Jump to content
Fuzzar

Corona Virus main thread

Recommended Posts

24 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Yes several, and you have clearly implied it even if you've never said so explicitly - but like you I skip a lot of the posts of this thread nowadays (and have done for a good while).

It was interesting, and indeed genuinely informative at times, in the early days but IMO is rather past its sell by date now.

I was kind of implying exactly the opposite........."and there will be a large dose of political leaning in it" ......was my way (maybe didn't come across well) of suggesting that there would be something of a cover up to protect politicians.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Yes several, and you have clearly implied it even if you've never said so explicitly - but like you I skip a lot of the posts of this thread nowadays (and have done for a good while).

It was interesting, and indeed genuinely informative at times, in the early days but IMO is rather past its sell by date now.

Of course there are political dimensions to Covid and an enquiry should happen sooner rather than later. It's also certainly been a huge (and for some very useful) distraction to the ongoing Brexit fallout.

Putting aside any direct politics - my real issue is that the government fails to learn from past mistakes. I can accept in the very first 'wave' that they were unsure what to do, hesitant, dawdled too long and simply co*ked it up.  Similarly the ludicrous eat out to help out. An honourable thing to do would be to say we got that wrong - or could have done better with hindsight. Apology accepted. 

However, delayed necessary actions a second, third and fourth times (last autumn late missed/lockdowns, Christmas, delaying India 'Delta' exclusion for bald political reasons) is inexcusable and culpable costing likely tens of thousands of lives and untold misery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unsurprisingly a lot of defensive posting today.

ZOE in a hurry to catch up as well, down another 7%

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

National

24,470 - 65

rate of Decrease 30% (7 days)

Hard not to conclude that positives have already peaked, hospitals about now and deaths not far off.

Local

Norwich infection rate     306.6 to 315.7  slight uptick after 6 days of falls

(14 patients in N&N  not updated since 25th)

Vax

1st Dose      38,858               88.6% done                 Norwich numbers   75.8%

2nd Dose     212,159              72.5% done                                               56.4%

In Hospital (no weekend update)

29-07-2021             5,916
28-07-2021 6,048
27-07-2021 6,043
26-07-2021 5,952
25-07-2021 5,602
24-07-2021 5,336
   
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I keep an eye on the situation in France ... the proximity and inter-reaction (lorry drivers mainly atm) between us and the French being significant.

Their positive tests will soon surpass our own, if they haven't done so already.

Macron, who initially put the economy first, now faces massive demos against his vaccination policy. 100, 000 in Paris yesterday.

They are, at least, getting on with the vaccination  process, whilst having far too many deniers.

We cannot have a massive surge on our doorstep, so we must hope that that latest wave (Delta) peaks sooner rather than later.

 

Edited by BroadstairsR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

I was kind of implying exactly the opposite........."and there will be a large dose of political leaning in it" ......was my way (maybe didn't come across well) of suggesting that there would be something of a cover up to protect politicians.

Well certainly I interpreted what you said quite differently, perhaps because my impression of the posts of yours that I have read, almost entirely from last year rather than this, gave me the impression that you were very reluctant to discuss the 'political' aspects of the crisis (which in practice when we have a command and control style government running the fine detail of our lives is pretty much everything). And as I've already said several others have been extremely critical about the introduction of what they deem as 'political aspects of the crisis - a position which is utterly illogical and ludicrous when the politicians are running the show to an extent unparalleled since WWII. So it is something of a sore point as far as I'm concernedif

However I'm very happy to apologise if I misconstrued what you were trying to say, and of course you are right that there will be a cover up to protect the politicians - that is already ongoing and shows every sign of being a long term operation. It doesn't look as though we will ever get a genuine public enquiry and even if some limited exercise eventually gets underway it will be way too late to achieve what it could and should have done - preventing the politicians from making the same mistakes over and over again.

TBH I don't think an enquiry will have much impact anyway. We've seen in recent years how many people are happy to believe what they want to believe even when it is contradicted by clearly observable or known facts. Even a very thorough and well researched public enquiry wouldn't probably cut much ice with the many people who seem to prefer to take their news and opinions from social media, so personally although a proper enquiry is clearly the right thing to do I'm pretty resigned already to it being a complete waste of time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

 We've seen in recent years how many people are happy to believe what they want to believe even when it is contradicted by clearly observable or known facts.

