Corona Virus main thread

[Aggy 753]

5 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

As you said before, the absolute numbers are not so important - the real question is whether or not we are doing as well as we could and should be doing and it seems pretty clear IMO that we are not.

This is quite clearly nonsense. The real question is obviously the absolute numbers.

If we had, for instance, one case in the whole country but it could have been avoided, that’s clearly not very important at all.

[Well b back 3,198]

28,011 cases in France, Portugal, Spain and Italy combined I am hearing. Deaths 148, population 184.6 million. Who knows wether their cases will go up or down but totally irrelevant.

[Aggy 753]

10 minutes ago, Well b back said:

28,011 cases in France, Portugal, Spain and Italy combined I am hearing. Deaths 148, population 184.6 million. Who knows wether their cases will go up or down but totally irrelevant.

Do you think we ought to start doing as France are now doing and basically banning all over 65s who haven’t had a booster from getting into public places?

[ricardo 7,380]

13 minutes ago, Well b back said:

28,011 cases in France, Portugal, Spain and Italy combined I am hearing. Deaths 148, population 184.6 million. Who knows wether their cases will go up or down but totally irrelevant.

I can tell you with an absolute certainty that they will be going up. In fact they already are and it is completely relevant. The data doesn't have a bias it speaks for itself.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

8 hours ago, sonyc said:

Lots of graphs and commentary on JMB's latest tweet (click for extra graphs and trend analysis). 

 

Great thread that. The line at the end was good. "we could be doing better with masks but if we have to have a culture war then it's better one with masks than with vaccines".

That's the key, get your booster and crack on. I suspect if things do get bad to the point that the idea of lockdowns comes back then sentiment to antivaxxers will hit an all time low.

My main gripe is still with people 50 and older or vulnerable failing to protect themselves. If it came to it, Singapores idea of making them pay for their covid care is the best idea. Might upset a few people though...

[Well b back 3,198]

58 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Do you think we ought to start doing as France are now doing and basically banning all over 65s who haven’t had a booster from getting into public places?

Austria are about to lock down the unvaccinated with no freedom of movement to anybody not fully vaccinated.
I am quite happy with what we are doing in the U.K. thanks. Don’t see why Europe is suddenly only a few countries.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Well b back

[Well b back 3,198]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

I can tell you with an absolute certainty that they will be going up. In fact they already are and it is completely relevant. The data doesn't have a bias it speaks for itself.

Let’s hope you are wrong as these are 4 of the most vaccinated countries in the world, with Portugal claiming they have vaccinated ‘ almost everybody that can be vaccinated ‘ ie 87% of the population. Portugal don’t declare their boosters on world data but since the 4/10/21 they claim to give everybody a booster at the six month anniversary, immuno suppressed 5 months. If you are right and their case numbers increase to huge numbers then let’s hope the vaccines do their work ( which they should do as per Israel ) and keep deaths down to very low levels. 
If Portugal go into another big wave that does not give the rest of the world a lot of chance of avoiding one, but based on the evidence from Israel, who are not particularly well vaccinated I think we will be ok.

[Aggy 753]

10 hours ago, Well b back said:

Austria are about to lock down the unvaccinated with no freedom of movement to anybody not fully vaccinated.
I am quite happy with what we are doing in the U.K. thanks. Don’t see why Europe is suddenly only a few countries.

Yes I saw - I think it’s just one province in Austria and they need sign off from the centre though. The province with lowest vaccine uptake. All sounded a bit like it wasn’t going to happen and is a bit of ‘propaganda’ leaked to “scare” people into getting vaccinated I thought.

Doesn’t seem like a bad idea though IMO, or for over 65s to have to have had a booster jab. If we are happy to lockdown people who have very little risk from covid, why not ‘lockdown’ for the good of society those who are most likely to cause issues for the nhs (unvaccinated people and elderly people without boosters)?

[sonyc 5,508]

Big queues today getting my booster...at check in, outside the vaccine pod and then inside. Got to be a good sign hasn't it?

 

[CANARYKING 637]

Just read that Holland going into three week lockdown, no crowds allowed at football 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

15 hours ago, ricardo said:

I can tell you with an absolute certainty that they will be going up. In fact they already are and it is completely relevant. The data doesn't have a bias it speaks for itself.

You do sound as if you are gloating Ricardo. I hope you aren't as whatever happens, we need the whole world to be going down.

[Aggy 753]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

You do sound as if you are gloating Ricardo. I hope you aren't as whatever happens, we need the whole world to be going down.

I think most people on here have been “gloating” about how badly we are doing compared to everywhere else. Ricardo seems to just be pointing out that not everything is as rosey outside of the UK as many on here like to make out.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

10 minutes ago, Aggy said:

I think most people on here have been “gloating” about how badly we are doing compared to everywhere else. Ricardo seems to just be pointing out that not everything is as rosey outside of the UK as many on here like to make out.

I think most is not correct. And also, Ricardo is generally the one posting charts and graphs.

[ricardo 7,380]

National

40,375 - 145

rate of decrease of 6.5% over 7 days, the drop is flattening out a bit now so maybe another plateau.

