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I've recently purchased (off Amazon) a military S10 respirator, full Mk 4 NBC suit + over-boots + rubber gloves and x2 small drums of Fullers earth......Whilst wearing my suit & mask earlier, I certainly cleared a path around me, people kept their distance and I had some weird looks whilst I bought some essentials from Sainsbury's this morning. As I concluded my 'hunter gathering' and emptied my full basket, the suitably impressed young female checkout till operator smiled and said 'Respect man.....respect'.....Although I did notice that the store security bloke did cower and hide behind the magazine & newspaper counter until I'd vacated the store.....

Ada my elderly next door neighbour came out and asked me as I was unloading my groceries what the weird 'tent thingy' was over my front door....."That's a Porton Liner Ada" I replied......"It's where I decontaminate myself before I enter my house"....."Ooh" she said "I'll have a word with my Norman and see If we can get a portaloo liner too, so when my Daughter Maureen and her hubby and the grand-kids visit, we can de-commentate them before they come into our bungalow".......I handed Ada a large old coffee jar of Fullers earth, a couple of  puffer bottles  and some spare decontamination pads....."Here's something to get you on your way Ada, they're gratis"...."Blot bang rub Ada, blot bang rub - plus washing with copious amounts of hot soapy water before letting visitors in or after you having ventured outside anywhere"......

"I'll pop around for a cuppa later Ada if that's ok with you? I'll show you how to snare and kill a rabbit, then how to skin it and remove it's guts"......"That sounds interesting Mr Mello" Ada replied.....She then said "Mr Mello I'll show how to make a carrot cake followed by me demonstrating (whilst blindfolded) how to strip down and re-assemble my Norman's AK 47 assault rifle, before we blat off a couple off magazines in the back-garden at targets pinned to a railway sleeper, we can then compare groupings?"......"Sounds good Ada." I replied. "I can see you and Norman are prepared for all eventualities or escalation of this viral pandemic."

"I was also wondering Ada, if you could then show me your special technique on how you always seem to get your throwing knives to stick deep into your garden oak tree trunk every time without fail? You've certainly got a special talent there Ada"......"Yes Mr Mello, it's just some skills me and my Norman have accrued after our recent retirement"......"Well Ada I'll catcha later, I can see and hear your Norman's coming down the road in his customised Saracen armoured car.....Look at that grin on his face, he's a happy chappy"....."Yes Mr Mello, he's been to Screwfix to get some gaffer and duct tape, we're going to seal around the windows, you can't be too careful since it's now really difficult to get those hand sanitizer bottles and them white thingy face masks, I put it down to scaremongering and those foolishly panic buying over some glorified flu epidemic."....."You could be right Ada" I replied....

"Anyway cheerio Ada, and don't forget now, 'blot bang rub'" as I grinned and entered my Porton Liner.......   

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7 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

You are incorrect O/P (but right about those most people are currently wearing.)

 

Proper N95 respirator masks are effective for protection.**

All masks,to a greater or lesser extent, prevent an infected person's breath and cough blobs spreading. 

Proper eye protectors are necessary along with N95 to prevent infection ... which enters through nose, throat and eyes.

Rubber gloves (disposable) are necessary when touching hard surfaces, eg atm number pads.

** Be careful of fakes on Amazon and especially EBay.

A well fitting N95 respirator will provide some protection as you say.