Yes, I've noticed that too, some people have convinced themselves that we have the worst figures in the world and that opening up would result in 100k plus cases per day and a consequent Tsunami of deaths, so that no amount of evidence will persuade them to the contrary. Funny that 😉

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Yes, I've noticed that too, some people have convinced themselves that we have the worst figures in the world and that opening up would result in 100k plus cases per day and a consequent Tsunami of deaths, so that no amount of evidence will persuade them to the contrary. Funny that 😉

😂😂 Well at least we agree on people's ability to believe in whatever they want to believe, and I guess that sort of includes just making up the stuff they want to believe in as you have just done - so we're all good and of one mind on that point it seems 😂😂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

😂😂 Well at least we agree on people's ability to believe in whatever they want to believe, and I guess that sort of includes just making up the stuff they want to believe in as you have just done - so we're all good and of one mind on that point it seems 😂😂

😂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Well certainly I interpreted what you said quite differently, perhaps because my impression of the posts of yours that I have read, almost entirely from last year rather than this, gave me the impression that you were very reluctant to discuss the 'political' aspects of the crisis (which in practice when we have a command and control style government running the fine detail of our lives is pretty much everything). And as I've already said several others have been extremely critical about the introduction of what they deem as 'political aspects of the crisis - a position which is utterly illogical and ludicrous when the politicians are running the show to an extent unparalleled since WWII. So it is something of a sore point as far as I'm concernedif

However I'm very happy to apologise if I misconstrued what you were trying to say, and of course you are right that there will be a cover up to protect the politicians - that is already ongoing and shows every sign of being a long term operation. It doesn't look as though we will ever get a genuine public enquiry and even if some limited exercise eventually gets underway it will be way too late to achieve what it could and should have done - preventing the politicians from making the same mistakes over and over again.

TBH I don't think an enquiry will have much impact anyway. We've seen in recent years how many people are happy to believe what they want to believe even when it is contradicted by clearly observable or known facts. Even a very thorough and well researched public enquiry wouldn't probably cut much ice with the many people who seem to prefer to take their news and opinions from social media, so personally although a proper enquiry is clearly the right thing to do I'm pretty resigned already to it being a complete waste of time.

If I was reluctant to discuss the political aspects it was because I had, several times, said it was being handled very badly and there really didn't seem much else to say about it. The political aspects of the discussions become very polarised from both sides and, in my view, ended up going round in circles. I think just about the last political thing I said (and no way am I going back to check all this :)) is that I had expected the Tories to allow BJ to stay in power until it was over and then he would "resign" to spend more time with his family. That, of course, might still happen and would provide a bit of a clean break for them.

But, just as much as that, I was far more interested in discussing and learning about the virus and also the way other countries were choosing to handle it (particularly, at the time, Sweden). I enjoyed those discussions far more (and the Sarah thread was a prime example) as the political leanings of each individual were kept out of it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mark .Y. said:

If I was reluctant to discuss the political aspects it was because I had, several times, said it was being handled very badly and there really didn't seem much else to say about it. The political aspects of the discussions become very polarised from both sides and, in my view, ended up going round in circles. I think just about the last political thing I said (and no way am I going back to check all this :)) is that I had expected the Tories to allow BJ to stay in power until it was over and then he would "resign" to spend more time with his family. That, of course, might still happen and would provide a bit of a clean break for them.

But, just as much as that, I was far more interested in discussing and learning about the virus and also the way other countries were choosing to handle it (particularly, at the time, Sweden). I enjoyed those discussions far more (and the Sarah thread was a prime example) as the political leanings of each individual were kept out of it. 

Don't remember seeing that but have said pretty much the same myself on several occasions, and as you say it may still happen though I'm rather surprised it has taken so long. I guess the initial vaccine 'bounce ' in Johnson's ratings gave him a bit more time and of course the pandemic has so far largely masked the fallout from Johnson's awful Brexit deal.

So I suppose if I was a Tory aspiring to become Johnson's replacement as PM (who on earth is in that group!!??) then I would probably be pretty happy to have him staying around a bit longer to make sure that the baggage from both the pandemic shambles and the Brexit deal are hung very firmly round Johnson's neck before I took over.

Johnson's support both within his own MPs and the Tory Party itself seems to be shrinking pretty rapidly already but if we're not going to get a budget now until next Spring then just before or just after that might perhaps be the time?

