Corona Virus main thread

[Surfer 1,547]

So what reagents and tests are South Korea using? They have been testing 100,000 per day....

... and their outbreak seems under control.

 

Should we buy some tests from them / license their test and manufacture it here? 

[ricardo 7,339]

3 minutes ago, Bill said:

As I previously stated the relaxation will begin far sooner than most thought. Much as how cannabis was de-criminalised so with activity become less stringent.

Smoke a joint in your house and you will not be bothered. Walk up to a plod in the street and blow it into his/her face and you will most likely be nicked.

Folk just need to exercise caution/common sense. Wandering about in hgroups  is almost a direct flaunting of advice and could lead to others ignoring the advice to avoid risking spreading the virus. As sai I spoke with a couple of coppers yesterday eve when they were sat in the van. Happy to make that my only venture, shopping #/outdoor exercise, observe Aldi's regulations do what millions of others are doingsit it out.

It is all about the medical services being given the chance to get control of dealing with this. It won't stop the deaths but it woll slow down the rate so it's a case of whether my visit to aunt flo is more important or the NHS (and other services) not being hindered where possible.

Well just to take the Contrarian view I expect it to tighten further in the short term.

Relaxation is some way off.

[ricardo 7,339]

2 minutes ago, Surfer said:

So what reagents and tests are South Korea using? They have been testing 100,000 per day....

... and their outbreak seems under control.

 

Should we buy some tests from them / license their test and manufacture it here? 

I doubt anybody on this forum has the expertise to comment either way. We can only hope those who possess that expertise will use it to our advantage.

[Essjayess 307]

Here are some official  stats regarding testing...Testingss done in last 24 hrs...10,412.

Testing capacity for inpatients in England currently stands at 12,799 daily.

Recoveries....Public Health England have now take down the Recoveries stats, so there is currently no Recovery  number available.

[Van wink 2,994]

3 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I doubt anybody on this forum has the expertise to comment either way. We can only hope those who possess that expertise will use it to our advantage.

We may need to be a bit more flexible and pragmatic, I suspect the CMO will be leaned on, I recall Matt Hancock waxing lyrical about the antibody tests but CMO being far more circumspect, its the difference between a political imperative and maintaining the very highest standard. Something will have to give.

[ricardo 7,339]

12 minutes ago, Essjayess said:

Here are some official  stats regarding testing...Testingss done in last 24 hrs...10,412.

Testing capacity for inpatients in England currently stands at 12,799 daily.

Recoveries....Public Health England have now take down the Recoveries stats, so there is currently no Recovery  number available.

oh dear, amazing how every other country in the world seems to manage to put up a number. Same with the number in critical care, why the secrecy?

[Bill 1,788]

29 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Well just to take the Contrarian view I expect it to tighten further in the short term.

Relaxation is some way off.

Then you have not been out and about much.

The relaxation will not come from any announcement at this stage. That would cause too big a rise in numbers goung out - just because they can

We already have food shops open, along with buses, food processing factories/distribution all working.

Any further announcement of tightening of the rules would be counter productive. The police do not have the resoiurces to enforce that, and the blunt reality is that the current enforcement is being done by the populace not the police - that would require some form of martial law.

The relaxation will come about by allowing people to use their common sense and only resorting to judicial methods where all else has failed.

It is much like an overheated car radiator. If some pressure is not eased then the whole thing will blow - much as if that pressure is eased to quickly.

[T 190]

Some people think it is anti British to point out PPE and testing is schambolic in the UK. What is really anti Britsh people is to have a schambolic PPE and testing. Some people clearly care more about nationalism than lives and jobs. 

[Aggy 750]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

No I don't have a source for it! I would have thought that it was pretty obvious to most people that it does not take six months to obtain PPE! 

I meant source for your accusation that I seem “ok with it”.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Government hoping for 25K a day. That means 8 weeks to test the NHS staff alone.

Business Secretary sent out today to cover up the inadequacies.

[Mello Yello 2,277]

11 minutes ago, T said:

Some people think it is anti British to point out PPE and testing is schambolic in the UK. What is really anti Britsh people is to have a schambolic PPE and testing. Some people clearly care more about nationalism than lives and jobs. 

Schambolic.......?

 "Schmoke an' a pancake?"......

[ricardo 7,339]

56 minutes ago, Bill said:

Then you have not been out and about much.

 

12 weeks house arrest Bill.

