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Mrs R got her invitation to have third booster jab yesterday, exactly six months after second jab. Have booked for first thing Monday at Walk In Centre,, no problems.

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10 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Mrs R got her invitation to have third booster jab yesterday, exactly six months after second jab. Have booked for first thing Monday at Walk In Centre,, no problems.

Castle Mall (or Qtr) was 'empty' with sign 'Walk In' on Monday when I walked past. 

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1 hour ago, Aggy said:

So we’re back to if hospitals are going to be so overwhelmed that people (all people of any age) can’t get critical life saving emergency treatment, then we need to take steps to try and ensure they can get that. Anything other than emergency critical attention is not something to be dealt with by restrictions and lockdowns, but by having a fit for purpose health service in the first place - which takes money and investment. 

Agree here. But it's not going to be a case of "if" hospitals are going to be overwhelmed. At least I believe we will see a long term backed up demand (because of the urgent needs of the pandemic) that will struggle to be serviced in the next 5 years. On top of that we've lost a lot of staff who have left the service. Further, will not our NHS have to deal with endemic Covid (assuming the pandemic ends soon)? If it is going to be about forever we will have to plan and resource our health services. I believe I am correct in all these points and this is not being too pessimistic but indeed realistic?

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10 hours ago, Well b back said:

As has just been said as well all the hubs you used to use are shut down, don’t blame the NHS for that. Apparently we will not be able to vaccinate all those at risk with a booster until March 2022 at the current rate. If you have done 6 months I cannot stress enough if you haven’t been invited to book, find a walk in

Could this be an answer? Useful ideas here and very practical. Click for the thread and his very positive suggestions on the booster ....

 

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49 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Castle Mall (or Qtr) was 'empty' with sign 'Walk In' on Monday when I walked past. 

Quite a few yesterday when I went. An hour and ten minutes in and out.

Mind you, it was mid morning and it built up pretty quickly.

Edited by ricardo

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The absolute state of this lot:


Mind you, some of the replies are hilarious.

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10 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

The absolute state of this lot:


Mind you, some of the replies are hilarious.

are these the guys who find Mrs Brown's boys hilarious as well? I genuinely don't encounter anyone as truly bonkers as these in real life, nor do I know anyone that likes Mrs Brown's boys but they walk among us...

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Castle Mall (or Qtr) was 'empty' with sign 'Walk In' on Monday when I walked past. 

 

38 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Quite a few yesterday when I went. An hour and ten minutes in and out.

Mind you, it was mid morning and it built up pretty quickly.

 Then again I could of have been talking about the emptying shop units - I see Java closing

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36 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Quite a few yesterday when I went. An hour and ten minutes in and out.

Mind you, it was mid morning and it built up pretty quickly.

Vaccine stats for England can be found at https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/?dm_t=0,0,0,0,0

I guess you can add 10% and have a reasonable UK figure

It looks like 4 million boosters/3rd doses have already been done.   So about 6 million more to complete the category 1 population.

At a rate of 1.5 million a week roll out should be complete before the end of November.  The body's response should be quicker than for primary jabs so people should have good antibody levels for the flu season in December- march.

It's uptake in young age groups that needs work but realistically it's going  to take a lot of natural infection before this becomes fully set in an endemic cycle as R0 of delta is so massive.

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24 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

The absolute state of this lot:


Mind you, some of the replies are hilarious.

Best response is this one😄 ....

"this isn't going to change her mind about you seeing the kids Michael"

 

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19 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Vaccine stats for England can be found at https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/?dm_t=0,0,0,0,0

I guess you can add 10% and have a reasonable UK figure

It looks like 4 million boosters/3rd doses have already been done.   So about 6 million more to complete the category 1 population.

At a rate of 1.5 million a week roll out should be complete before the end of November.  The body's response should be quicker than for primary jabs so people should have good antibody levels for the flu season in December- march.

It's uptake in young age groups that needs work but realistically it's going  to take a lot of natural infection before this becomes fully set in an endemic cycle as R0 of delta is so massive.

Without trying to identify exactly what category 1 'is' (you seem to indicate 10M) many of the over 65's let alone over 50's won't be 6 month since 2nd jab by end of November.

