yesterday was a bit of a surprise to me in some respects from a Tory government. A very much needed measure.

Discussions about those sorts of things should be had, but some of the labour comments today stank of just arguing for the sake of it. One said “he only did what we’ve been demanding he does” - damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.

Think that the economic measures taken have been appropriate and agree, somewhat surprisingly benevolent for a Tory govt.

My main issue with all of this is I don't think we went far enough quick enough, and the complete and utter lack of leadership from Boris is embarassing. 

Pretty much all teachers had a very unofficial but pretty clear idea we'd shut down on Friday if not before. Boris announced it Wednesday which was fine. The problem was they didn't have a solution to exam grades, even though the only solution that was practicable was the one they settled on, and they didn't have the keyworker lists. They'd had weeks to work out the keyworker list. Weeks.

Don't say schools are open for keyworkers and then give the list out 30 hours later at 10 past midnight. Don't say exams are cancelled and then not announce the solution for 40 hours, despite it being the only one that would work.

Caused utter chaos in every school in the country, in a really difficult time already, when we're trying to plan for unprecedented remote education, having key worker kids in and staffing that without knowing how many kids will be in so no idea how many staff would be needed - there was literally no need for any of the chaos... The key worker list should have been ready to go when he announced closure. The exam announcement should have been "exams are cancelled, this is how we will give you your grades".

Sunak has appeared pretty measured, I hate the Tories, but I will concede that he at least seems competent and willing to make tough decisions.

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It was only in December that Boris thought his main task would be Brexit when elected. 

The plan lasted into February then the whole agenda changed around him. 

He is in wholly uncharted political waters. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Ramrod said:

It was only in December that Boris thought his main task would be Brexit when elected. 

The plan lasted into February then the whole agenda changed around him. 

He is in wholly uncharted political waters. 

No objection to that point, but delivering the messages with such utter incompetence and lack of understanding of the consequences shows him to be the poor, tone deaf leader he is. He's causing problems by making vague announcements and not filling in the blanks, and leaving everybody else to pick up the pieces. I don't dispute its a horrendously difficult situation, but things like saying keyworkers will have childcare, but not detailing who a keyworker is until midnight 30 hours later is gross incompetence. Get the policy in place, then make the announcement, doing things backwards is leadership basics.

Edited by kick it off

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So what's the answer then? 

How would deal with the situation? 

Given the circumstances I feel that he and his government are doing a sterling job. (believe me I'm no BoJo admiriner!) 

The world is full of people that want to criticise what's in front of them with no real answers! 

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It is so easy to blame the government, The government has been clear that its aim is to try and spread the level of cases in order to reduce peak demand on the NHS. It has also been clear that its actions will become more stringent as the disease takes off. Timing is critical to avoid increasing non compliance with these measures by the public. 
As for the state of availability in supermarkets it may become increasingly necessary to ‘police’ shoppers but this is not down to poor government, it is entirely down to our increasingly me me me societal outlook. I’m alright Jack, fack you! 

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7 hours ago, Sideshow Tim said:

Agreed, I feel that they're doing a great job. Makes you wonder how this would have happened if Corbyn was PM? 

I don't have much sympathy with the self employed either. I've spent most of my working life beside them on construction sites telling me that they're better off then me, make all the tax dodges that they can and putting nothing aside for 'sticky patches'.

It's not the self employed builders and plumbers that people are worried about. It's the gig economy workers, taxi drivers, delivery drivers, musicians etc that are classed as self employed, have little incomes, no sick pay rights or any other basic worker rights. There are millions working hand to mouth that have suddenly lost ALL income. They still have to pay rent and bills somehow. 

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From what I've read they're not relying on behavioural scientists and the nudge unit anymore after Imperial pointed out the massive flaw to the herd immunity idea. The fact Johnson has pushed aside his "Special adviser" and now listens to proper medical and scientific experts is a good thing. Rishi, who I assumed would just become treasury spokesman, has listened to criticism and advice,  stepped up to the plate and done what is necessary. This is also a good thing.

To show true leadership they now need to get ahead of this somehow, be proactive not reactive. For all our sakes we need them to get this right because, ulike austerity, we are all in this together.

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8 hours ago, Sideshow Tim said:

Agreed, I feel that they're doing a great job. Makes you wonder how this would have happened if Corbyn was PM? 

I don't have much sympathy with the self employed either. I've spent most of my working life beside them on construction sites telling me that they're better off then me, make all the tax dodges that they can and putting nothing aside for 'sticky patches'.

The clue is that in thier election manifesto they were going to borrow loads, re-nationalise industries and protect workers rights.

You can stop wondering.

