Jump to content
Fuzzar

Corona Virus main thread

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

Well they can eat the 50 odd tonnes of food going to waste after G7.

How many free school dinners does that amount to I wonder?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, sonyc said:

Indeed. Spot on. And it's why this 'levelling up' will remain just a slogan. Have lived now over 40 years in one of those districts. In fact, I've personally been involved in public service jobs (with countless other colleagues) where we've tried to make a difference, both regionally and locally. And 40 years of attempts have failed let me tell you. My career has been a failure on that level (I ought to note I won't be too hard on myself because on a one to one or individual level  I dedicated myself to always do my best). But, the answer, the solution is a structural one. Only temporarily can change be made. It never lasts because of prevailing socio economic conditions. It's framed my whole world view. 

Now I know why the miners in Wales and Yorkshire fought and lost their 'war' (even though you could argue they gained communities and other important things in life). It's why Marmot is worth listening to and countless other anthropologists and longitudinal studies. Norfolk has its rougher areas but will always be more blessed than say metropolitan parts of West Yorkshire.

We need a massive campaign to find new purposes for places. We need not a conservative or a labour answer to all this inequality but a whole change in mindset about what we want a country to be like. Such health and economic differences and chasms in inequality do none of us any good in the long term. Everyone is affected (apart from the super rich). 

This bl00dy pandemic has exposed all this even more. But my idealism is for once deserting me because I don't yet see any change on the horizon. Indeed I see the opposite with this current administration.

One little light this morning is the by election result. That seems like the people have tactically said enough is enough. There IS a decent country there underneath this all. The volunteerism is another 'movement' that is a force for good. The NHS another (I had to finish on a positive).

Anyway I ought now to be having my morning coffee (probably tea actually) and relax a bit!

Great post and I agreed with virtually every word until you said 'There IS a decent country there underneath this all' - there I'm afraid we diverge sharply. There are certainly still decent people in the country, quite a lot of them, but collectively and speaking of the country as a whole I don't think you can realistically call us anything like decent.

Leaving aside that we have now on several occasions voted in totally amoral governments, culminating 18 months ago in the most venal government this country has ever had, what about the litany of truly indecent actions and policies that have been enacted in our name by 'our' government for the last 11 years - I won't bother to repeat the litany because we all know it so well, and whilst many of us haven't liked or supported it and may even have protested a bit about some of it, the fact remains that we have tolerated it and a sizeable minority have enthusiastically endorsed it.

I'm afraid that doesn't meet my definition of a civilised or decent country in the 21st century.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, horsefly said:

How many free school dinners does that amount to I wonder?

Can you stop derailing this thread with non covid issues. Plenty of other threads for you to post your nonsense. Keep this about Corona virus. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Great post and I agreed with virtually every word until you said 'There IS a decent country there underneath this all' - there I'm afraid we diverge sharply. There are certainly still decent people in the country, quite a lot of them, but collectively and speaking of the country as a whole I don't think you can realistically call us anything like decent.

Leaving aside that we have now on several occasions voted in totally amoral governments, culminating 18 months ago in the most venal government this country has ever had, what about the litany of truly indecent actions and policies that have been enacted in our name by 'our' government for the last 11 years - I won't bother to repeat the litany because we all know it so well, and whilst many of us haven't liked or supported it and may even have protested a bit about some of it, the fact remains that we have tolerated it and a sizeable minority have enthusiastically endorsed it.

I'm afraid that doesn't meet my definition of a civilised or decent country in the 21st century.

Much of that boils down to our antiquated electoral model that has little to do with democracy and everything to do with oligarchy. So much compromising on beliefs has to be done that you end up with the confused mess we have now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Can you stop derailing this thread with non covid issues. Plenty of other threads for you to post your nonsense. Keep this about Corona virus. 

Firstly, I was responding to someone else's post you thicko!

Secondly, I'm very happy to stick rigidly to the subject matter, when you apologise to the child rape victims of paedophile Jeffrey Epstein for calling them "well paid prostitutes" (on a Biden thread that had to be closed down because of your depraved comments) . Oh! and when you also stop the homophobic, misogynistic, anti-disability, and racist comments you make with no relevance to anything in the thread other than your own degenerate hatreds. Perhaps you would also  like to explain how your comments describing my recently deceased mother as carrying a "bag full of condoms" and as having "a penis" contributed the the subject matter on those threads? 