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53 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Vaccine stats for England can be found at https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/?dm_t=0,0,0,0,0

I guess you can add 10% and have a reasonable UK figure

It looks like 4 million boosters/3rd doses have already been done.   So about 6 million more to complete the category 1 population.

At a rate of 1.5 million a week roll out should be complete before the end of November.  The body's response should be quicker than for primary jabs so people should have good antibody levels for the flu season in December- march.

It's uptake in young age groups that needs work but realistically it's going  to take a lot of natural infection before this becomes fully set in an endemic cycle as R0 of delta is so massive.

so theoretically, if you could have either no more boosters this winter but every young people covered or every vulnerable person boosted but no more uptake of the vaccine this winter, which would be better?

Surely if all the vulnerable are boosted then covid is relatively harmless compared to currently and certainly pre vaccination but if the young took the jab in better numbers we'd have better chance of bringing case numbers down but still leave vulnerable people susceptible to a bad case of the virus... I just wonder which would be more of a priority to focus on, I would suggest the boosters would be but I dunno the numbers so it's just speculation.

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12 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

so theoretically, if you could have either no more boosters this winter but every young people covered or every vulnerable person boosted but no more uptake of the vaccine this winter, which would be better?

Surely if all the vulnerable are boosted then covid is relatively harmless compared to currently and certainly pre vaccination but if the young took the jab in better numbers we'd have better chance of bringing case numbers down but still leave vulnerable people susceptible to a bad case of the virus... I just wonder which would be more of a priority to focus on, I would suggest the boosters would be but I dunno the numbers so it's just speculation.

Hi TJ. This is an old chestnut that goes right back to the start of the vaccines.

I was always of the opinion that IF the vaccines were sterilizing then better to give to those most likely to spread it first and hence stop it spreading pronto. The young and in work. Helps the economy too. Better to have never caught it for the vulnerable than rely on any vaccine to save you even if 90% effective (the unlucky 10% of millions is very big number.....)!

However, we sadly know that's not the case so it make no significant odds who you vaccinate first to limit 'spread' so yes do the most vulnerable first as they can't really avoid catching it now anyway and they'll take their chances same as the rest of us. Fingers crossed, Boris.

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Without trying to identify exactly what category 1 'is' (you seem to indicate 10M) many of the over 65's let alone over 50's won't be 6 month since 2nd jab by end of November.

As I recall there were ten groups that were brigaded into 3 categories.  The first one being over 75s , health and social care workers and clinically vulnerable. Which was around 10 Mill if I recall correctly.  I might be a little off but the basic premise still stands.

Yes, 50-60/70 odd won't be boosted by end of November but as they will still/should still have good antibody levels in blood one shouldn't be needed or appropriate

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1 hour ago, sonyc said:

Best response is this one😄 ....

"this isn't going to change her mind about you seeing the kids Michael"

 

This one for me:

 

B2ABB07D-DFD9-4F06-8885-78FFB1766BC9.jpeg

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Interesting statistics from the Telegraph, should calm a few nerves:

Vaccinated people dying of Covid have average age of 85 and five underlying illnesses

Calls to speed up booster rollout as study finds only the very old and already ill are likely to die of the virus as immunity begins to wane

People who are vaccinated against Covid are highly unlikely to die of the virus unless they are very old and already ill, a study in Italy has shown.

The data adds more pressure on the UK Government to speed up the booster programme for protecting double jabbed older and vulnerable people who will be beginning to lose immunity.

Analysis by the Italian National Health Institute, which looked at deaths in the country between Feb 1 and Oct 5, showed major disparities in people who were dying from Covid after being fully jabbed.

It found the average age of death in the vaccinated was 85, and that on average each person had five underlying illnesses when they caught Covid. In contrast, the average age of death among the unvaccinated was 78, with those people having four pre-existing conditions on average.

Cases of heart problems, dementia and cancer were all found to be higher in the sample of deaths among those vaccinated.

