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You'll have to excuse my cynicism but these are the same people and publications, Nelson,Delingpole, Spectator, Pearson, Telegraph etc. that sold the country brexit.

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22 minutes ago, Teemu’s right foot said:

Been tweeted by an mp so I’d imagine the article factually holds weight 

 

Let me explain.

In January 2020 the beds were close on 100% occupied. In February the NHS were put on red alert. In March they received an email warning of impending disaster. The government then put their plan into operation. All people not critically ill or deemed medically fit were to be discharged as stated on the official site this resulted in 

In Q1 2020/21, the bed occupancy rate decreased sharply to 64%, after trusts were asked to discharge all inpatients who were medically fit to leave to free up capacity during the Covid-19 pandemic.


The buildup of Covid was then a gradual thing so yes of course there were empty beds but those empty beds were people missing who were less seriously ill. Cancer and heart wards carried on, but by May a lot of that had been switched to private hospitals that were classed as Covid secure. As soon as Covid was restricted they started catching back up on the emergencies, followed by hip replacements. Even at this point they had to keep Covid secure wards even though they were not occupied by any patients. 
At present all wards are still open. To all intents and purposes care homes provided the extra beds, with people being released without tests and we know how well that wen !

She is not contesting there were empty beds, but she is questioning why this is not explained.

 

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25 minutes ago, Teemu’s right foot said:

So opinion based on factually accurate numbers then 

Based on complete misinterpretation. 

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3 minutes ago, Herman said:

You'll have to excuse my cynicism but these are the same people and publications, Nelson,Delingpole, Spectator, Pearson, Telegraph etc. that sold the country brexit.

I was going to make similar comment. Same sort of dubious youtube spun self-publicist misleading already debunked vs scientific consensus. Remind anybody of 2016? Sure you can put forward alternative theories but they need proper peer review and real data.

There are endless conspiracy or pet theories. Nobody is immune to them.

Anybody already bought Cummins book on fat and diets, or seen the list of Levitt's predictions on Covid that where erh wrong ? All a bit embaressing.

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8 minutes ago, Herman said:

You'll have to excuse my cynicism but these are the same people and publications, Nelson,Delingpole, Spectator, Pearson, Telegraph etc. that sold the country brexit.

If they believe what they are saying, don’t see them queuing up to help. They forget to say as well with isolation and the lack of staff the staff numbers are the problem, otherwise a couple of Nightingales would be open now.

See the anti vaxers are everywhere today over social media. 

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9 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Let me explain.

In January 2020 the beds were close on 100% occupied. In February the NHS were put on red alert. In March they received an email warning of impending disaster. The government then put their plan into operation. All people not critically ill or deemed medically fit were to be discharged as stated on the official site this resulted in 

In Q1 2020/21, the bed occupancy rate decreased sharply to 64%, after trusts were asked to discharge all inpatients who were medically fit to leave to free up capacity during the Covid-19 pandemic.


The buildup of Covid was then a gradual thing so yes of course there were empty beds but those empty beds were people missing who were less seriously ill. Cancer and heart wards carried on, but by May a lot of that had been switched to private hospitals that were classed as Covid secure. As soon as Covid was restricted they started catching back up on the emergencies, followed by hip replacements. Even at this point they had to keep Covid secure wards even though they were not occupied by any patients. 
At present all wards are still open. To all intents and purposes care homes provided the extra beds, with people being released without tests and we know how well that wen !

She is not contesting there were empty beds, but she is questioning why this is not explained.

 

Well said WBB.

I really do get fed up with the spin as opposed to honest facts warts and all.

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4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I was going to make similar comment. Same sort of dubious youtube spun self-publicist misleading already debunked vs scientific consensus. Remind anybody of 2016? Sure you can put forward alternative theories but they need proper peer review and real data.

There are endless conspiracy or pet theories. Nobody is immune to them.

Anybody already bought Cummins book on fat and diets, or seen the list of Levitt's predictions on Covid that where erh wrong ? All a bit embaressing.

I wonder if these same people were on their doorsteps clapping the NHS. 
I do appreciate there are 2 sides to all this and we all have our own views, but to take factually correct data and then put on a spin like is not good.

I hope facebook / twitter ect are going to delete some of these totally incorrect posts about the impending vaccines.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Well b back said:

I wonder if these same people were on their doorsteps clapping the NHS. 
I do appreciate there are 2 sides to all this and we all have our own views, but to take factually correct data and then put on a spin like is not good.

