Corona Virus main thread

[Well b back 3,201]

1 hour ago, CANARYKING said:

So would swap a free for all for five days at Christmas for twenty five days of severe lockdown in January?

Logic tells you, if you wish to do this you and any member of that group should quarantine for 14 days prior. That of course will not be possible for most.

[ricardo 7,384]

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[ricardo 7,384]

 

Yesterdays European.

Italy         34283 - 753

France    28383 - 425

Spain      11064 - 351

Germany  20801 - 244

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

[Van wink 2,994]

45 minutes ago, ricardo said:

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Local picture for Broadland from Zoe

 

[Essjayess 307]

Reported  global daily deaths on GMT timeline was  another record high yesterday of 10,970, beating the previous high of a few days earler of 10,175.

Just shows that after a year since the virus started to be recognised in China its still on the increase globally, but considering how new the virus was, how very infectious it is and how very nasty to, plus with no vaccine, its not a human extinction virus, but has caused  not just  big health  issues, but economical to, with as yet no true global answer as to how to knock it on its head.

[Teemu’s right foot 53]

Sage advisors used Wikipedia for decisions on lockdown....

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1362145/boris-johnson-lockdown-coronavirus-Wikipedia-data-sage/amp

[ricardo 7,384]

 

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,187]

What's the chances I'll be allowed to visit my family for the first time this year at Christmas? No need for the 14 day quarantine anymore, all depends on the local meet up rules 

🤞

[Teemu’s right foot 53]

Pretty much what we knew all along and what our own science advisors were telling us daily in March and April. Very obvious masks were a political tool used to give a false sense of safety to get people out spending money

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Teemu’s right foot

[Well b back 3,201]

51 minutes ago, Teemu’s right foot said:

Pretty much what we knew all along and what our own science advisors were telling us daily in March and April. Very obvious masks were a political tool used to give a false sense of safety to get people out spending money

 

I wish the vaccine trials could get positives in the placebo groups as quick as that. This I believe he says was in the summer, when there was very little transmission. Roughly 4800 reported in of which 3.9% in just one month caught Covid. So in one month roughly 190 people caught Covid out of 4800. 
Oxford have done some very good studies, would love to see some more as the WHO are saying that wearing masks, accompanied with social distancing and hygiene in Europe and USA would be the way to stop future lock downs.

I am no expert but this guys figures don’t seem right based on the fact that Oxford can’t get 100 people infected from 45,000 over a rolling 6 months, when a lot of those are frontline doctors and nurses and a huge chunk in Brazil.

[Teemu’s right foot 53]

29 minutes ago, Well b back said:

I wish the vaccine trials could get positives in the placebo groups as quick as that. This I believe he says was in the summer, when there was very little transmission. Roughly 4800 reported in of which 3.9% in just one month caught Covid. So in one month roughly 190 people caught Covid out of 4800. 
Oxford have done some very good studies, would love to see some more as the WHO are saying that wearing masks, accompanied with social distancing and hygiene in Europe and USA would be the way to stop future lock downs.

I am no expert but this guys figures don’t seem right based on the fact that Oxford can’t get 100 people infected from 45,000 over a rolling 6 months, when a lot of those are frontline doctors and nurses and a huge chunk in Brazil.

Watch the video below the story about the man who has asthma and was arrested for not wearing a mask. It is said within the clip that the who only changed their guidance on the wearing of masks through political pressure. No science supports the wearing of masks and our own advisors were telling us that only a few months ago

[Well b back 3,201]

8 minutes ago, Teemu’s right foot said:

Watch the video below the story about the man who has asthma and was arrested for not wearing a mask. It is said within the clip that the who only changed their guidance on the wearing of masks through political pressure. No science supports the wearing of masks and our own advisors were telling us that only a few months ago

Just interested in the data from the other one. 190 infections in 1 month from 4800 people just does not seem right ?

 

[sonyc 5,511]

Another study is attached above here. Click and there are about 20 numbered points.

I found this particular 'Swiss Cheese' diagram below very interesting (click to enlarge). It shows masks are one of many measures.

Edited November 19, 2020 by sonyc

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Surely we are way past the mask argument. 

Can't we just do as we are told.

I have to isolate again at the moment and I haven't set foot out of the door at the expense of Mrs KG doing things I should be doing. Whether it is necessary at the moment is not important. I believe I am helping if ifome think otherwise.other

Idiots like Farage and Piers Corbyn want locking up for civil disobedience.

[Van wink 2,994]

It’s not been suggested that face coverings prevent the wearer from contracting Covid, they are intended to reduce spread. If you want self protection you need something like an N95 mask but even that is of little use unless you have good hygienic practice when you use it, taking it off, disposal etc.

[Barbe bleu 823]

Masks work or they don't but its  it exactly a hardship to have one on is it?

I was anti mask at the start as I thought it would give a false sense of security and looked daft but with sensible use (dont smear it all over your face) i dont really have an issue now.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Barbe bleu

[Well b back 3,201]

8 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Another study is attached above here. Click and there are about 20 numbered points.

I found this particular 'Swiss Cheese' diagram below very interesting (click to enlarge). It shows masks are one of many measures.

Cheers Sonyc

Thats how I understood it that masks are 1 part of our defence and the better you make the defence the more protected you are. The better the mask as well the better that extra protection. As I understand it also adds to peoples defences that you are near doubly so if they are wearing a mask. I thought it was pretty much a done thing to wear one now.