During the study period, there were 38,096 Covid deaths in Italy, among which 33,620 were unvaccinated, 2,130 had received only a single dose or were infected shortly after inoculation before antibodies had formed, and 1,440 were fully vaccinated.

"The results presented here clearly indicate that people who died after completing the vaccination course have a high level of clinical complexity, significantly higher than people who could not benefit because they haven't even started the vaccination course," the study concluded.

"It is possible to hypothesise that very elderly patients with numerous diseases may have a reduced immune response and therefore be susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection and its complications despite having been vaccinated.

"These very fragile persons with a reduced immune response are those who can benefit most from a broad vaccination coverage of the entire population, as this would further reduce the risk of infection."

It comes as new data from Scottish researchers showed vaccination was more than 90 per cent effective in preventing deaths from the delta variant.

Researchers analysed data from 5.4 million people in Scotland between April 1 and Sep 27 this year. They found the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 90 per cent effective and the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine 91 per cent effective in preventing deaths in people who have been double vaccinated.

The results, published in the New England Journal of Medicine, are the first to show across an entire country how effective vaccines are at preventing death from delta.

Prof Aziz Sheikh, the director of the University of Edinburgh's Usher Institute, said: "With the delta variant now the dominant strain in many places worldwide and posing a higher risk of hospitalisation than previous variants seen in the UK, it is reassuring to see that vaccination offers such high protection from death very shortly after the second dose."

Prof Chris Robertson, of the University of Strathclyde and Public Health Scotland, said: "Our findings are encouraging in showing that the vaccine remains an effective measure in protecting both ourselves and others from death from the most dominant variant of Covid-19."

The latest data from Public Health England shows that the death rate is three times higher for unvaccinated under-50s. Imperial College has also found that the risk of catching Covid is also far less among vaccinated people.

The most recent prevalence data found 1.76 per cent of unvaccinated people were found to have the virus, or one in 56.  Prevalence among fully vaccinated people in the three months after their second jab was around one in 285.

However, between three and six months it rose to one in 181 – a 57 per cent increase, showing the importance of a booster jab.

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National

52,009  - 115

rate of increase of 17.9% over 7 days,  slowly climbing again its murder Thursday.

 

Local

Norwich rate 456.5  up 44.9% (7 days) a big rise locally continies.

patients in N&N 

12-10-2021                 29
11-10-2021 31
10-10-2021 22
09-10-2021 19
08-10-2021 17

 

Vax        (no info available on 3rd or booster doses yet but quite a large queue for Walk in Centre when I went this morning)

1st Dose      49,080             86.2% done                               Norwich numbers   74.9% 

2nd Dose     26,365             79% done                                                                     68.4%

 

In Hospital (continuing to edge up)

20-10-2021                                   8,142
19-10-2021 7,919
18-10-2021 7,779
17-10-2021 7,414
16-10-2021 7,149
15-10-2021 7,126
14-10-2021 7,121
13-10-2021 7,069
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7 hours ago, sonyc said:

Agree here. But it's not going to be a case of "if" hospitals are going to be overwhelmed. At least I believe we will see a long term backed up demand (because of the urgent needs of the pandemic) that will struggle to be serviced in the next 5 years. On top of that we've lost a lot of staff who have left the service. Further, will not our NHS have to deal with endemic Covid (assuming the pandemic ends soon)? If it is going to be about forever we will have to plan and resource our health services. I believe I am correct in all these points and this is not being too pessimistic but indeed realistic?

Don’t disagree. But what do you do about it? Lock down until the backlog is cleared?

For comparison,  4.4m people were on a treatment waiting list in Feb 2020 pre-pandemic. That’s now 5.3m. Obviously the increase in the last year has been a lot quicker than normal, but it isn’t like we had doctors sitting round twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do in 2019. Why didn’t anyone cry for lockdown and significant restrictions when 4.4m people couldn’t get treatment, but are now doing exactly that when the number is slightly higher? We’re back into making up arbitrary number territory.

The increase (in people on a waiting list) from March 2020 to now is the same as the increase from 2016-2019. So yes the increase during covid was two or three times quicker, but like I said in my initial post, even without covid we’d have had waiting lists this long by about 2023 anyway, if not sooner, even without the worst pandemic in a century.

