Corona Virus main thread

[benchwarmer 624]

And now . . . the government is reimposing 20% VAT on face masks and other PPE from 1st November.  Words fail me.

 

[Well b back 3,180]

4 hours ago, Teemu’s right foot said:

Given the high number of false positives how are we to know that many of the deaths that are being put down on the figures now, are not deaths from covid but other causes who have previously tested as a false positive? 

Now I say this with the greatest of respect that you are playing this down. You are saying there is not really 20,000 new infections per day but they are lower, yet Zoe and ONS actually say there are between 40 and 70,000 cases a day. If what you are saying is correct on the latest numbers the r is around 3 and based on the 2 week lag, then taken off 20 % which I think is what you are doing means there are about 1200 going to hospital out of every around 11000 that catch the virus. Your argument with respect is that this disease is far less than being made out. I accept that but your argument is shooting yourself in the foot. According to your figures about 10 % of all people catching it go to hospital, so based on your argument I have to conclude this is a far worse disease than I thought it was. I understand going to hospital is about 2.5 % - 3 % not the 10% you are telling us. What makes your views even more concerning is two weeks ago this virus was not into the older age groups so it means our hospitals based on your thoughts will soon be very full and people will be left to die.
Rather than our deaths really being much lower I would argue they are much higher. For a person below 65 It currently takes ( according to the experts ) 9 days on average to get to hospital. It then takes another 5 days on average to get to ICU. The average as I understand it then that you are in ICU before dieing is 21 days. That makes 35 days. If that is correct you don’t even get counted on the figures. 

Our ONS figures also show at the minute the lowest deaths for years, however the figures you were supporting yesterday which had Covid in 19th, 2 weeks later not only have Covid in 1st position but that number is now higher than the next 5 combined.
I have no problem with arguments and counter arguments as none of us will be right. Aggy, I and Yellow Fever have discussions and we don’t always agree with each other but we argue our sides but respect each other’s views. Ricardo’s figures are fact, and although the ONS and ZOE are estimates the government use ZOE and the ONS so although Ricardo argues his figures and others argue ZOE and ONS they are figures from official figures and not pulled from conspiracies on social media.

If you want a sobering thought before you reply read the article below. Doctors and Nurses throwing up before they go in as they are scared of dieing, they aren’t 82 why would they be scared of dieing ?. They haven’t had breaks as they all went to cancer wards and the like to catch up with other illnesses. I assume those based in Manchester would be horrified that you claim the hospitals there are empty.

Lots of doctors and nurses throwing the towel in so it’s staffing that’s going to overwhelm them. I have to be honest and say I am terrified of the virus so I wouldn’t be brave enough to go there, but you could volunteer ?. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-54623919
 

[Well b back 3,180]

1 hour ago, Teemu’s right foot said:

September saw the lowest amount of deaths in any month in Sweden’s history. And 2020 is the third least deadly year in Sweden’s history. These are not figures you’d expect from a deadly pandemic sweeping the world that we’re destroying everything over

 

As did ours ?

[Tetteys Jig 830]

So this whole "Long Covid" thing that supposedly 5% of cases will have. Why is it generalised into 1 entity? To one person, "Long Covid" could mean a mild headache for a few weeks, to others, it could mean significant damage to vital organs and a lifetime of suffering... Itd be good to know more about the nuances of it all rather than just a basic general classification of it that is just designed to scare people into compliance or something. Have we not learnt that making things irrational on either side of the coin is completely unhelpful in our fight against the pandemic?

[Well b back 3,180]

2 hours ago, Teemu’s right foot said:

 

We all accept this but what’s the answer ? Cancer wards are still fully operational, if you ring your doctor and say you have a lump they check it out. I had a blood test last week to update my diabetes so if I had a non essential blood test I am sure if they thought you had something serious you would get one. Are the facts not really ( smear tests aside ) that people are making the choice not to go to the doctors as they are to scared ?

If it’s because they are to scared ( I was terrified ) is that not as much down to arguments of both extremes? ie my arguments scare people as we think it kills you, your arguments that say it’s a load of old tosh make people like me terrified as you are telling people to ignore things and to not take vaccines when they are available. 
We are all to blame I suggest.

[Well b back 3,180]

2 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

So this whole "Long Covid" thing that supposedly 5% of cases will have. Why is it generalised into 1 entity? To one person, "Long Covid" could mean a mild headache for a few weeks, to others, it could mean significant damage to vital organs and a lifetime of suffering... Itd be good to know more about the nuances of it all rather than just a basic general classification of it that is just designed to scare people into compliance or something. Have we not learnt that making things irrational on either side of the coin is completely unhelpful in our fight against the pandemic?

I don’t think they know themselves yet TJ. As usual we are blinded by the various arguments some reports are saying lots of people that catch it are getting kidney, liver, heart disease others are saying they aren’t. This is a new disease and however unlikely nobody knows what if anything will happen to the body in a couple of years.