I hope facebook / twitter ect are going to delete some of these totally incorrect posts about the impending vaccines.

 

 

 

It is entirely correct to question the data and science, but one must also abide by the science fact based rules. 

I could make up any old theory .. did it correspond with a meteor shower. Fits the facts. Was it little green men ? Perhaps it was a dastardly global  conspiracy. Perhaps if you buy my book you'll all understand😉

I prefer grounded simple explanations.

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So we have facts, I was directed towards the official and most up to date NHS figures. Worth noting the figures for cancer and referrals have not been met for many years. It is also worth noting that one alarming figure is the referrals made from screening. Doctors referrals and first treatments were clearly catching up. These figures will of course back everyone’s thoughts in different ways. Teemu will pick things out and say there you are screening referrals dropped by 82 %, Yellow and I will point to the numbers in September for A and E getting back to normal. 
https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/news-item/nhs-performance-summary-august-september-2020

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13 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

It is entirely correct to question the data and science, but one must also abide by the science fact based rules. 

I could make up any old theory .. did it correspond with a meteor shower. Fits the facts. Was it little green men ? Perhaps it was a dastardly global  conspiracy. Perhaps if you buy my book you'll all understand😉

I prefer grounded simple explanations.

 

IMG_20201025_220213.jpg

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10 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

It is entirely correct to question the data and science, but one must also abide by the science fact based rules. 

I could make up any old theory .. did it correspond with a meteor shower. Fits the facts. Was it little green men ? Perhaps it was a dastardly global  conspiracy. Perhaps if you buy my book you'll all understand😉

I prefer grounded simple explanations.

I have just put the official NHS figures for September. People have been dieing unfortunately for many years due to underfunding. Unfortunately again Covid has made this worse and highlighted it. Pity we didn’t have the same fight against the system 2 years ago, I never realised. There has always been empty beds as the below actual stats show ( again from the official figures ). 

Between Q1 2010/11 and Q4 2019/20, the total number of NHS hospital beds decreased by 11% from 144,455 to 128,935. But the number of occupied beds only decreased by 9%, from 122,551 to 111,324. Therefore, the bed occupancy rate increased slightly from 85% in Q1 2010/11 to 86% in Q4 2019/20.

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2 minutes ago, Well b back said:

I have just put the official NHS figures for September. People have been dieing unfortunately for many years due to underfunding. Unfortunately again Covid has made this worse and highlighted it. Pity we didn’t have the same fight against the system 2 years ago, I never realised. There has always been empty beds as the below actual stats show ( again from the official figures ). 

Between Q1 2010/11 and Q4 2019/20, the total number of NHS hospital beds decreased by 11% from 144,455 to 128,935. But the number of occupied beds only decreased by 9%, from 122,551 to 111,324. Therefore, the bed occupancy rate increased slightly from 85% in Q1 2010/11 to 86% in Q4 2019/20.

Confounded by the lack of integration between the care and health system. Beds blocked very often, people not being able to be moved into homes etc. Then Covid ripped the whole thing (a mess) wide open. Very sadly.

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19 minutes ago, sonyc said:

 

IMG_20201025_220213.jpg

Guys I'm going to say goodnight.

The above reminds me astrology is still quite popular. Some swear by it and you can always find a match in it to your own circumstances. We find the answers we want in the patterns of the stars in the sky.

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Nobel prize winning Professor Michael levit from Stanford

Is he conspiracy theorist?

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Maybe these three are just plain old conspiracy theorists

I could go with many more top epidemiologists from Oxford, Yale Stanford ect but you probably wouldn't bother listening.

You just follow your great leader, for now you are firmly on his boat.

All hail

Alexander Boris de pfeffel Johnson

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bagster said:

Nobel prize winning Professor Michael levit from Stanford

Is he conspiracy theorist?

If it doesn’t fit the narrative it’s not a relevant opinion. I’ve posted a podcast that’s over an hour long by an expert as an alternative opinion and not a single comment on it. As I’ve said some people have become so engulfed in this virus and the fear of it that they can’t see anything other. Let’s just burn the house down to catch the rat instead....

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It's all about trust. We've had 4 plus years of these people feeding us misinformation. Why should we now listen to them during this time of crisis? 

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7 minutes ago, Herman said:

It's all about trust. We've had 4 plus years of these people feeding us misinformation. Why should we now listen to them during this time of crisis? 