Nobody was even dreaming of locking down (or anything close to it) in 2018 and 2019 to “clear the backlog”, so why is it even being suggested now?

 

Edited by Aggy
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27 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Don’t disagree. But what do you do about it? Lock down until the backlog is cleared?

Raise taxes (progressively with bands maybe) to pay for investment in the NHS. This might include income tax rather than NI. Make it specific that our taxes will go to the NHS and to tackle specific problems. Make it time limited to solve a problem. Get the country behind it because of the UK wide support for the NHS.......

.........Stop demonising doctors and nurses while you legislate for it. Bring forward a massive recruitment programme to get in the nursing and consultants we have lost because of Brexit. Set up extra training schemes to support the recruitment. Look to involve schools and link skills to health vocations........

.......Target support for areas of health most needed. Public information on diabetes etc etc to try and get people thinking and making better decisions on their own health. Prioritise preventative health. Properly invest in social care not tinker around the edges......

......Re-invest in community health (the cuts have been truly shocking at local levels...midwifery, health workers, young people's mental health etc etc). Build more homes for people who need them (it's becoming a crisis).  Strengthen psychotherapy services.

There is so much a government can do. The above would be my kind of list. I would vote for anyone who would mandate to do something like it.

As for lockdowns I believe it's clear they have been proved as ineffective. Covid is transmitted by airborne particles. So measures ought to be strengthened about masks, distancing etc. Of course vaccination is paramount.

Edited by sonyc
Some paragraphs!
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14 minutes ago, Herman said:

Good riddance, her constant questions during the daily conferences were pure cringe. It was the same every night “When do you think lockdown will end?”, only to get a similar response every night of “follow the science”. She was like a kid on a journey shouting “Are we there yet!?” over and over. It’s not just that, but her negative reporting never stopped.

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23 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Raise taxes (progressively with bands maybe) to pay for investment in the NHS. This might include income tax rather than NI. Make it specific that our taxes will go to the NHS and to tackle specific problems. Make it time limited to solve a problem. Get the country behind it because of the UK wide support for the NHS.......

.........Stop demonising doctors and nurses while you legislate for it. Bring forward a massive recruitment programme to get in the nursing and consultants we have lost because of Brexit. Set up extra training schemes to support the recruitment. Look to involve schools and link skills to health vocations........

.......Target support for areas of health most needed. Public information on diabetes etc etc to try and get people thinking and making better decisions on their own health. Prioritise preventative health. Properly invest in social care not tinker around the edges......

......Re-invest in community health (the cuts have been truly shocking at local levels...midwifery, health workers, young people's mental health etc etc). Build more homes for people who need them (it's becoming a crisis).  Strengthen psychotherapy services.

There is so much a government can do. The above would be my kind of list. I would vote for anyone who would mandate to do something like it.

As for lockdowns I believe it's clear they have been proved as ineffective. Covid is transmitted by airborne particles. So measures ought to be strengthened about masks, distancing etc. Of course vaccination is paramount.

Excellent list lo which I would add:

.............Start paying doctors & nurses properly - even with huge increases in recruitment schemes and training new medical staff we are going to struggle to retain the number of doctors and nurses we still have in the NHS, never mind start filling the huge gaps without a significant uplift to current NHS salaries. 

..............Take social care seriously and put serious money into that (I know you also said that @sonyc but thought it needed its own bullet point) plus integrating it or at least aligning it to the NHS in a far more effectively than we have currently.

..............Remove the private sector from all involvement in the NHS - we have seen for many years the serious failures to deliver the services they are contracted to deliver, the huge costs involved for things that the NHS could deliver itself far more effectively and the hugely bureaucratic and costly contracting process that bogs down NHS management.

................Reform the Trusts to introduce some genuine local accountability.

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At a rate of 1.5 million a week roll out should be complete before the end of November.  
 

With the greatest of respect not sure where you think all these jabs can be done as most of the major hubs were shut down. The one big hub we have up here still is closed 1/2 the week due to ‘ lack of bookings ‘. The urgency of these boosters has been swept under the carpet by the government who of course as usual are now trying to put things right so they can score some points. I was against the boosters, but one look at the Israeli figures ( they used Pfizer ) and you realise the importance of this programme. 
 