[sonyc 5,511]

I beleive an older study reported a 9% influence and that was all. However 9% or about 1 in 10 for me is a decent percentage and reason to wear regardless, alongside other responsible behaviours.

[Well b back 3,201]

21 minutes ago, sonyc said:

 

[Well b back 3,201]

This was what the WHO said in the last couple of days

Hans Kluge, the World Health Organization's Europe director, has said health systems on the continent are being overwhelmed, with one person dying every 17 seconds because of the pandemic. More than 29,000 deaths were recorded in the past week alone.

"Europe is once again the epicentre of the pandemic, together with the United States. There is light at the end of the tunnel but it will be a tough six months," he told reporters on Thursday.

He also called for universal mask wearing, saying: 

"Mask use is by no means a panacea, and needs to be done in combination with other measures. However, if mask use reached 95%, lockdowns would not be needed."

[Teemu’s right foot 53]

4 minutes ago, Well b back said:

This was what the WHO said in the last couple of days

Hans Kluge, the World Health Organization's Europe director, has said health systems on the continent are being overwhelmed, with one person dying every 17 seconds because of the pandemic. More than 29,000 deaths were recorded in the past week alone.

"Europe is once again the epicentre of the pandemic, together with the United States. There is light at the end of the tunnel but it will be a tough six months," he told reporters on Thursday.

He also called for universal mask wearing, saying: 

"Mask use is by no means a panacea, and needs to be done in combination with other measures. However, if mask use reached 95%, lockdowns would not be needed."

U-turns seem the order of the day for this pandemic 

"There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly," Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO health emergencies program, said at a media briefing in Geneva, Switzerland, on Monday.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-masks-recommendation-trnd/index.html

Edited November 19, 2020 by Teemu’s right foot

[Well b back 3,201]

2 hours ago, Teemu’s right foot said:

U-turns seem the order of the day for this pandemic 

"There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly," Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO health emergencies program, said at a media briefing in Geneva, Switzerland, on Monday.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-masks-recommendation-trnd/index.html

That was in March.

 

[Teemu’s right foot 53]

5 hours ago, Well b back said:

That was in March.

 

Yes but the science behind it is the same now as it was in March. The only thing that’s changed is the narrative and political pressure 

[Herman 9,754]

No, I think it is that most sensible people realise that they can help stop the spread of a deadly disease. They won't stop it on their own but as a small part of our armoury against this thing. 

[Teemu’s right foot 53]

37 minutes ago, Herman said:

No, I think it is that most sensible people realise that they can help stop the spread of a deadly disease. They won't stop it on their own but as a small part of our armoury against this thing. 

Which goes against the findings of any study’s ever done on the wearing of masks. If they worked then why are there all these cases as the overwhelming majority are wearing them? They are clearly as useful as a chocolate teapot. Then there is the huge environmental cost to having billions of these being disposed of. Still if it gets people out from behind their sofa it must be worth it....

“There have only been three 'real life' studies comparing mask-wearers to non-mask-wearers — one in Guinea-Bissau, one in India and the new Denmark study. All have shown masks to have no benefit in preventing the disease.”

But the experts added: 'Now we have properly rigorous scientific research we can rely on, the evidence shows wearing masks in the community does not significantly reduce the rates of infection.'  

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8966883/Masks-DONT-stop-spread-Covid-experts-criticise-troubling-lack-evidence.html

Edited November 20, 2020 by Teemu’s right foot

[Herman 9,754]

What part of "a small part of our armoury" don't you get? 

[Van wink 2,994]

3 minutes ago, Herman said:

What part of "a small part of our armoury" don't you get? 

It’s difficult to understand if you don’t want to.

[ricardo 7,384]

Masks probably have little effect but if its only 1% its worth complying with the rules. I can't  see that it is something to get worked up about.

[Van wink 2,994]

8 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Masks probably have little effect but if its only 1% its worth complying with the rules. I can't  see that it is something to get worked up about.

Funny how the arguments go round and round 😄

[paul moy 235]

On 15/11/2020 at 11:19, Creative Midfielder said:

Don't think there is any doubt that the Swedes got it wrong but I think some of the criticisms are overly harsh, partly because they have already admitted themselves, and apologised that they got some of it wrong (albeit without entirely giving up on their herd immunity strategy).

I also think, though I could be wrong, that their adoption of the herd immunity strategy, though unwise, wasn't through arrogance or lack of thought and although they got it wrong and had far more deaths than they should have done, they did manage to limit the spread probably more than anyone would have expected without lockdown - their real problem was that the herd immunity was a mirage and didn't build in remotely the way that they were hoping for.

Nevertheless I would suggest that it was a thought out plan which didn't work unlike the UK's initial herd immunity approach which was just wishful thinking - perhaps from that perspective we should be more appreciative of Johnson's ability to perform total and frequent u-turns  😂

 

I have said for a long time that they had probably got it wrong but still many people in authority were quoting them as a perfect  example to follow despite the figures and disparity in demographics with densely populated countries such as the UK. I have a Norwegian friend so have followed their covid  strategy also with great interest and being very similar to Sweden demographically highlights them to actually be potentially a lockdown success story. There is no perfect solution but following commonsense rather than blind science is the best way imo. The UK has recently followed commonsense by at least closing bars and going by hospital figures of admissions and deaths rather than relying on flawed 'positive' tests. The current situation in the UK is clearly not a full lockdown but a compromise which is surely the best way to proceed pending the vaccine release.

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by paul moy