Four plus years of expert epidemiologists opinions on a virus!!?? 

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12 minutes ago, Herman said:

It's all about trust. We've had 4 plus years of these people feeding us misinformation. Why should we now listen to them during this time of crisis? 

I’ll post it again to see if anyone can bring themselves to listen to an alternative expert opinion 

 

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What I am saying is don't trust people like Delingpole. He does the same with climate science and did the same with brexit. He deliberately muddies the water. 

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4 minutes ago, Teemu’s right foot said:

Four plus years of expert epidemiologists opinions on a virus!!?? 

They are VASTLY outnumbered by experts who disagree with them. And interestingly those countries, who have followed their advice and rapidly applied the appropriate supressing methods, have all gained much greater control over the virus (see China, see South Korea, see Japan, see Germany etc. etc.). They have far fewer deaths than the UK and far less socio-economic impact. The problem is not with the advice of the overwhelming majority of experts, it's with the shambolic decision making of political buffoons (see USA, see UK, see Brazil etc. etc.).

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38 minutes ago, Herman said:

What I am saying is don't trust people like Delingpole. He does the same with climate science and did the same with brexit. He deliberately muddies the water. 

Herman, this isn't a remain v brexit, it's not left versus right

This is about a corporate takeover of democracy

2008 financial crisis was at the time the biggest fraud in history. The people were left with the bill and no one went to jail

Dupont poisoned the entire world with Teflon, they even put it in cigarettes and gave it to their employees, killing them. No one went to jail

Volkswagen cheated their emissions and again tested them on employees and again just fines, no one went to jail.

The Iraq war was decided by 12 men in a locked room , who were their advisors? They certainly didn't care about a million man march.

Watch this, it's a few minutes of your time

 

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

It's all about trust. We've had 4 plus years of these people feeding us misinformation. Why should we now listen to them during this time of crisis? 

Experts ay, who needs 'em 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Oh deary me Herman, where have I heard that before?

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1 hour ago, horsefly said:

They are VASTLY outnumbered by experts who disagree with them. And interestingly those countries, who have followed their advice and rapidly applied the appropriate supressing methods, have all gained much greater control over the virus (see China, see South Korea, see Japan, see Germany etc. etc.). They have far fewer deaths than the UK and far less socio-economic impact. The problem is not with the advice of the overwhelming majority of experts, it's with the shambolic decision making of political buffoons (see USA, see UK, see Brazil etc. etc.).

If only we had a government like China, only 3 deaths per million people.

Or better still, North Korea, nobody dies at all. 🤣🤣🤣

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3 hours ago, Bagster said:

Nobel prize winning Professor Michael levit from Stanford

Is he conspiracy theorist?

 

There are lots of rebuttals of his views - which boil down to basically saying it is already a 'seasonal' virus already and would of gone away completely of its own accord last summer (lockdown has almost zero effect)

However - If you must go down that particular rabbit hole - 

I don't vouch for this but if you insist - has lots of links.

https://liorpachter.wordpress.com/2020/09/21/the-lethal-nonsense-of-michael-levitt/

His (shifting) predictions are all rather embarrassing.

Also added quite a good article in Nature which gives a balanced view on seasonality issues (ergo it will very likely become seasonal but not yet - only when we have very largely all got some immune responses - vaccine or by direct exposure. Until then wave after wave.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18150-z

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12 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Experts ay, who needs 'em 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Oh deary me Herman, where have I heard that before?

From yourself? 

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Ok let's try another angle, this is doctor talking at the European parliament.

It's not about covid but it shows the power of lobbying and the priorities of big pharma

Big pharma and big food killing for profit

 

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14 hours ago, Well b back said:

I agree absolutely and she has used it to get people behind her agenda, however ( at least up until now ) the people of Scotland have listened to her, unlike the people of England with Boris.

Would it work if she took over from Boris and ran the U.K. - probably not but in her own country she seems to be listened to. The discussions on who got it right will only be answered with history.

I'm not sure that is all correct Wbb.

I suspect that the Jocks haven't listened to Sturgeon any more than the English have listened to Johnson - hence the continuing problems up there, as here.

The YouGov website gives Johnson an approval rating of 40% and Sturgeon an approval rating of 37%, although a different chart on the same website gives Johnon 35% - whatever, there isn't much in it at all.

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