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As stated

" However, masks will probably make little difference if you’re just walking around town or taking a bus so there is no need to bulk-buy a huge supply. "

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/can-a-face-mask-stop-coronavirus-covid-19-facts-checked

the concern here is twofold

firstly it stokes up fear and almost panic as some will feel that they are in danger by not parading around in this fashion item, and aside from the overall well being of society panic can cause stress which affects the human immune system

secondly it is the resources that are being wasted on such nonsense, resources that should be available to medical staff and those working closely with likely 'infected' patients

I spoke with a friend of a relation who was telling me that their hospital procurement is having trouble getting in enough paper towels as more are now being used, it seems not to occur to some folk that most items come through a narrow manufacture/supply chain or that the stuff they have hoarded away might be better in the local hospital

she also told me about winter pressure whereby the hospital has a heavier load in the winter due to older patient suffering flu. pneumonia and the thought is to try to delay things as mucg as possible until the NHS has cleared itself of this pressure

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10 hours ago, Bill said:

As stated

" However, masks will probably make little difference if you’re just walking around town or taking a bus so there is no need to bulk-buy a huge supply. "

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/can-a-face-mask-stop-coronavirus-covid-19-facts-checked

the concern here is twofold

firstly it stokes up fear and almost panic as some will feel that they are in danger by not parading around in this fashion item, and aside from the overall well being of society panic can cause stress which affects the human immune system

secondly it is the resources that are being wasted on such nonsense, resources that should be available to medical staff and those working closely with likely 'infected' patients

I spoke with a friend of a relation who was telling me that their hospital procurement is having trouble getting in enough paper towels as more are now being used, it seems not to occur to some folk that most items come through a narrow manufacture/supply chain or that the stuff they have hoarded away might be better in the local hospital

she also told me about winter pressure whereby the hospital has a heavier load in the winter due to older patient suffering flu. pneumonia and the thought is to try to delay things as mucg as possible until the NHS has cleared itself of this pressure

From the same article: If you are likely to be in close contact with someone infected, a mask cuts the chance of the disease being passed on. If you’re showing symptoms of coronavirus, or have been diagnosed, wearing a mask can also protect others.

I agree that medical staff should be given priority. However, it can't be denied that masks can help (especially as part of a coordinated response).

 

I accept there is a good reason for certain suffolk people to wear masks........................ they are ugly

for the rest of us, there's no need

I agree with the first half of this statement but the second half is wrong

Care to retract the statement calling me a numpty? 

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3 hours ago, Taiwan Canary said:

Care to retract the statement calling me a numpty? 

" The wearing of masks is one of the factors which has helped Taiwan to be the most successful country in the world in stopping the spread.  "

 

" However, masks will probably make little difference if you’re just walking around town or taking a bus so there is no need to bulk-buy a huge supply. "

This from the WHO " If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection. "

A spokesman said Public Health England informed the ASA "that they do not recommend the use of face masks as a means of protection from coronavirus  We understood there was very little evidence of widespread benefit from their use outside of clinical settings," the ASA said in a statement.

Suggesting that wearing masks by everyone as in Taiwan has helped is both incorrect and dangerous.

Incorrect as above. and dangerous as it is putting out false information. Information that when shown to be false usually leads to a mistrust of other information.

So stop trying to mislead people. The success in the far east is down to early intervention, learned from the sars outbreak.

 

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13 minutes ago, Bill said:

" The wearing of masks is one of the factors which has helped Taiwan to be the most successful country in the world in stopping the spread.  "

 

" However, masks will probably make little difference if you’re just walking around town or taking a bus so there is no need to bulk-buy a huge supply. "

This from the WHO " If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection. "

A spokesman said Public Health England informed the ASA "that they do not recommend the use of face masks as a means of protection from coronavirus  We understood there was very little evidence of widespread benefit from their use outside of clinical settings," the ASA said in a statement.

Suggesting that wearing masks by everyone as in Taiwan has helped is both incorrect and dangerous.

Incorrect as above. and dangerous as it is putting out false information. Information that when shown to be false usually leads to a mistrust of other information.

So stop trying to mislead people. The success in the far east is down to early intervention, learned from the sars outbreak.

 

It's really not. What is dangerous is telling people that wearing them is useless. You numpty.

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12 minutes ago, Taiwan Canary said:

It's really not. What is dangerous is telling people that wearing them is useless. You numpty.

So any success in Tawain and other Far East countries is NOT down to early intervention ? 🤨

Still there's always the old faithful fall back. Make up something I have not said and so refute that.