Edited by horsefly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

Much of that boils down to our antiquated electoral model that has little to do with democracy and everything to do with oligarchy. So much compromising on beliefs has to be done that you end up with the confused mess we have now.

Completely agree but as with the other problems I referred to - a lot of us don't like it but we tolerate it, and pretty passively IMO, so it ends up defining us as a country because the tone and the direction of a country, just as in most organisations, is set at the top.

We at the top have an amoral, incompetent and generally pretty unpleasent set of people in government, who as you slightly kindly put it have delivered a 'confused mess' - it is a complete/confused mess but it isn't entirely accidental, it is also cloaking something much nastier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Happy to, when you apologise to the child rape victims of Jeffrey Epstein for calling them "well paid prostitutes". Oh! and when you also stop the homophobic, misogynistic, anti-disability, and racist comments you make with no relevance to anything other than your own degenerate hatreds.

I come to the Corona virus thread for news and to listen to serious discussions, plenty of other threads for your guff. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Rock The Boat said:

I come to the Corona virus thread for news and to listen to serious discussions, plenty of other threads for your guff. 

You never contribute anything but your disgusting prejudices and your hideous apologising for a convicted paedophile. If you think I'm going to let you get away with that think again. The fact you have never apologised for your degenerate comments says everything anyone needs to know about what sort of morally depraved individual you are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So “the science” today showing one vaccine decreases chances of hospitalisation by 75 per cent, regardless of variant.

Running out of things to keep waiting three weeks for (every three weeks) aren’t we? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent news


AstraZeneca has claimed victory in its legal case against the EU after a court in Brussels found that the bloc should not be given priority over other countries for jabs.
The judge at the Brussels court ordered that AstraZeneca deliver 80 million doses of its vaccine by the end of September, well below the 300 million that the European Commission had been seeking.
It dismissed EU claims that it should have exclusivity or right of priority over all other countries that AstraZeneca had struck deals with.
AstraZeneca said it had already delivered 70 million doses of its jabs and was set to "substantially exceed" the 80.2 million doses it was being ordered to.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Great post and I agreed with virtually every word until you said 'There IS a decent country there underneath this all' - there I'm afraid we diverge sharply. There are certainly still decent people in the country, quite a lot of them, but collectively and speaking of the country as a whole I don't think you can realistically call us anything like decent.

Leaving aside that we have now on several occasions voted in totally amoral governments, culminating 18 months ago in the most venal government this country has ever had, what about the litany of truly indecent actions and policies that have been enacted in our name by 'our' government for the last 11 years - I won't bother to repeat the litany because we all know it so well, and whilst many of us haven't liked or supported it and may even have protested a bit about some of it, the fact remains that we have tolerated it and a sizeable minority have enthusiastically endorsed it.

I'm afraid that doesn't meet my definition of a civilised or decent country in the 21st century.

My post was about failure to progress since the mid C 19, not like you to turn it into a rant against the current Tory Government, a view which actually I have sympathy with, but for your postings it’s like a record stuck in a single groove.

The issue is about successive governments of all political persuasions failing to deal with health inequalities, a much bigger issue than partisan political point scoring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted at 15:1315:13

England's highest case rates among 16-24s

0eac2832-5825-4622-a05b-6fa5d611a855.jpg

Robert Cuffe

BBC head of statistics

Rates of coronavirus infection in England are highest in the North West, the Office for National Statistics estimates.

About 0.55% of people are testing positive there, with the next closest Yorkshire & the Humber at 0.25%.

No other English region has rates above 0.2%.

There are possible signs of a decrease in the percentage of children testing positive in school years 7 to 11.

The highest rates are in the group between school year 12 (16-year-olds) and those aged 24, which sees 0.5% testing positive, and among 25 to 34-year-olds - at 0.4%.

About 0.2% of younger children would test positive and about 0.1% of older adults would test positive, the ONS says.

 

I think there are very easy explanations for a pause or lull like this - School 1/2 term holidays just passed!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Van wink said:

My post was about failure to progress since the mid C 19, not like you to turn it into a rant against the current Tory Government, a view which actually I have sympathy with, but for your postings it’s like a record stuck in a single groove.