 

Local

Norwich rate 242.3  down 22.1% (7 days)

N&N Patients

09-11-2021                        30

Vax     

1st Dose      36,383             87.8% done                               Norwich numbers   77.1% 

2nd Dose     22,485             79.9% done                                                                  70.1%

Booster     370,989     total          11,823,643

In Hospital (a steady drop this week)

11-11-2021	8,652
10-11-2021	8,807
09-11-2021	8,888
08-11-2021	8,958
07-11-2021	8,815
06-11-2021	8,796
05-11-2021	9,044

[Van wink 2,994]

Dropping atm reflected in todays ONS data

[ricardo 7,380]

3 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

You do sound as if you are gloating Ricardo. I hope you aren't as whatever happens, we need the whole world to be going down.

As I continue to remind you, the data speaks for itself.

The waves each country experiences are not synchronised so getting excited about low numbers in Europe a month ago was always going to end in tears. We are a couple of months ahead of most so any vaccine waning has occurred here first. We are now seeing a similar wave take off on the continent.

I realise this doesn't chime well with those who for whatever reason seem desperate to paint an erroneous picture of the UK being at the bottom of the pile. Having looked at the data I am more than ever certain that my statement months ago that when all is done and dusted, we are going to come out very much average in excess deaths.

[ricardo 7,380]

England only data continues to show a slow decline nationally. We can still expect some localised spikes.

Edited November 12, 2021 by ricardo

[ricardo 7,380]

Austria to impose lockdown for the unvaccinated.

https://bnonews.com/index.php/2021/11/austria-lockdown-for-unvaccinated-people/

.

Netherlands to impose new lockdown and restrictions affecting all people - vaccinated or not - effective from tomorrow night.

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1459119157295861761

 

Both these counties now recording cases in the 70k/80k range  if compared with the UK on a population basis.

not good, not good at all.

Edited November 12, 2021 by ricardo

[Aggy 753]

4 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think most is not correct. And also, Ricardo is generally the one posting charts and graphs.

Are you suggesting we stop following the science (charts and graphs) and just make it up?

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

8 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Austria to impose lockdown for the unvaccinated.

https://bnonews.com/index.php/2021/11/austria-lockdown-for-unvaccinated-people/

.

Netherlands to impose new lockdown and restrictions affecting all people - vaccinated or not - effective from tomorrow night.

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1459119157295861761

 

Both these counties now recording cases in the 70k/80k range  if compared with the UK on a population basis.

not good, not good at all.

Very concerning to see and I hope it helps make people less complacent here and get their boosters ASAP !

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

Very good news for the UK from the ONS numbers out today which are for the week ending 6th November.

 

Basically the % infected in England has fallen from 2.02% the previous week to 1.70% which is a decent reduction (it's gone down from 1 person in 50,  to 1 person in 60 having Covid, if you prefer to look at it that way).  This follows what was shown by the daily PCR tests for that period, and supports my view that the PCR daily tests, and the later ONS random tests, for the same period are moving consistently - which is very helpful because the daily PCR test numbers come out more quickly, the ONS numbers have a longer delay until we get them but are (hopefully) more reliable as they are a random sample.

 

So good news, especially as the daily PCR numbers (looking at the week on week numbers) continue to decline this week.

[sonyc 5,508]

One for @Well b back really....I was asking if they had been troubled by anti-vaxxers at the vaccination hub up here. They have on a few occasions and police have been called (the station is about 200 yards away). The tactic the volunteers have used to best effect has been to ignore them because the main thing the trouble causers want is attention for the opportunity to film and upload to YouTube. Getting conflict provides them oxygen for a better film so they can feel aggrieved.

The police have also suggested getting in a very loud music system to play when they do their filming. This means that uploaded films (a) are less effective with background noise and (b) songs played on uploaded files are in contravention of YouTube's policy on music rights - they tend to get pulled.

Anyway, just thought it might be worth sharing.

On a very positive note, at this one centre alone (of many) they are accepting walk ins as well as bookings and ...today they were gearing up for 500 jabs. The trend is expected to continue too.

Edited November 12, 2021 by sonyc

[KernowCanary 214]

This virus has made me hate quizzes. I used to enjoy them as a contestant and enjoy them as a quizmaster, but now we have them once every week on a stupid video link to “keep the team connected”, it’s just so tedious now. Some of the rubbish they think up as questions makes me lose the will to live.

Also, I’m starting to think Herd Immunity isn’t going to work and a lot of re-infections are happening in Austria and the Netherlands.

[ricardo 7,380]

Big spike in Ireland, equates to 75k on a UK pop adjusted basis.

France, Spain and Italy still low at the moment.

[Well b back 3,198]

37 minutes ago, sonyc said:

One for @Well b back really....I was asking if they had been troubled by anti-vaxxers at the vaccination hub up here. They have on a few occasions and police have been called (the station is about 200 yards away). The tactic the volunteers have used to best effect has been to ignore them because the main thing the trouble causers want is attention, the chance to film and upload to YouTube. Getting conflict provides them oxygen for a better film so they can feel aggrieved.