I have not said masks are useless, nor even used the word useless.

All I have done is mocked users and posted up information from reputable sources that state that the average person going about their business does not need a face masku

What I suspect is that you have posted on here in some triumphalist manner, without having the slightest idea about cause and effect.

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15 minutes ago, Bill said:

So any success in Tawain and other Far East countries is NOT down to early intervention ? 🤨

Still there's always the old faithful fall back. Make up something I have not said and so refute that.

I have not said masks are useless, nor even used the word useless.

All I have done is mocked users and posted up information from reputable sources that state that the average person going about their business does not need a face masku

What I suspect is that you have posted on here in some triumphalist manner, without having the slightest idea about cause and effect.

I never said it wasn't down to early intervention. Are you making up something I said and refuting it? (although the rationing and prescribed use of masks was one of the interventions)

"for the rest of us, there's no need" "wearing a mask is no more than a 'fashion statement' as explaned elsewhere"

I post out of genuine concern for friends and family back in the UK. I hope people are able to purchase and use masks responsibly and do whatever they can to stay safe.

The Guardian article you quoted earlier was busting the myth that masks don't work so someone seems to agree that they might be helpful.

No issues with cause and effect here, if people are asymptomatic but spreading the disease and masks can reduce this spread, then wearing them in crowded public spaces (even if you are not 'sick') may be helpful. 

I'm now done with this thread.

OTBC and I hope all of you PUPs stay safe!

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On 14/03/2020 at 18:50, Bill said:

of you claiming that an expert in the field is wrong but you with no evidence to back your claim are correct

whilst you guff may help you deal with this it does not help the wider problem

Taiwan among others acted very early using it's experience of SARS

where the concentration was on checking and monitoring - not some buffoonery that wearing a mask has any real effect... that is just a comfort blanket

it is the ignorance spread by the likes of you Trump and others that has contributedto the greater spread than it should have been

now why not refute what the doctor has said- or even tell us what Taiwan is actually doing

This is a perfect example of what Trump and Steve Bannon have created. By filling the media with mis-information and casting discrediting reliable sources, no one knows what to believe.

 

Whether the doctor in the article is right or not, it's probably safer to be overly cautious and wear a mask. You can't blame 'idiots' for trying to be safe.

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2 minutes ago, Taiwan Canary said:

I never said it wasn't down to early intervention. Are you making up something I said and refuting it? (although the rationing and prescribed use of masks was one of the interventions)

"for the rest of us, there's no need" "wearing a mask is no more than a 'fashion statement' as explaned elsewhere"

I post out of genuine concern for friends and family back in the UK. I hope people are able to purchase and use masks responsibly and do whatever they can to stay safe.

The Guardian article you quoted earlier was busting the myth that masks don't work so someone seems to agree that they might be helpful.

No issues with cause and effect here, if people are asymptomatic but spreading the disease and masks can reduce this spread, then wearing them in crowded public spaces (even if you are not 'sick') may be helpful. 

I'm now done with this thread.

OTBC and I hope all of you PUPs stay safe!

actually you did, as  "It's really not. "

It's not about whether masks works as you are trying to twist it, but about when they need to be used.  And in contradiction to your claim the WHO and every other authority in this field has said it is not necessary in everyday like. Hence my mocking those walking around in them - outside of clinical areas.

Using responsibly is I would state not causing a panic by unnecessary use. Something even you seem to have backtracked on as your original post was about how effective it supposedly was. My point about it being a 'fashion statement is shown from a Taiwanese website

It’s a fashionable trend that stems from, I believe, the desire to cover half of one’s face in the hopes of somehow looking better.

Lots of ‘basic’ teenagers like taking selfies with face masks on because it’s ‘cute’.

There’s an entire industry devoted to selling face masks as fashion accessories. Some of them are disgustingly adorable.