The issue is about successive governments of all political persuasions failing to deal with health inequalities, a much bigger issue than partisan political point scoring.

My post  reply to yours was that its not about the Tories or Labour (or anyone else as such) but a national purpose  needed in sorting out our structural problems. Something I feel quite strongly about (as you'll have gathered).

That said, this government with talk of 'levelling up' is quite a deceit. A deceit that needs to be highlighted.

The pandemic has shone quite a light onto the issue and Whitty's comments have some depth to them. Will anyone listen though. 

Edited by sonyc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, sonyc said:

 

The pandemic has shone quite a light onto the issue and Whitty's comments have some depth to them. Will anyone listen though. 

I hope they do sonyc, public health has been a "Cinderella" service certainly throughout my career and for eons before. The problem is it is rarely seen as a high on the political agenda as there are no quick fixes ( votes ) in the short term. It takes something like this to focus the mind, as in John Snow turning off the cholera,  my fear is it will all be forgotten as quickly as it arose.

Edited by Van wink

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Aggy said:

So “the science” today showing one vaccine decreases chances of hospitalisation by 75 per cent, regardless of variant.

Running out of things to keep waiting three weeks for (every three weeks) aren’t we? 

I did the figures in detail the other day, worked out at very much 96%+ for two shot vaccinations, but this is brilliant news. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

Excellent news


AstraZeneca has claimed victory in its legal case against the EU after a court in Brussels found that the bloc should not be given priority over other countries for jabs.
The judge at the Brussels court ordered that AstraZeneca deliver 80 million doses of its vaccine by the end of September, well below the 300 million that the European Commission had been seeking.
It dismissed EU claims that it should have exclusivity or right of priority over all other countries that AstraZeneca had struck deals with.
AstraZeneca said it had already delivered 70 million doses of its jabs and was set to "substantially exceed" the 80.2 million doses it was being ordered to.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-astrazeneca-and-eu-both-claim-win-as-court-rules-on-vaccine-supply-row-12335852

AstraZeneca and the EU have both claimed victory in a court ruling over the supply of COVID-19 vaccines.

https://www.euronews.com/2021/06/18/astrazeneca-ordered-to-deliver-millions-of-covid-19-vaccine-doses-to-eu-by-june

The Commission said in a statement on Friday that the Court of First Instance of Brussels has ordered "AstraZeneca to urgently deliver 50 million doses of vaccine by 27 September 2021" according to a binding schedule and that failure to do so would result in the Anglo-Swedish company paying "a penalty of €10 per dose not delivered."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-astrazeneca-and-eu-both-claim-win-as-court-rules-on-vaccine-supply-row-12335852

AstraZeneca and the EU have both claimed victory in a court ruling over the supply of COVID-19 vaccines.

https://www.euronews.com/2021/06/18/astrazeneca-ordered-to-deliver-millions-of-covid-19-vaccine-doses-to-eu-by-june

The Commission said in a statement on Friday that the Court of First Instance of Brussels has ordered "AstraZeneca to urgently deliver 50 million doses of vaccine by 27 September 2021" according to a binding schedule and that failure to do so would result in the Anglo-Swedish company paying "a penalty of €10 per dose not delivered."

 

Both sides claim victory, will have to see the judgement and reasons

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m a little lost by this, I didn’t think AZ was being used that much in the EU?

There’s no winners really, both need to work together to get things done for the good of the people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

AZ share price rock steady.

A good indicator.

 

(Analysis from someone who can read French)

A very quick read seems to indicate that AZN won the big victory (re best reasonable efforts) and the EU won a consolation prize (re court-ordered deliveries from now to September).

Edited by ricardo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-astrazeneca-and-eu-both-claim-win-as-court-rules-on-vaccine-supply-row-12335852

AstraZeneca and the EU have both claimed victory in a court ruling over the supply of COVID-19 vaccines.

https://www.euronews.com/2021/06/18/astrazeneca-ordered-to-deliver-millions-of-covid-19-vaccine-doses-to-eu-by-june

The Commission said in a statement on Friday that the Court of First Instance of Brussels has ordered "AstraZeneca to urgently deliver 50 million doses of vaccine by 27 September 2021" according to a binding schedule and that failure to do so would result in the Anglo-Swedish company paying "a penalty of €10 per dose not delivered."

 

Pitiful really, Big Pharma fighting Rich Countries whilst the poorest of the world getting overlooked. 

