Corona Virus main thread

[Mark .Y. 351]

On 24/06/2021 at 17:46, sonyc said:

Cheers WBB, it will be guesswork. Italian scientist/virologist on the radio was saying we've lived with polio and measles (highly contagious) but they have been managed out through vaccination. He was extremely confident about our vaccination scheme. It was good to hear.

Flu he stated was more tricky as it mutates a lot but doesn't have the deadly pathogen nature of C19.

He also was the one saying two weeks before our first wave..."do something now, lock up" as he knew what was to unfold. We (our government) of course were rather tin-eared.

But wasn't it proven (and my memory may be playing up here ) that everybody's arch-enemy Cummins wanted to lock down earlier but the scientists advised against it ???

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

2 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

But wasn't it proven (and my memory may be playing up here ) that everybody's arch-enemy Cummins wanted to lock down earlier but the scientists advised against it ???

What was confirmed is that the scientists wanted to lockdown earlier than Johnson - on each occasion actually but I assume you are referring to the first lockdown.

We also know that in his public comments this year that Cummings was very critical, quite rightly, of the lack of urgency (to put it politely) displayed by Johnson and Hancock in preparing for the onset of the virus but again this was criticism aimed at the government, not the scientists.

I think, despite his well-deserved reputation for deceitfulness, many of us were inclined to believe Cummings this time because what he said chimed so well both with what we know actually happened at the time and also what other insiders have also said. But in reality what we don't know is whether Cummings was telling the truth this year or trying to re-write history to make himself look better, which he also has form for. Almost certainly it is a mixture of both.

But IMO, for what its worth, it seems that most of what Cummings said about Johnson and Hancock was true, partly because he has provided elements of proof even if it only a small part of what he claims to have and secondly some of what he said has been backed up by others that don't have the same obvious axe to grind that he does. Stack that against Hancock's and Johnson's explanations for the same events that are so obviously false as to be risible and mostly contradict well documentted publically available evidence and, strange as it seems, Cummings does acquire a level of credibility we'd never have believed 18 months ago.

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

43 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

But wasn't it proven (and my memory may be playing up here ) that everybody's arch-enemy Cummins wanted to lock down earlier but the scientists advised against it ???

If I recall were back in the land of Cummings spin here. At the very start of the pandemic most scientists wished to lock down tough and early BUT there was some concern by other groups that the public couldn't and wouldn't be capable of a prolonged lock down... so an excuse to delay.

 

[Barbe bleu 815]

4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

If I recall were back in the land of Cummings spin here. At the very start of the pandemic most scientists wished to lock down tough and early BUT there was some concern by other groups that the public couldn't and wouldn't be capable of a prolonged lock down... so an excuse to delay.

 

Everyone knows that the SAGE minutes are published right?

You don't have to try to remember what was advised you can actually see it.

 

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

4 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Everyone knows that the SAGE minutes are published right?

You don't have to try to remember what was advised you can actually see it.

 

Yes. Look at what the different groups said. Thats where the ambiguity comes in.

[sonyc 5,492]

1 hour ago, Mark .Y. said:

But wasn't it proven (and my memory may be playing up here ) that everybody's arch-enemy Cummins wanted to lock down earlier but the scientists advised against it ???

I can't be sure that they didn't advise against it Mark. My recollection was of a herd immunity approach (that very first TV exchange) in those very early days which changed rapidly as the enormity of the situation emerged. The government always talked about being guided by the science. Scientists spoke of ministers making the decisions. I do however recalling many of us in this very thread stating we needed urgent action and urging measures right at the outset. Certainly I did (you'd need to go back to Feb 2020) plus Ricardo, many others. And I recall the desperate attempt by the Italian scientist to warn what would unfold. Still, Cheltenham, big football matches (Italian and Spanish teams and fans) etc all went ahead. It's all a matter of record.

The main point of my post were his positive comments on BBC radio 4 about vaccines. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing but this fella also was brave and outspoken before it broke so badly on our shores.

 

[First Wazzock 902]

[First Wazzock 902]

[First Wazzock 902]

Matt Hancock pictured leaving for work this morning seconds after his wife heard today's newspaper being posted through the letter box.

[Van wink 2,994]

11 hours ago, First Wazzock said:

Matt Hancock pictured leaving for work this morning seconds after his wife heard today's newspaper being posted through the letter box.

That looks like an accident waiting to happen…………oh hold on😁

[Van wink 2,994]

@Herman

Got it wrong Herman, it was just over 2 weeks and not 1 😁

 

[sonyc 5,492]

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

That looks like an accident waiting to happen…………oh hold on😁

I don't think he has much credibility left does he? Cannot see him toughing this out. If it was any other PM he would have either been dismissed or asked to resign. Very difficult for him to have authority. It may even be a Barnard Castle moment where a disapproving public simply ignores public health advice. Surely, he can give no more TV presentations can he? 

I'm a bit surprised though he hasn't simply thought this through and resigned. It would give him a chance to step back, sort his personal life out etc rather than try and juggle a big workload with the media interference (I'm sure it will run....plus there will be more pictures no doubt). It's just not a clever decision to stay put on this occasion. The jokes will run and run (like terms such as "straining every sinew" etc will simply be used by the press as double-entendres). 

Maybe he lasts a week. I'm not sure. It would have more comedy value were it not for the anger many people feel about following his own advice and even his public moral stance (Ferguson one example). I think respect for him may tumble amongst his own supporters.