 

Air pollution! Especially in the city areas, like Taipei, where lots of people ride motorcycles, wearing face masks protects your delicate nostrils from the pungent stench of exhaust smoke.

During wintertime, face masks made of cloth, like the ones in the picture above, are actually really useful for keeping the face warm.

Taiwan has now relaxed it's rules on exporting these masks - if only that it has become obvious how they are not necessary. Howeverbthe danger is that the ill informed will be sending them out across the world as some sort of medical help to family and friends. Causing yet another reason to ramp up the panic. Scaremongering and spreading misinformation should be seen as beyond 'bad behaviour'. They locked folk up in WW2 for such action.

About time some stronger action was taken again to stop scaremongering by sections of the media and individuals.

 

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9 minutes ago, Yellow and Green said:

This is a perfect example of what Trump and Steve Bannon have created. By filling the media with mis-information and casting discrediting reliable sources, no one knows what to believe.

Whether the doctor in the article is right or not, it's probably safer to be overly cautious and wear a mask. You can't blame 'idiots' for trying to be safe.

 

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I think it is quite easy to 'know what to believe'

The WHO, doctors in relevant fields, the NHS ..... who are all saying the same would suggest they know what they are saying.

'Being over cautious is merely trying to excuse misuse of tresources. Masks and similar should be directed to medical need, not fashion displays. Same as with food and soap etc

Causing panic by 'being over cautious ' has led to empty shelves in the supermarket, hospitals running low on supplies, sanitisers being stolen and fairly soon counterfeit goods hitting an over excited market.... shades of the Third Man.

Being over cautious is going to A&E with a cold. Not helping the vunerablle because of fear of transmission.

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Further evidence of the dangers caused by treating vital medical equipment as a fashion item

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/coronavirus-face-mask-n25-shortage-symptoms-a9389536.html

" “We can’t stop Covid-19 without protecting health workers first,” he said, referring to the ill

“It would entirely unravel global cooperation if Covid-19 turned into a major killer, and we see hundreds of thousands deaths in lower income countries with relatively few deaths in the global north,” said Gostin, who is also the director of the WHO’s Collaborating Center on Public Health Law & Human Rights. ness caused by the virus. "

" Public health experts are concerned that should more developed countries ban exports of masks and protective gear, poorer nations could be at risk of widening outbreaks, particularly among medical workers. "

Without co-ordinated action you will see a US style approach where clinical need is over ridden by personal greed. Where a 'pet plan insurance' system to provide healthcare is shown to be inadequate when an infection is cummunal, not personal. Republican voters are objecting to any vaccine being free, as it will benefit those who are not involved in this bizarre system.

Great you have a vaccine but your unemployed neighbour doesn't. That should work out well, I should imagine. Similarly if richer Western citizens are able to buy up supplies than cannot be afforded by poorer countries how is that going to benefit the former - as the virus will remain prevelent and able to re-emerge back into those countries.

What's needed is collective action, not personal selfishness.

 

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56 minutes ago, Bill said:

I think it is quite easy to 'know what to believe'

The WHO, doctors in relevant fields, the NHS ..... who are all saying the same would suggest they know what they are saying.

'Being over cautious is merely trying to excuse misuse of tresources. Masks and similar should be directed to medical need, not fashion displays. Same as with food and soap etc

Causing panic by 'being over cautious ' has led to empty shelves in the supermarket, hospitals running low on supplies, sanitisers being stolen and fairly soon counterfeit goods hitting an over excited market.... shades of the Third Man.

Being over cautious is going to A&E with a cold. Not helping the vunerablle because of fear of transmission.

You would think it would be easy to know what to believe, yet Trump and Johnson are in power so clearly a majority of people (in the US and UK, at least) seem to be struggling. Words of wisdom from people like Michael Gove 'I think the British public have had enough of experts' hardly help the problem.

I agree with you to an extent but this is an extraordinary event and it is understandable that people are worries and being over cautious.

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