The police have also suggested getting in a very loud music system to play when they do their  filming. This means that uploaded films (a) are less effective with background noise and (b) songs played on uploaded files are in contravention of YouTube's policy on music rights - they tend to get pulled.

Anyway, just thought it might be worth sharing.

On a very positive note, at this one centre alone (of many) they are accepting walk ins as well as bookings and ...today they were gearing up for 500 jabs. The trend is expected to continue too.

Indeed, we are under instructions to ignore them, that really p***** them off, however they have good tactics to stop that happening. There is one particular site that we have huge problems with and have to have security all the time, I am not allowed to say the location. It is regularly closed down ( we don’t even open it now on Saturdays ) by groups 250 - 500 strong, chanting things like ‘ hang them all ‘ and trying to rip our muzzles off ( this is anti vax for the word face covering ) and why are you lying the hospitals are empty. I worked that venue last Sunday and we had numerous incidents, despite our own security guards, having to call the police on 3 occasions, once when a guy was hurling objects at the van as well as horrendous abuse. I was called a murderer 3 times during the day. They take photos of us and our name badges ( security make them wipe the pictures off their phones / cameras ) so that when the time comes we can be tried and hung as per the Nuremberg trials. They will often be filming us live to attract anti vaxers and security make them stop filming.

Their views are not just about vaccinations anymore, they are about people wearing masks, the lack of hospitalisations and of course they tell us COVID is now ended. I am sure your people told you today a lot of these actions are encouraged by people in authority, a story told in the nhs is last week in a hospital BJ was asked to put a mask on 3 times and refused. Had that been me or you you would have been removed by security.

I spoke to a doctor the other day of 30 years standing who works currently on icu. He has never had bad feelings towards anybody not even the likes of drug addicts. For the 1st time in his life he feels little sympathy for those not vaccinated. He is 100% for their freedoms being taken away to protect us all and you have to say if that was done here, in the likes of Germany and Holland we would be in a 90% better place. In France it is anticipated if you don’t have your booster within 5 days of the anniversary of jab 2 you lose your vaccine passport and effectively your freedom. No such worries in Portugal who have the highest vaccination rate in the world and once again people are having their booster on the 6 month anniversary of jab 2 and for the immuno surprised 5 months. Let’s hope they can keep it up as their big booster time comes in December as was well publicised by BJ they didn’t get going until 4 months after us. 

 

[Barbe bleu 818]

1 hour ago, KernowCanary said:

 

Also, I’m starting to think Herd Immunity isn’t going to work and a lot of re-infections are happening in Austria and the Netherlands.

I hope you are wrong!  The last time I looked into it reinfection was very rare, even with the change in variants and the study that showed immunity can come from entirely different and older coronaviruses added, as far as I was concerned, to that view.

Is this something you have seen in a study or a hunch based on the rate of growth they are experiencing?

[Well b back 3,198]

1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

I hope you are wrong!  The last time I looked into it reinfection was very rare, even with the change in variants and the study that showed immunity can come from entirely different and older coronaviruses added, as far as I was concerned, to that view.

Is this something you have seen in a study or a hunch based on the rate of growth they are experiencing?

clearly the best way to avoid it is 3 vaccines and catching it, but if you were not vaccinated you would have a fair chance of catching it each year. Just a good job we didn’t follow some of those early theories that if 85% of us caught it we would wipe it out. The virus has not been around long enough for any absoloute data but it is believed if you were vaccinated you would catch it every 18 months at longest. If what you say was completely accurate Portugal should now be clear of cases, but they aren’t with some saying they are going to rocket, but personally as I have said I don’t think they will.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02825-8
https://www.nsf.gov/discoveries/disc_summ.jsp?cntn_id=303705&org=NSF&from=news

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

6 hours ago, Aggy said:

Are you suggesting we stop following the science (charts and graphs) and just make it up?

What has that got to do with it? You are suggesting we only follow the results that suit a particular argument.

While I have no problem with any chart published as obviously someone has used a method to prove a point, I take each one in the knowledge there will be a certain bias in the parameters used to achieve.

If Europe is beginning to struggle then it will not help us in the long run. If we are doing better than we were then that is good news.

Its not a competition. Its about trying to restrain a virus. Its about trying to convince every citizen to take the vaccine. Its about trying to return life and the economy of the World to a level prepandemic.

[Aggy 753]

16 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

What has that got to do with it? You are suggesting we only follow the results that suit a particular argument.

 

Err …no. I pointed out that you were the one whinging because someone had posted a chart you didn’t like.  

[Fen Canary 803]

I think it the graphs just show that Europe is now facing the levels the UK faced when it first opened up. The UK now appears to be on the downward trend of that particular spike, and as long as the booster programme keeps ticking over I don’t see now why we should face another significant one.

Europe keeping locked down for longer have merely pushed their spike back a couple of months, every nation is going to have to go through it unfortunately unless they want to live under various restrictions forever, although the Covid passports and mask mandates don’t appear to be doing Scotland any favours. Better to let the virus work it’s way through the population in the warmer months while jabs are fresh in the arms than in winter during the flu season. Covid is now endemic, the best we can hope for is to keep it down to flu like levels in my opinion, which is where the UK appears to be heading.