I suppose also having photos like the one shown (clearly staged) show quite an ego. Who would want photos of themselves jumping over a fence? And then for it to be shared as a cabinet minister with your own backing? Who would want to post a video of yourself doing parkour? What kind of narcissist might you be? It's very curious to observe and it's more than a glimpse into the mindset of this man.

Edit:

To add to my various points, this tweeted comment really gets to the nub far better than my attempts. Spot on.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by sonyc

[ricardo 7,348]

He should have had the sense to tender his resignation straight away. I don't see him riding this one out.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

43 minutes ago, ricardo said:

He should have had the sense to tender his resignation straight away. I don't see him riding this one out.

Yes I think this one has gone over the line from issues which only get people excited in the Westminster bubble, to a clear breach of the rules by someone directly responsible for them which undermines his position.

 

it’s always a bit of a game nowadays for the media when something happens which could lead to a resignation, the story gathers momentum and it’s an easy story for them. So it’s understandable the government doesn’t just roll over and accept it, that would just encourage the media feeding frenzy next time. But I expect there will be a recognition he’s got to go soon.

[Van wink 2,994]

59 minutes ago, ricardo said:

He should have had the sense to tender his resignation straight away. I don't see him riding this one out.

What happens in the rest of the video?

Big mistake for him to stay, he was being kept afloat as the convenient sacrifice to the God of Covid, too late for that now. Appalling political misjudgement both by BJ and by Hancock for him to stay on, matched only by the misjudgement of Gina.

Seems to be a big question about who planted the camera in his office.......terrible indictment of security at the highest level?  Anybody got any suggestions? I'll kick it off with a man with poor eyesight.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Van wink

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

He should now go, but overall Hancock will always get massive credit from me for overruling the civil servants who were proposing a manufacturing contract with a US company, and instead getting a lot of vaccine produced in the UK.

 

With hindsight given the US embargo on vaccine exports (which I think they’ve only recently relaxed), if we’d gone with the original plan that our civil servants came up with, then it seems to me our vaccine programme would have ended up even behind the EU rather than one of the first in the World. And that’s a pretty key decision right now.

[Herman 9,717]

2 hours ago, Van wink said:

@Herman

Got it wrong Herman, it was just over 2 weeks and not 1 😁

 

What was? 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

6 hours ago, ricardo said:

He should have had the sense to tender his resignation straight away. I don't see him riding this one out.

have none of you learned anything about this corrupt government? It'll blow over and be forgotten about. Probably even help their majority. Our populace has the government it deserves sadly.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Tetteys Jig

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

Just now, Tetteys Jig said:

have none of you learned anything about this corruption government? It'll blow over and be forgotten about. Probably even help their majority. Our populace has the government it deserves sadly.

I was going to comment something similar but agree.  I actually didn't realize that in Johnson's Tory party (or the cesspit that it has now become), the lack of morals, ethics, honesty was actually an essential ingredient needed to progress up their greasy pole. Applies to the women too. I guess it stems from the top and reflects their supporters attitudes. All those blue brexity supporters must be very pleased with Hancock. Get in there....

Globally we're a laughing stock after Trump.

[CANARYKING 634]

With the low number of positives at the various test events, what is everybody’s take on August at CR ?

[ricardo 7,348]

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

What happens in the rest of the video?

Big mistake for him to stay, he was being kept afloat as the convenient sacrifice to the God of Covid, too late for that now. Appalling political misjudgement both by BJ and by Hancock for him to stay on, matched only by the misjudgement of Gina.

Seems to be a big question about who planted the camera in his office.......terrible indictment of security at the highest level?  Anybody got any suggestions? I'll kick it off with a man with poor eyesight.

Security guards obviously making a quick buck IMO.

You'd think he would have enough sense to know where the camera's are but caution goes to the wall when you let your 🐓 take the lead. Still, he isn't alone, polotics has a long history of it, especially the Tories. (Profumo, Parkinson etc) Mind you, Labour have had a few but theirs are mostly to do with money.

[ricardo 7,348]

3 minutes ago, CANARYKING said:

With the low number of positives at the various test events, what is everybody’s take on August at CR ?

Full house.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Full house.

 

Will you need proof of vaccination or will it be presumably, no restrictions at all by then?

[sonyc 5,492]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Security guards obviously making a quick buck IMO.

You'd think he would have enough sense to know where the camera's are but caution goes to the wall when you let your 🐓 take the lead. Still, he isn't alone, polotics has a long history of it, especially the Tories. (Profumo, Parkinson etc) Mind you, Labour have had a few but theirs are mostly to do with money.

It was reported that they know where the leak is from. Yet, an executive decision has been made not to pursue. There are concerns it would give the situation a whistleblowing angle. So much, like the Johnson decision saying that we move on and case closed.

A lot of Tory supporters are filling the airwaves this morning however. Lot of anger in Tunbridge Wells...

[ricardo 7,348]

National

18270 - 23

Local

slight increase to 34.9 per 100k

Vax

1st Dose   200,383

2nd Dose  158, 307

Hospital patients

1505 up 19 since yesterday.

 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

6 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

have none of you learned anything about this corrupt government? It'll blow over and be forgotten about. Probably even help their majority. Our populace has the government it deserves sadly.

oh... bye Matt!

[ricardo 7,348]

Should have done it earlier but better late than never.

[sonyc 5,492]

14 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Should have done it earlier but better late than never.

Fallen on his sword.

 

Well... that's one way of putting it.

[Herman 9,717]

Oh dear, how sad, nevermind.

Next up please.😂

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, sonyc said:

Fallen on his sword.

 

Well... that's one way of putting it.

I think Boris was holding the sword and Gove was pushing Hancock towards it.