Good news about the US restarting Oxford by the way. Reckon Trump must be fuming that the front runner was slowed down by the FDA.

[Well b back 3,180]

Some of you maybe interested in the new laws allowing emergency uses of vaccines and treatments ( won’t just apply to Covid ) and the numbers of people that will be able to administer them ( again not just Covid ).

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-measures-to-support-roll-out-of-vaccines-in-the-uk

[KiwiScot 1,436]

Just seen this lawyer I know post on instagram that they have drove 3hrs to Newcastle from Glasgow to have a drink. Sickens you.

[horsefly 4,273]

This is truly shocking. The Tories have seemingly adopted the propaganda tactics of Joseph Goebbels.  The Government is demanding that any financial support for the arts is conditional on publicly publishing praise for the Johnson regime.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/oct/18/want-an-arts-bailout-then-youd-better-praise-sunak-co

"Arts organisations and businesses desperate for financial survival have been told that rescue grants are tied to them publicly praising a government campaign."

"Recipients in both rounds were instructed to “to welcome this funding on your social media accounts (using #HereforCulture), on your website (using the ‘Here for Culture’ logo) and in your newsletters”. The directive, first reported by the trade magazine ArtsProfessional, added that: “In receiving this funding, you are agreeing to acknowledge this funding publicly by crediting the government’s Culture Recovery Fund. This is a challenging time for the cultural sector, and the ‘Here for Culture’ campaign aims to build a positive movement uniting the members of the public and people across the sector to voice their support for culture. Alongside this, we require you to alert your local media outlets of the news."

 

Bye-bye freedom of speech.

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by horsefly

[Teemu’s right foot 53]

11 hours ago, Well b back said:

Now I say this with the greatest of respect that you are playing this down. You are saying there is not really 20,000 new infections per day but they are lower, yet Zoe and ONS actually say there are between 40 and 70,000 cases a day. If what you are saying is correct on the latest numbers the r is around 3 and based on the 2 week lag, then taken off 20 % which I think is what you are doing means there are about 1200 going to hospital out of every around 11000 that catch the virus. Your argument with respect is that this disease is far less than being made out. I accept that but your argument is shooting yourself in the foot. According to your figures about 10 % of all people catching it go to hospital, so based on your argument I have to conclude this is a far worse disease than I thought it was. I understand going to hospital is about 2.5 % - 3 % not the 10% you are telling us. What makes your views even more concerning is two weeks ago this virus was not into the older age groups so it means our hospitals based on your thoughts will soon be very full and people will be left to die.
Rather than our deaths really being much lower I would argue they are much higher. For a person below 65 It currently takes ( according to the experts ) 9 days on average to get to hospital. It then takes another 5 days on average to get to ICU. The average as I understand it then that you are in ICU before dieing is 21 days. That makes 35 days. If that is correct you don’t even get counted on the figures. 

Our ONS figures also show at the minute the lowest deaths for years, however the figures you were supporting yesterday which had Covid in 19th, 2 weeks later not only have Covid in 1st position but that number is now higher than the next 5 combined.
I have no problem with arguments and counter arguments as none of us will be right. Aggy, I and Yellow Fever have discussions and we don’t always agree with each other but we argue our sides but respect each other’s views. Ricardo’s figures are fact, and although the ONS and ZOE are estimates the government use ZOE and the ONS so although Ricardo argues his figures and others argue ZOE and ONS they are figures from official figures and not pulled from conspiracies on social media.

If you want a sobering thought before you reply read the article below. Doctors and Nurses throwing up before they go in as they are scared of dieing, they aren’t 82 why would they be scared of dieing ?. They haven’t had breaks as they all went to cancer wards and the like to catch up with other illnesses. I assume those based in Manchester would be horrified that you claim the hospitals there are empty.

Lots of doctors and nurses throwing the towel in so it’s staffing that’s going to overwhelm them. I have to be honest and say I am terrified of the virus so I wouldn’t be brave enough to go there, but you could volunteer ?. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-54623919
 

I was more questioning the testing of the already sick and dying in hospitals and care homes and not the amount of cases in the population. The more tests that are carried out then the more false positives that will be recorded. If there is a high number of infections in the community that are showing no symptoms and not getting tested then that isn’t altering the official figures. If though, we are getting high numbers of false positives from the already very sick and dying then it’s inevitable that people are dying after testing as a false positive and therefore going down on the death numbers. I’m not playing this thing down but asking questions of what we’re being told. This has destroyed our economy, our lives, our attitude to living and socialising. I’m not convinced things will ever go back to how they were. Don’t you think we should all be questioning that now and if there is another way? As the article about Sweden showed. Especially as all broadcasters and the media are under strict warnings not to question the official government and sage strategy 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Teemu’s right foot

[The Real Buh 3,423]

15 minutes ago, horsefly said:

This is truly shocking. The Tories have seemingly adopted the propaganda tactics of Joseph Goebbels.  The Government is demanding that any financial support for the arts is conditional on publicly publishing praise for the Johnson regime.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/oct/18/want-an-arts-bailout-then-youd-better-praise-sunak-co

"Arts organisations and businesses desperate for financial survival have been told that rescue grants are tied to them publicly praising a government campaign."