Edited by Creative Midfielder
Missing (vital) word 😃

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Don't remember seeing that but have said pretty much the same myself on several occasions, and as you say it may still happen though I'm rather surprised it has taken so long. I guess the initial vaccine 'bounce ' in Johnson's ratings gave him a bit more time and of course the pandemic has so far largely masked the fallout from Johnson's awful Brexit deal.

So I suppose if I was a Tory aspiring to become Johnson's replacement as PM (who on earth is in that group!!??) then I would probably be pretty happy to have him staying around a bit longer to make sure that the baggage from both the pandemic shambles and the Brexit deal are hung very firmly round Johnson's neck before I took over.

Johnson's support both within his own MPs and the Tory Party itself seems to be shrinking pretty rapidly already but if we're not going to get a budget now until next Spring then just before or just after that might perhaps be the time?

I think they don't see a need to rush, which ties in with your statement in the second paragraph and seems likely to me.

Clean break/new start..............whatever you want to call it, it will be appealing to many in the Tory party.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mark .Y. said:

If I was reluctant to discuss the political aspects it was because I had, several times, said it was being handled very badly and there really didn't seem much else to say about it. The political aspects of the discussions become very polarised from both sides and, in my view, ended up going round in circles. I think just about the last political thing I said (and no way am I going back to check all this :)) is that I had expected the Tories to allow BJ to stay in power until it was over and then he would "resign" to spend more time with his family. That, of course, might still happen and would provide a bit of a clean break for them.

But, just as much as that, I was far more interested in discussing and learning about the virus and also the way other countries were choosing to handle it (particularly, at the time, Sweden). I enjoyed those discussions far more (and the Sarah thread was a prime example) as the political leanings of each individual were kept out of it. 

I get tired, (weather beaten  a better term perhaps?) with the politics of the pandemic but mainly that's because  my views are already known. In this regard, I'm sure posters have learnt to 'bake in' mine if I post  a view.  Occasionally will I stir, like an old monster from the deep, when some appalling politician appears to say something awful. Yet...I'm older and think most politicians are (to lesser or greater degrees), all out for themselves. This current shower would appear in the bottom quartile in that regard. ...then most posters on this forum, clear thinking ones on this, might even all agree?

After a while, politics-wise I even bore myself. I've nothing new to say and tend to "shut it" (never watched EastEnders but seen clips and someone would shout that I'm sure).

Now, I'm in to the figures and data and debate all around that. I listen to the libertarians on this thread and the cautious with equal respect. My view turned a couple of months ago because I felt the nature of both the pandemic (and my mindset) was indicating a change in nature. 

Being political for one paragraph...it doesn't mean the government gets off unchallenged because rarely does a day pass without some cabinet idiot making an idiotic pronouncement (which idiots tend to do...not necessarily on the pandemic). When Trump was around it was the same. Often I was appalled. Now he has gone we have a more adult administration in Biden. No more populist crap to listen to. It feels like he is just governing. Such a relief! I wish the UK was the same. BJ for me and the people he has put in his cabinet (except Sunak)  collectively, amount to our Trump 'moment'.

On the whole, some great studies are posted here and most help my understanding. Lots of opinions as I've said before, more eloquently articulated and expertly explained than I could ever hope to offer. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

To take the 'spin' out of it she actually 'champions' the strategy in 2020 to buy time to develop the vaccines for 2021 and indeed Delta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

To take the 'spin' out of it she actually 'champions' the strategy in 2020 to buy time to develop the vaccines for 2021 and indeed Delta.

what are you on about "spin"

To quote:

"No COVID was certainly the best strategy for saving lives, the economy and civil liberties and to bridge the time until a vaccine was available, as New Zealand and Australia, but also many Asian countries, have shown. But now we have a vaccine, several even, and now the question is how best to use them to get out of the pandemic. So, I have evolved my position based on safe and highly effective vaccines"

She has changed her position. Sure ZeroCovid had its moment before vaccines and UK in particular got a lot wrong in 2020 as just about everyone here will agree but it's unsustainable to continue that way and she recognises that unlike some of the fruit loops still championing it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

what are you on about "spin"

To quote:

"No COVID was certainly the best strategy for saving lives, the economy and civil liberties and to bridge the time until a vaccine was available, as New Zealand and Australia, but also many Asian countries, have shown. But now we have a vaccine, several even, and now the question is how best to use them to get out of the pandemic. So, I have evolved my position based on safe and highly effective vaccines"

She has changed her position. Sure ZeroCovid had its moment before vaccines and UK in particular got a lot wrong in 2020 as just about everyone here will agree but it's unsustainable to continue that way and she recognises that unlike some of the fruit loops still championing it.