 

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7 hours ago, kick it off said:

No objection to that point, but delivering the messages with such utter incompetence and lack of understanding of the consequences shows him to be the poor, tone deaf leader he is. He's causing problems by making vague announcements and not filling in the blanks, and leaving everybody else to pick up the pieces. I don't dispute its a horrendously difficult situation, but things like saying keyworkers will have childcare, but not detailing who a keyworker is until midnight 30 hours later is gross incompetence. Get the policy in place, then make the announcement, doing things backwards is leadership basics.

This, absolutely.

We've had months to prepare a response to this, have the benefit of being behind the curve of lots of nations and yet have p*ssed it all up the wall.

Johnson's "leadership" during this has been abysmal and the timing of many announcements idiotic. Key worker list at midnight. Close pubs etc on Saturday (giving morons a final Friday night out). School closures with a few days notice. Don't visit mum on mother's day, at 10pm last night. 

Sunak has come across well, but it's been amplified by incompetence of the mumbling bufoon he's been stood next to. The one who so recently boasted of shaking everyone's hand, including corona patients, whose own father undermined social distancing just hours after it being announced, who joked that the effort to build more ventilators should be called "Operation Last Gasp", and who can't answer any of the press questions at his own press conferences with even the slightest bit of credibility.

I'm genuinely interested in why anyone thinks Boris has done a good job this week.

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When BJ and Rishi are on the same platform, well it’s not a good look for BJ.

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23 minutes ago, kirku said:

 

I'm genuinely interested in why anyone thinks Boris has done a good job this week.

We'll have to get back to you on that one Jeremy.

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1 hour ago, kirku said:

I'm genuinely interested in why anyone thinks Boris has done a good job this week.

I have to say that I am confused by this as well. They have been behind the curve right from the start. The advice was available from other countries and from medical journals like the Lancet. Other countries chose to take radical action earlier whilst we were still flirting with ideas of partial herd immunity - even super loyal Jeremy Hunt criticised the approach.

In direct answer to your question posed above, I think that during times of national crisis people want to rally round making overt sounds of loyalty to the govt/ nation whilst simultaneously taking actions from a selfish standpoint - e.g. hoarding. There are parallels with the Second World War and the loyalty shown to Churchill despite the mistakes/ contradictions and hypocrisy. 

I guess people want to think that we have a it under control and the govt knows what it is doing, even if the evidence is very much to the contrary.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Badger said:

They have been behind the curve right from the start. The advice was available from other countries and from medical journals like the Lancet. Other countries chose to take radical action earlier whilst we were still flirting with ideas of partial herd immunity - even super loyal Jeremy Hunt criticised the approach.

Exactly this. 

I've made several posts on here over the last two or three weeks pointing out that the UK is exactly a fortnight behind Italy on everything coronavirus-related.

A fortnight behind on cases, a fortnight behind on deaths, a fortnight behind on preventative steps and even a fortnight behind on the general public's attitude to the measures.

People are shocked at how many deaths and cases there are in Italy now (50,000 and 3,500 respectively) but the UK will be exactly the same in a fortnight because the measures taken have been exactly the same at the same point in time.

Edited by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

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Ultimately, we seem to have learnt little from the experiences of other countries.  Perhaps they were scared to go too much too fast but it does seem that it will cost us.

Anyway, not that it matters now, some back-up to what I’ve been saying all along: Sunday Times is reporting that Dominic Cummings was, at the end of Feb, outlining the “strategy” at a ‘do’ and to quote the ST “those present say it was herd immunity, protect the economy and if that means sone pensioners die, too bad”.

For those who doubted, govt has been taking plenty of information in but not necessarily acting on the best MEDICAL advice.  As I said all along. 

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I would much rather have a government that prefers reasoned persuasion to authoritarian dikta until that becomes necessary in the last resort.

To read some the comments on here would people really prefer the Big Brother approach?

Italy and Spain have a much higher death rate currently than the UK. Some claim their health systems are better than the NHS so why is this? Italy are three weeks ahead of us on the curve it is said yet that is not the case for Spain so far as I’m aware. Germany’s mortality rate is lower than anyones. It is clear that there is not going to be a single approach that works effectively for all. As individuals we can control our own behaviour in order to try and remain healthy and the it is in the laps of the Gods. Any death is a catastrophe for those concerned yet more people die every year from seasonal flu even with a seasonal vaccine being available.

Keep well everyone and let’s hope we see the end of this pandemic by the end of the summer.

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Following this not in detail from a distance, I think it potentially misses the point to say Johnson has been following medical advice. It is obvious there is more than one medical strategy that has expert support.

Hence some countries doing it differently, and as I understand it the UK has now switched from its early strategy to a different one. And even within one strategy there are presumably slower and faster timescales that can be acted on.

My impression, which chimes with all one knows about Johnson's character flaws and his political career, is that he has shied away as much as possible and/or delayed making draconian decisions, for fear of being unpopular, and so chose the expert medical advice that fitted in with that. So that even now the UK lockdown is less severe than those on the continent.

 

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