FA Chairman - season won't be completed

[dylanisabaddog 4,876]

Reported in The Times today. The FA Chairman told yesterday's meeting that the season will not be completed. 

Also a disturbing comment from a TV executive about money. I think it's unlikely that Sky will be asking for their money back. If they annoy the Premier League they will lose the contract and would then go under

https://www.eurosport.co.uk/football/premier-league/2019-2020/football-news-english-domestic-football-season-cannot-be-completed-according-to-greg-clarke_sto7703540/story.shtml

The 2 clubs who called for the season to be voided were Spurs and West Ham (I suspect that Webber will have listened and said as little as possible). 

Sky will save £400m in prize money. From memory, we budgeted to come bottom so we will only lose £2m in that respect 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/11167319/premier-league-miss-prize-money-season-abandoned/amp/

Edited March 14, 2020 by dylanisabaddog

[vlad666 203]

Surely they can’t enforce relegation if the games aren’t completed and it’s mathematically possible to survive. I’d imagine they’d be massive lawsuits. 

[dylanisabaddog 4,876]

Just now, vlad666 said:

Surely they can’t enforce relegation if the games aren’t completed and it’s mathematically possible to survive. I’d imagine they’d be massive lawsuits. 

If the season is treated as void it will be treated as if it didn't happen and we'll start again in September ish. The reason being that the Premier League rule is that every team has to play every other team at home and away. 

Obviously the Premier League can decide what it wants but as soon as the Government bans large events their hands are tied. 

It seems to me that starting again with no promotion/relegation is the only option open to them. As you say, anything else would result in potentially expensive legal action. 

One bizarre outcome of this approach is that the team who finished 5th last season will qualify for Europe in place of Manchester City. That was Arsenal 

[ricardo 7,349]

The chances of restarting are near enough nil and even beginning next season on time seems improbable.

Nul and void is the cleanest option, nobody can claim they are promoted or relegated yet.

[dylanisabaddog 4,876]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11669/11957402/premier-league-season-should-be-declared-null-and-void-if-its-not-finished-says-west-hams-karren-brady

[Aggy 752]

Even if we “lose” £2 mil because of Sky not paying a proportion of the TV money which represents the un-played games, if the season is null and void, we’d be getting  premier league pay next year as well - which doesn’t look likely at the moment if the season finishes.

[Indy 3,286]

I don’t have an issue with the season being called off, but I think a full transfer ban should be in place to insure no teams are allowed to strengthen either.

That said the reaction globally is absolutely over the top, IMO, for %80 of people won’t even know they have it, thinks a bad cold, only 1 in 5 over 75 year olds with serious complications are at serious risk and we’ve effectively closed the world down.

The reality is obesity will kill far more people this year and yet this than Coronavirus.

Still it is what it is.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

The chances of restarting are near enough nil and even beginning next season on time seems improbable.

Nul and void is the cleanest option, nobody can claim they are promoted or relegated yet.

Already the idea of voiding seems to be catching on, if not yet taking precedence. One idea mooted is that there is no PL relegation and Leeds and West Brom get promoted into a 22-team PL, with then five getting relegated at the end of the next season. It is clever because it avoids the risk of legal action from PL clubs, which is what would be the biggest fear. But hard to see some EFL clubs not going to court.

[dylanisabaddog 4,876]

13 minutes ago, Indy said:

I don’t have an issue with the season being called off, but I think a full transfer ban should be in place to insure no teams are allowed to strengthen either.

That said the reaction globally is absolutely over the top, IMO, for %80 of people won’t even know they have it, thinks a bad cold, only 1 in 5 over 75 year olds with serious complications are at serious risk and we’ve effectively closed the world down.

The reality is obesity will kill far more people this year and yet this than Coronavirus.

Still it is what it is.

You could argue for a transfer ban but it would go against employment law. 

If, as seems likely, Sky doesn't pay the bonus for final League positions it will have far less effect on us than the other teams who traditionally use that money to fund summer purchases. 

[dylanisabaddog 4,876]

Just now, PurpleCanary said:

Already the idea of voiding seems to be catching on, if not yet taking precedence. One idea mooted is that there is no PL relegation and Leeds and West Brom get promoted into a 22-team PL, with then five getting relegated at the end of the next season. It is clever because it avoids the risk of legal action from PL clubs, which is what would be the biggest fear. But hard to see some EFL clubs not going to court.

Fulham are only 6 points behind West Brom and still have to play them. Even Forest in 5th place could legally claim to have a chance of reaching the top 2.

[ricardo 7,349]

2 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

. It is clever because it avoids the risk of legal action from PL clubs, which is what would be the biggest fear. But hard to see some EFL clubs not going to court.