[Bill 1,788]

4 minutes ago, Aggy said:

I meant source for your accusation that I seem “ok with it”.

you're hoping

he will spin it so you are 'wrong' .... somehow

whereas the claim that you are 'ok with it' was simply a lie

[Bill 1,788]

3 minutes ago, ricardo said:

12 weeks house arrest Bill.

yes, my apologies as I should have been aware of how serious this is for yourself and others in a similar health condition

that transcends any banter or comment

so please don't regard anything from me as being directed personally to you or others 😕

[Yellow Fever 3,736]

As an aside but related I went into the office today.. post etc but noticeably more people wandering around than before even though it was cool and cloudy.

[Aggy 750]

16 minutes ago, Bill said:

you're hoping

he will spin it so you are 'wrong' .... somehow

whereas the claim that you are 'ok with it' was simply a lie

Yes to be fair I don’t know why I replied - took the bait!

[Van wink 2,994]

14 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

As an aside but related I went into the office today.. post etc but noticeably more people wandering around than before even though it was cool and cloudy.

The transport graph suggested that today. Bit worrying.

[Aggy 750]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

Then you have not been out and about much.

The relaxation will not come from any announcement at this stage. That would cause too big a rise in numbers goung out - just because they can

We already have food shops open, along with buses, food processing factories/distribution all working.

Any further announcement of tightening of the rules would be counter productive. The police do not have the resoiurces to enforce that, and the blunt reality is that the current enforcement is being done by the populace not the police - that would require some form of martial law.

The relaxation will come about by allowing people to use their common sense and only resorting to judicial methods where all else has failed.

It is much like an overheated car radiator. If some pressure is not eased then the whole thing will blow - much as if that pressure is eased to quickly.

Agreed highly unlikely that it will become more restricted. Legally it is already pretty much as restricted as you can get. The only way it could become more restricted is, as you say, if we start having troops or far more police on the street.

The real issue isn’t about relaxing the ‘social’ elements - I imagine people will be allowed to visit families etc. in more relaxed fashion in the not too distant future if they use good judgment and isolate if they have symptoms etc. If your grandparents don’t want to see you for their own safety until a vaccine is out then so be it. 

The real headache is how/when we get people back into the workforce on a more ‘formal’ large scale basis. My guess would be timeframes for this will tie in with how long the government’s ‘furlough scheme’ can last. That was initially announced to be three months backdated from March, so would lapse at the end of May. That’s still two months away. My guess would be that restrictions will have been significantly reduced by then at the latest. Possibly extended by another month to allow for various ‘phased returns’ of certain people (if the government can afford another month).


 

[JF 694]

18 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

As an aside but related I went into the office today.. post etc but noticeably more people wandering around than before even though it was cool and cloudy.

Sunday will be the big test. Sunny and up to 20 degrees forecast 

[Bill 1,788]

26 minutes ago, T said:

Some people think it is anti British to point out PPE and testing is schambolic in the UK. What is really anti Britsh people is to have a schambolic PPE and testing. Some people clearly care more about nationalism than lives and jobs. 

that has been the undercurrent with many of the posts on here

any comment pointing out failures is supposedly merely some form of 'tribalism' - the idea there being that the comments are not 'vaakid' as they are merely point scoring

whereas the reality is that criticism is coming from almost all quarters, listen here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-52125349/dr-phillip-lee-uk-coronavirus-reaction-beggars-belief

or the sorry mess we are still in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-52125349/dr-phillip-lee-uk-coronavirus-reaction-beggars-belief

caused by

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/01/absolutely-wrong-how-uk-coronavirus-test-strategy-unravelled

but, bleat the bigots, it is not Johnson's fault, he has always supported the NHS......................... really ?

"Johnson, in a 2002 speech to the House of Commons, calling for a breakup of the "monopolistic" NHS.

"I think it's all very well to treat the NHS as a religion, but it's legitimate for some of us to point out that, insofar as it is a religion, it is letting down its adherents very, very badly," he said."

 

"

[Bill 1,788]

15 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Yes to be fair I don’t know why I replied - took the bait!

or highlighted another example of this behaviour

it's also worth noting how it is the same few names

however much their appearances on here come and go

[Yellow Fever 3,736]

16 minutes ago, JF said:

Sunday will be the big test. Sunny and up to 20 degrees forecast 

 

20 minutes ago, Van wink said:

The transport graph suggested that today. Bit worrying.

Yes. Although I'm walking to or from the office in a beeline you can easily tell that most are not out for any specific reason but just to get out of the house. My impression anyway.

Most or many are couples etc or a pair of friends.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Yellow Fever

[vos 155]

3 hours ago, Crafty Canary said:

I would be amazed when this is all over if there isn’t an increase in income tax rates of 1 or 2% ring fenced for the NHS. 