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7 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

are these the guys who find Mrs Brown's boys hilarious as well? I genuinely don't encounter anyone as truly bonkers as these in real life, nor do I know anyone that likes Mrs Brown's boys but they walk among us...

Hi TJ

The vast majority of head teachers have been served with legal action by this group saying they will be taken to court. As I mentioned before they take our photos so that we can be held to account. If you want to meet these type of people in real life please feel free to work as part of the vaccine team in certain places ( which can’t be mentioned ).

I notice none of them were wearing masks, which is a requirement in an NHS setting, yet unlike Mr Gove there was not the knights in shining armour to come riding to the rescue. 

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7 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Excellent list lo which I would add:

.............Start paying doctors & nurses properly - even with huge increases in recruitment schemes and training new medical staff we are going to struggle to retain the number of doctors and nurses we still have in the NHS, never mind start filling the huge gaps without a significant uplift to current NHS salaries. 

..............Take social care seriously and put serious money into that (I know you also said that @sonyc but thought it needed its own bullet point) plus integrating it or at least aligning it to the NHS in a far more effectively than we have currently.

..............Remove the private sector from all involvement in the NHS - we have seen for many years the serious failures to deliver the services they are contracted to deliver, the huge costs involved for things that the NHS could deliver itself far more effectively and the hugely bureaucratic and costly contracting process that bogs down NHS management.

................Reform the Trusts to introduce some genuine local accountability.

Happy to go along with all of that CM. I had an opportunity only a few years ago to visit Leeds Hospitals and spend a good half day speaking to senior staff and looking at their processes, their challenges etc. A privileged thing really. Might be something you know about too. Such a massive organisation and with extremely dedicated and (at the time) motivated staff, despite huge demand issues and bed space etc. One thing that became obvious is that private IT suppliers were all over the system. Like many public organisations they bought into all the latest systems (designed of course...you've guessed it..to improve productivity) but those systems rarely interacted with one another. Such a huge organisation needs a better (arguably more centralised) system for departments to communicate with each other. Staff in one section had to use another IT system to pass on some information. Not ideal. Lots of physical movements required then to overcome.

I bet Leeds is like many others. So I would add information systems too to the list.

I fear that Alistair Campbell might be close to the mark though as he has hinted that perhaps, and he stressed the word 'perhaps' this present government is suited to the NHS struggling in some ways. There are serious people in that party that would jump at further privatisation and a US style health service. I recall RTB making an interesting case about private and public systems (e.g. housing) and of course we already have private health services. But this government may want something much more akin to breaking up the NHS - which if you think about it is quite a socialist set up and actually something very valued and cherished by many people. 

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6 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

so theoretically, if you could have either no more boosters this winter but every young people covered or every vulnerable person boosted but no more uptake of the vaccine this winter, which would be better?

Surely if all the vulnerable are boosted then covid is relatively harmless compared to currently and certainly pre vaccination but if the young took the jab in better numbers we'd have better chance of bringing case numbers down but still leave vulnerable people susceptible to a bad case of the virus... I just wonder which would be more of a priority to focus on, I would suggest the boosters would be but I dunno the numbers so it's just speculation.

I would definitely prioritise boosters over jabs for the healthy under 18s. 

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Well b back said:

At a rate of 1.5 million a week roll out should be complete before the end of November.  
 

With the greatest of respect not sure where you think all these jabs can be done as most of the major hubs were shut down. The one big hub we have up here still is closed 1/2 the week due to ‘ lack of bookings ‘. The urgency of these boosters has been swept under the carpet by the government who of course as usual are now trying to put things right so they can score some points. I was against the boosters, but one look at the Israeli figures ( they used Pfizer ) and you realise the importance of this programme. 
 

No idea where they can be done but as NHS England is delivering 200,000 a day it doesn't seem to have been a big issue so far.

You could argue that 500,000 a day is better but boosters are not as urgent as the initial jab and we might find that the real priority is the flu jab...

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