Since their league cannot complete, what legal argument could they make?

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

13 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Fulham are only 6 points behind West Brom and still have to play them. Even Forest in 5th place could legally claim to have a chance of reaching the top 2.

Yes, but as ricardo indicates, the alternative is that no-one gets promoted, since the season cannot be completed. And such clubs as Fulham might be quite happy for Leeds and WBA to be out of the division, and with no fewer than five clubs going up the season after. It is a clever idea.

[JF 694]

42 minutes ago, Indy said:

I don’t have an issue with the season being called off, but I think a full transfer ban should be in place to insure no teams are allowed to strengthen either.

That said the reaction globally is absolutely over the top, IMO, for %80 of people won’t even know they have it, thinks a bad cold, only 1 in 5 over 75 year olds with serious complications are at serious risk and we’ve effectively closed the world down.

The reality is obesity will kill far more people this year and yet this than Coronavirus.

Still it is what it is.

Luckily you’re not making the decisions then. The worlds top scientists and doctors expertise or some bloke called Indy on the pink un forums opinion. I’ll side with the expert’s 

Edited March 14, 2020 by JF

[A Load of Squit 5,135]

3 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Yes, but as ricardo indicates, the alternative is that no-one gets promoted, since the season cannot be completed. And such clubs as Fulham might be quite happy for Leeds and WBA to be out of the division, and with no fewer than five clubs going up the season after. It is a clever idea.

Do you mean 5 clubs going down?

 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

2 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Do you mean 5 clubs going down?

 

You're right. I was distracted by my PUPS bet going bad! Of course only three would go up from the Championship that next season to get the PL back down to 20 clubs. But still the likes of Fulham would fancy their chances with Leeds and West Brom out of the way and  with no parachute-payment clubs coming down from the PL.

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

The reality is obesity will kill far more people this year and yet this than Coronavirus.

 

I'm not sure that this is what the evidence says. Obese people tend to die younger but this does mot mean that the it is the obesity that kills them. This tends to confuse correlation with causation. There are other possibilities for example, lifestyle factors. 

e.g. eating a poor diet or lack of exercise could be the cause of the death and obesity just one symptom amongst others. I would hazard a guess that obese people are less likely to be able to walk a mile in 4 minutes, so you could design a study which ignored weight and simply conclude that an inability to walk briskly was a major cause of death - again this would be to confuse causation with correlation. The inability to walk at a particular speed was the symptom not the cause.

Besides which, the data I have seen suggests a greater mortality rate than you suggest.

 

I should have said 15 minutes for a mile not 4! (As pointed out below). 15 minutes = 4 miles per hour, a brisk walk.

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Badger
Added the last sentence to correct a mistake that I had made

[Badger 2,405]

26 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Yes, but as ricardo indicates, the alternative is that no-one gets promoted, since the season cannot be completed. And such clubs as Fulham might be quite happy for Leeds and WBA to be out of the division, and with no fewer than five clubs going up the season after. It is a clever idea.

I agree with your general point, but I think the idea would be that 5 would go down the next year, and only three up.

😳

Edited March 14, 2020 by Badger
Corrected error

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,783]

9 minutes ago, Badger said:

I agree with your general point, but I think the idea would be that 5 would go down the next year, and only three up.

😳

But even so, teams like Fulham and Forest would really fancy their chances getting one of the three promotion places next season if Leeds and West Brom were out of the picture.

[Badger 2,405]

5 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

But even so, teams like Fulham and Forest would really fancy their chances getting one of the three promotion places next season if Leeds and West Brom were out of the picture.

Yes I agree - especially with no relegated teams either!

[NorthCarolinaYellow 197]

Voiding everything is the fairest and least painful solution. It’s the correct choice.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

34 minutes ago, Badger said:

I'm not sure that this is what the evidence says. Obese people tend to die younger but this does mot mean that the it is the obesity that kills them. This tends to confuse correlation with causation. There are other possibilities for example, lifestyle factors. 

e.g. eating a poor diet or lack of exercise could be the cause of the death and obesity just one symptom amongst others. I would hazard a guess that obese people are less likely to be able to walk a mile in 4 minutes, so you could design a study which ignored weight and simply conclude that an inability to walk briskly was a major cause of death - again this would be to confuse causation with correlation. The inability to walk at a particular speed was the symptom not the cause.

Besides which, the data I have seen suggests a greater mortality rate than you suggest.