CC I fear it will be a lot more than this. With a lot of big business closed the amount of corporation tax, VAT and personal income tax etc collected will be massively reduced. Its a very difficult juggling act but there will have to be some easing on businesses re-openings as soon as feasible. I have every sympathy for the guy who has spent 30 odd years building up a garden centre etc and see it all go in a short space of time. Supermarkets are open, some sensible flexibility is required.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,777]

3 hours ago, Aggy said:

Do we (perhaps @Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man) know how well the lockdown has been observed in Italy? The impression I get is that it is probably not being observed as well as it now is in the Uk. If that’s the case, then presumably we’d ‘flatten out’ a bit quicker?

My instinct tells me the lockdowns have been observed equally well. Both countries weren't keen at the start and a lot of people weren't respecting it as well as they should have, but I think both countries fell into line after a week or so of it. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

[Bill 1,788]

13 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Agreed highly unlikely that it will become more restricted. Legally it is already pretty much as restricted as you can get. The only way it could become more restricted is, as you say, if we start having troops or far more police on the street.

The real issue isn’t about relaxing the ‘social’ elements - I imagine people will be allowed to visit families etc. in more relaxed fashion in the not too distant future if they use good judgment and isolate if they have symptoms etc. If your grandparents don’t want to see you for their own safety until a vaccine is out then so be it. 

The real headache is how/when we get people back into the workforce on a more ‘formal’ large scale basis. My guess would be timeframes for this will tie in with how long the government’s ‘furlough scheme’ can last. That was initially announced to be three months backdated from March, so would lapse at the end of May. That’s still two months away. My guess would be that restrictions will have been significantly reduced by then at the latest. Possibly extended by another month to allow for various ‘phased returns’ of certain people (if the government can afford another month).
 

I doubt the affordability is that of money, as it is the government who 'prints it'. 

The cost will be one of social cohesion. Will younger members of society feel the need to stay indoors if they see the virus as one not too great a risk to their group ? Any confrontation there would test the 'policing by consent'  method we have now.  My thought is that relaxation will come about by less rigorous enforecment rather than by decree. Police don't chase cyclists without lights but maybe use resources towards speeding and drink driving - the latter being seen as the greater threat.

As to work what has been shown is that much work can be done from home, and I would suggest that this might be the impetus towards people being able to work from home, and/or not to have to travel long journeys to commute. One of the offshoots or rising oil prices was to see more resources devoted to renewable energy.

Maybe I need to speak to a doctor about an ingrowing toenail. That can be done with any doctor in the UK via a screen. No need for so many costly surgeries etc. What;s that ? How do you go about a consultation about your piles ?  Struggle to find an online docor I would think et's look at broadband being seen as a utility whereby there can be an increase in it's use for 'face to face' meetings via screens.

There will be lessons learned and hopefully a focus more on building for the future, not clinging to the past. Where we work towards bettering the lot of us all, not a select few in the hope that a few crumbs might fall from their table.....if we are humble enough.

[Van wink 2,994]

Coronavirus: Six-week-old baby dies of Covid-19, Connecticut governor says

'We believe this is one of the youngest lives lost anywhere due to complications relating to Covid-19,' Governor Ned Lamont says

[ricardo 7,339]

10 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

My instinct tells me the lockdowns have been observed equally well. Both countries weren't keen at the start and a lot of people weren't respecting it as well as they should have, but I think both countries fell into line after a week or so of it. 

A mounting death count has a way of doing that.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,777]

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

A mounting death count has a way of doing that.

Yep, I think it's a combination of that and the fact they've realised that the better they observe the rules, the sooner we can get back to normality- in theory, at least.

[Surfer 1,547]

2 hours ago, Van wink said:

Coronavirus: Six-week-old baby dies of Covid-19, Connecticut governor says

'We believe this is one of the youngest lives lost anywhere due to complications relating to Covid-19,' Governor Ned Lamont says

Very sad, and hopefully atypical. It's important that we focus on the big picture and not the unusual and sensational. 

[Van wink 2,994]

5 hours ago, Surfer said:

Very sad, and hopefully atypical. It's important that we focus on the big picture and not the unusual and sensational. 

That’s certainly true, in a pandemic there will  be cases that appear outside the norm which are rarely repeated, hopefully this is one of those, but of course knowledge and precautions is the best way to prevent further tragedies, ignorance won’t stop it happening again. 
In the early stages of this I seem to recall there was a reported case in China where the virus had crossed the placenta, that may have been a false positive as thankfully there has been little mention of it since. 
I do know of a number of pregnant ladies locally who are self isolating and being assisted by our support group, obviously very sensible precautions.