We don't disagree TJ - your original one liner however rather implied she would of done things different in 2020. She wouldn't. Indeed she champions the approach of New Zealand and Australia etc.

Nobody (or very very few fruit cakes as you call them ) actually ever thought we could completely eradicate (as opposed to control) Covid once it had escaped and become a pandemic. 

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ZOE continues to drop like a stone.

20% down on the week

Edited by ricardo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

National

21,952 - 24

rate of Decrease 27% (7 days) expect to see this slowly flatten out

 

Local

Norwich infection rate     351.8  rising for second day after falling for six.

(14 patients in N&N  not updated since 27th)

Vax

1st Dose      21,226                88.6% done                 Norwich numbers   75.9%

2nd Dose     118,184              72.7% done                                               57%

First dose numbers certainly meeting resistance now.

 

In Hospital   ( numbers look like they have gone beyond peak )

30-07-2021                    5,943
29-07-2021 5,922
28-07-2021 6,052
27-07-2021 6,045
26-07-2021 5,953
25-07-2021 5,603
24-07-2021 5,336
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, ricardo said:

National

21,952 - 24

rate of Decrease 27% (7 days) expect to see this slowly flatten out

 

Local

Norwich infection rate     351.8  rising for second day after falling for six.

(14 patients in N&N  not updated since 27th)

Vax

1st Dose      21,226                88.6% done                 Norwich numbers   75.9%

2nd Dose     118,184              72.7% done                                               57%

First dose numbers certainly meeting resistance now.

 

In Hospital   ( numbers look like they have gone beyond peak )

30-07-2021                    5,943
29-07-2021 5,922
28-07-2021 6,052
27-07-2021 6,045
26-07-2021 5,953
25-07-2021 5,603
24-07-2021 5,336

All going in the right direction atm Ricky, a good sight for all. If my prediction of doom is found to be off target I will be the first to happily admit it, as like the  posters of Armageddon on other threads have hurried to confess they may have been wrong😁

But no, I will be honest, I’m sure others on other threads will do the same 😁

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Van wink said:

All going in the right direction atm Ricky, a good sight for all. If my prediction of doom is found to be off target I will be the first to happily admit it, as like the  posters of Armageddon on other threads have hurried to confess they may have been wrong😁

But no, I will be honest, I’m sure others on other threads will do the same 😁

VW no one knows for certain, but I’ve been more confident since my mate said we’re more likely to see more deaths this winter from what is being cast as a bad flu strain this winter. But it’s all good news.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Indy said:

VW no one knows for certain, but I’ve been more confident since my mate said we’re more likely to see more deaths this winter from what is being cast as a bad flu strain this winter. But it’s all good news.

There’s loads of variables Indy and often we focus on singular rather than multiple public health risks. The evidence atm suggest to me that the Government has probably called this right, we must bide our time as there are no definitives here but it seems to me that the decisions we have recently taken are right.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Indy said:

VW no one knows for certain, but I’ve been more confident since my mate said we’re more likely to see more deaths this winter from what is being cast as a bad flu strain this winter. But it’s all good news.

The claims made by many predicting 100k/200k positives per day due to opening up have not materialised so I think we can be fairly confident that the immediate peak has passed. I am very hopeful now that a combination of flu and Covid booster jabs in the early Autumn will allows us to retain our freedom from any further lockdowns.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Van wink said:

All going in the right direction atm Ricky, a good sight for all. If my prediction of doom is found to be off target I will be the first to happily admit it, as like the  posters of Armageddon on other threads have hurried to confess they may have been wrong😁

But no, I will be honest, I’m sure others on other threads will do the same 😁

I am sure we can find a new date for it. Billy is busy with the crystal ball as we speak.😁

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ricardo said:

I am sure we can find a new date for it. Billy is busy with the crystal ball as we speak.😁

I’m sure he is trawling Horse and Hound for suitable material. 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we need to remember that despite the vaccinations, the risk of death is still massively tilted towards the over 50's

Image

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I think we need to remember that despite the vaccinations, the risk of death is still massively tilted towards the over 50's

Image

Very true, but I do wonder how many of the over 70’s were pretty much on their last few weeks anyhow? It’s always with Covid! I’d like to see the deaths for June & July 2021 v the average pre Covid! That would make more sense as most who do die with Covid are generally in poor health!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...