 

There aren't many people that can walk a mile in under 4 mins. Even Roger Bannister had to run a bit to make that time.😄😉😂👍

[Capt. Pants 4,202]

1 hour ago, Aggy said:

Even if we “lose” £2 mil because of Sky not paying a proportion of the TV money which represents the un-played games, if the season is null and void, we’d be getting  premier league pay next year as well - which doesn’t look likely at the moment if the season finishes.

Null and void might mean a full refund to pre paying customers in which case the loss will be greater.

Will Sky want their money back?

[Badger 2,405]

17 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

There aren't many people that can walk a mile in under 4 mins. Even Roger Bannister had to run a bit to make that time.😄😉😂👍

Yes sorry, I meant 15 minutes - 4 miles per hour! 😂 (A brisk walk!)

[Aggy 752]

25 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Null and void might mean a full refund to pre paying customers in which case the loss will be greater.

Will Sky want their money back?

Fairly sure Sky’s t&cs allow them to vary the programmes being shown without the customer having much come back - as long as they air something else then I don’t think customers will have much come back. If they offer any refund I can’t see it being more than a proportionate amount for the part of the season cancelled. But most packages aren’t just for live games.

Would Sky want their money back? I doubt it. If they did, then the clubs and the EPL wouldn’t be very inclined to enter into any contracts with them in the future. Yes sky might get back a bit this season, but would probably lose in the long run.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

Yes, but as ricardo indicates, the alternative is that no-one gets promoted, since the season cannot be completed. And such clubs as Fulham might be quite happy for Leeds and WBA to be out of the division, and with no fewer than five clubs going up the season after. It is a clever idea.

Putting my embarrassing mistake🤢aside I can (I think...) see how it might work.

The PL would gain 2 but lose none down, going to 22 clubs for one season.

The Championship would lose the top two upwards but lose none down, and gain the top two from League One, so 24 clubs.

League One (which is 23 clubs this season because of Bury's demise) would lose the top two upwards and lose none down, but gain the top three in the automatic slots from League Two, so getting back to 24.

League Two would lose the top three upwards, going down to 21 clubs, and lose no-one downards. And presumably gain one or two or whatever from non-league.

But as far as the top four leagues are concerned all the clubs currently in the automatic slots woukd go up and no-one would be relegated, so any legal challenges would be hard to argue.

[HazzaJet 252]

If the season doesn’t get completed then I think that there should be no champions, promotion, or relegation as no teams are officially champions, promoted, or relegated yet - anything is possible and we might have stayed up. I also feel that a lot of our autumn results were down to injury - had Klose/Zimbo been fit when Amadou was playing I think we could have done better. Also ban all clubs from signing players who aren’t out of contract so teams can restart next season with how their squad would have looked in case they’d received no offers for players

[Canary dwarf 221]

5 minutes ago, HazzaJet said:

If the season doesn’t get completed then I think that there should be no champions, promotion, or relegation as no teams are officially champions, promoted, or relegated yet - anything is possible and we might have stayed up. I also feel that a lot of our autumn results were down to injury - had Klose/Zimbo been fit when Amadou was playing I think we could have done better. Also ban all clubs from signing players who aren’t out of contract so teams can restart next season with how their squad would have looked in case they’d received no offers for players

It would be mega harsh on Liverpool though.

[Aggy 752]

15 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Putting my embarrassing mistake🤢aside I can (I think...) see how it might work.

The PL would gain 2 but lose none down, going to 22 clubs for one season.

The Championship would lose the top two upwards but lose none down, and gain the top two from League One, so 24 clubs.

League One (which is 23 clubs this season because of Bury's demise) would lose the top two upwards and lose none down, but gain the top three in the automatic slots from League Two, so getting back to 24.

League Two would lose the top three upwards, going down to 21 clubs, and lose no-one downards. And presumably gain one or two or whatever from non-league.

But as far as the top four leagues are concerned all the clubs currently in the automatic slots woukd go up and no-one would be relegated, so any legal challenges would be hard to argue.

I believe the conference north and south were due to expand to 24 teams (from 22) starting 20/21 season. If you push that back a year, it could help accommodate the higher number of relegations needed to get back to current league sizes (if your plan above was followed).

[Fuzzar 1,702]

14 minutes ago, Canary dwarf said:

It would be mega harsh on Liverpool though.

That's the beauty of the proposal. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I can see this getting very awkward. We would obviously be in one firing line with clubs from the EFL wanting promotion. It would filter through all the divisions with clubs claiming they spent big in Janiary because of promotion or relegation.

Then the clubs in with a chance of the CL and the money it brings would claim unfair. The the clubs from the National League etc etc.

There really is only one way and that is as Ricardo has championed. It is clear and clean. But I do foresee challenges.