As a species, we are not good at ensuring mutual survival.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Both sides claim victory, will have to see the judgement and reasons

Hi VW

Those will be going to ‘ less rich nations ‘. The EU have purchased and will help manufacture 1.8 billion Pfizer doses and currently administer 4.5 million doses a day. The US have also agreed to immediately release 80 million Oxford and 20 million Pfizer to similar nations by June 30th. Below is an extract from the agreement 20/5/2021.

Today, the European Commission signed a third contract with the pharmaceutical companies BioNTech and Pfizer. It reserves an additional 1.8 billion doses on behalf of all EU Member States, between end 2021 to 2023. It will allow for the purchase of 900 million doses of the current vaccine and of a vaccine adapted to variants, with the option to purchase an additional 900 million doses.

The contract requires that the vaccine production is based in the EU and that essential components are sourced from the EU. It also stipulates that, from the start of the supply in 2022, the delivery to the EU is guaranteed. Thanks to the well-established cooperation with the companies under the current contracts and arrangements put in place, timely deliveries of the doses are ensured. The possibility for Member States to resell or donate doses to countries in need outside the EU or through the COVAX Facility has been reinforced, contributing to a global and fair access to the vaccine across the world. This new contract will strengthen the EU vaccine production capacity thus allowing to serve other markets across the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Daz Sparks said:

Pitiful really, Big Pharma fighting Rich Countries whilst the poorest of the world getting overlooked. 

As a species, we are not good at ensuring mutual survival.

Indeed the US could be manufacturing 100 million doses per month of Oxford, but until this week wouldn’t start getting it into the phials. Had the US, U.K., India and to a lesser degree EU, kept to their June 2020 statements then an estimated 1.2 billion additional people would have been vaccinated throughout the world by now. In the US case they were never even likely to to approve AZ but would not allow manufactured vaccine to be exported.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Well b back said:

Hi VW

Those will be going to ‘ less rich nations ‘. The EU have purchased and will help manufacture 1.8 billion Pfizer doses and currently administer 4.5 million doses a day. The US have also agreed to immediately release 80 million Oxford and 20 million Pfizer to similar nations by June 30th. Below is an extract from the agreement 20/5/2021.

Today, the European Commission signed a third contract with the pharmaceutical companies BioNTech and Pfizer. It reserves an additional 1.8 billion doses on behalf of all EU Member States, between end 2021 to 2023. It will allow for the purchase of 900 million doses of the current vaccine and of a vaccine adapted to variants, with the option to purchase an additional 900 million doses.

The contract requires that the vaccine production is based in the EU and that essential components are sourced from the EU. It also stipulates that, from the start of the supply in 2022, the delivery to the EU is guaranteed. Thanks to the well-established cooperation with the companies under the current contracts and arrangements put in place, timely deliveries of the doses are ensured. The possibility for Member States to resell or donate doses to countries in need outside the EU or through the COVAX Facility has been reinforced, contributing to a global and fair access to the vaccine across the world. This new contract will strengthen the EU vaccine production capacity thus allowing to serve other markets across the world.

Good intentions, but it is now 6 months since the first vaccine in the world was administered and the vaccination rate in poorer countries is almost non existent. 

I am quoting the following line from ourworldindata.org

Only 0.8% of people in low-income countries have received at least one dose.

We really ought to be concentrating as hard on rectifying this as we have on the home roll out.

Not a dig at you WBB, it's just that we have proved we can move mountains when necessary, it would be great to the same urgency applied to the rest of world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Daz Sparks said:

Good intentions, but it is now 6 months since the first vaccine in the world was administered and the vaccination rate in poorer countries is almost non existent. 

I am quoting the following line from ourworldindata.org

Only 0.8% of people in low-income countries have received at least one dose.

We really ought to be concentrating as hard on rectifying this as we have on the home roll out.

Not a dig at you WBB, it's just that we have proved we can move mountains when necessary, it would be great to the same urgency applied to the rest of world.

Hi Daz

I am agreeing, see my response to your post. All the nationalism just means 1.2 billion doses that could have been manufactured and distributed haven’t been. That particular post was meant to indicate just like the US the EU will have Oxford doses that they are very unlikely to use. Hopefully however they will immediately offer those to Countries who do need them, at least we live in hope.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Hopefully however they will immediately offer those to Countries who do need them, at least we live in hope

Indeed, until we learn to work together and for the greater good, we are decreasing our chances of controlling the virus and by definition controlling mutations. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Van wink said:

My post was about failure to progress since the mid C 19, not like you to turn it into a rant against the current Tory Government, a view which actually I have sympathy with, but for your postings it’s like a record stuck in a single groove.

The issue is about successive governments of all political persuasions failing to deal with health inequalities, a much bigger issue than partisan political point scoring.

Very true but my 'rant', which seems to me a complete misrespresentation of what I actually said, wasn't even a response to your post so I wasn't trying to 'turn' it anything per se - although now you mention it I would certainly dispute the notion that we've failed to progress since the mid C 19.

I'm sure there was a good reason why we spent such an inordinate proportion of our A level history periods studying English 19 C social history instead of something interesting (well that's how it seemed to me at the time anyway). Add to that actually experiencing a fair chunk of 20th century English social history and there is little doubt in my mind that we have made progress albeit progress that has been largely stalled for many years and for the last 10 years has gone into reverse. A reverse which has been picking up speed with a series of failed Tory govts/PMs and has now gone into overdrive with the toxic combination of the pandemic response and Brexit.

So sorry if my posts appear to be stuck in a single groove but if we talking about about current affairs (I have managed the odd upbeat post about football 😀) then that might perhaps be because we as country are stuck in a single groove, and not in a remotely good or accidental way.

Which actually seems to be what you saying as well but you don't like me complaining about it or blaming the people who are currently responsible for our current problems. Of course we've had governments before that have failed badly, and in fact I've posted several times about how I think our dysfunctional electoral system has been responsible for a very long-standing record of generally poor governance in the UK but no British government has ever failed so badly as the series of Tory governments we've endured since 2010, and specifically and worst of all the one we have right now.

So I'm afraid you are not going get any apology from me for constantly criticising this bunch of corrupt incompetents unless\until you can show me where my criticisms are unfounded, and since you say you have some sympathy for my view I'm intrigued to know what your approach would be to restoring some sanity and decency to this country and how we are ever going to make any progress without first removing Johnson and his whole unsavoury crew?

 

Edited by Creative Midfielder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Very true but my 'rant', which seems to me a complete misrespresentation of what I actually said, wasn't even a response to your post so I wasn't trying to 'turn' it anything per se - although now you mention it I would certainly dispute the notion that we've failed to progress since the mid C 19.

I'm sure there was a good reason why we spent such an inordinate proportion of our A level history periods studying English 19 C social history instead of something interesting (well that's how it seemed to me at the time anyway). Add to that actually experiencing a fair chunk of 20th century English social history and there is little doubt in my mind that we have made progress albeit progress that has been largely stalled for many years and for the last 10 years has gone into reverse. A reverse which has been picking up speed with a series of failed Tory govts/PMs and has now gone into overdrive with the toxic combination of the pandemic response and Brexit.

So sorry if my posts appear to be stuck in a single groove but if we talking about about current affairs (I have managed the odd upbeat post about football 😀) then that might perhaps be because we as country are stuck in a single groove, and not in a remotely good or accidental way.

Which actually seems to be what you saying as well but you don't like me complaining about it or blaming the people who are currently responsible for our current problems. Of course we've had governments before that have failed badly, and in fact I've posted several times about how I think our dysfunctional electoral system has been responsible for a very long-standing record of generally poor governance in the UK but no British government has ever failed so badly as the series of Tory governments we've endured since 2010, and specifically and worst of all the one we have right now.

So I'm afraid you are not going get any apology from me for constantly criticising this bunch of corrupt incompetents unless\until you can show me where my criticisms are unfounded, and since you say you have some sympathy for my view I'm intrigued to know what your approach would be to restoring some sanity and decency to this country and how we are ever going to make any progress without first removing Johnson and his whole unsavoury crew?

 

Trouble is, the majority of voters in this country don't seem to want change. When they are offered a group of politicians who want to alter things, such as Corbyn, they don't vote for them.

They would rather it seems, want to return to waving the damn flag and pretending the UK is still as important as it ever was. So lets spend a fortune on nuclear weapons, frivolous capital expenditure such as Cross Rail and HS2 ( for the home counties).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...