"Recipients in both rounds were instructed to “to welcome this funding on your social media accounts (using #HereforCulture), on your website (using the ‘Here for Culture’ logo) and in your newsletters”. The directive, first reported by the trade magazine ArtsProfessional, added that: “In receiving this funding, you are agreeing to acknowledge this funding publicly by crediting the government’s Culture Recovery Fund. This is a challenging time for the cultural sector, and the ‘Here for Culture’ campaign aims to build a positive movement uniting the members of the public and people across the sector to voice their support for culture. Alongside this, we require you to alert your local media outlets of the news."

 

Bye-bye freedom of speech.

 

This is shocking of true.

but it really wouldn’t surprise me

governments, left wing and right will remember our obedience. What they can get away with.

I hate totalitarianism, in all guises.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

5 hours ago, Teemu’s right foot said:

I was more questioning the testing of the already sick and dying in hospitals and care homes and not the amount of cases in the population. The more tests that are carried out then the more false positives that will be recorded. If there is a high number of infections in the community that are showing no symptoms and not getting tested then that isn’t altering the official figures. If though, we are getting high numbers of false positives from the already very sick and dying then it’s inevitable that people are dying after testing as a false positive and therefore going down on the death numbers. I’m not playing this thing down but asking questions of what we’re being told. This has destroyed our economy, our lives, our attitude to living and socialising. I’m not convinced things will ever go back to how they were. Don’t you think we should all be questioning that now and if there is another way? As the article about Sweden showed.

Whilst I think you are right to question the precision of the figures (for many reasons) unless this government is even more incompetent or untrustworthy than has already been visible then I think we have to accept that the trends are correct even though the figures are not very accurate.

So we are now in a period where the virus is spreading quite rapidly, deaths are rising quickly and the NHS in many areas is being overwhelmed, i.e. at over full capacity and already cancelling non-Covid treatments - something which we were told only a few weeks ago was definitely not going to happen again and in a situation that almost beggars belief hospitals are about to be fined for failing to meet the totally unreachable targets they were set for catching up on the non-Covid backlog by the end of this month!!!

So TBH I think over-analysis of the figures is pretty much irrevelent, surely what is the important is the nature of the Government's response to controlling the virus and returning life back to some sort of normality, though I don't think anyone is really expecting things to go back to how they were pre-pandemic. Indeed many of us are hoping that we will move forward to a new and better normal rather than return to the old normal.

But at the moment we have an incompetent government without a plan who delivered the worst of all worlds - restrictions which severely impact on all our lives and the economy, yet are still ineffective in containing the virus - 9 months in and there is still no strategy, just delusional optimism that they can continue make it up as they go along until a vaccine arrives.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Creative Midfielder

[Well b back 3,180]

56 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Whilst I think you are right to question the precision of the figures (for many reasons) unless this government is even more incompetent or untrustworthy than has already been visible then I think we have to accept that the trends are correct even though the figures are not very accurate.

So we are now in a period where the virus is spreading quite rapidly, deaths are rising quickly and the NHS in many areas is being overwhelmed, i.e. at over full capacity and already cancelling non-Covid treatments - something which we were told only a few weeks ago was definitely not going to happen again and in a situation that almost beggars belief hospitals are about to be fined for failing to meet the totally unreachable targets they were set for catching up on the non-Covid backlog by the end of this month!!!

So TBH I think over-analysis of the figures is pretty much irrevelent, surely what is the important is the nature of the Government's response to controlling the virus and returning life back to some sort of normality, though I don't think anyone is really expecting things to go back to how they were pre-pandemic. Indeed many of us are hoping we are hoping that we will move forward to a new and better normal rather than return to the old normal.

But at the moment we have an incompetent government without a plan who delivered the worst of all worlds - restrictions which severely impact on both on all our lives and the economy, yet are still ineffective in containing the virus - 9 months in and there is still no strategy, just delusional optimism that they can continue make it up as they go along until a vaccine arrives.

Hi CM

Are they really giving fines to the hospitals ? I don’t know if you read the link I put on earlier but that would be the last straw for some of our doctors and nurses.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-54623919

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

3 hours ago, Well b back said:

Hi CM

Are they really giving fines to the hospitals ? I don’t know if you read the link I put on earlier but that would be the last straw for some of our doctors and nurses.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-54623919

Well whether they will go ahead or not I don't know, it seems utter madness even for this government.

But the last thing I read, I think a couple of weeks ago, was saying that the targets that were set back in the summer (that many trusts thought were undeliverable anyway, even before the increase in Covid infection which has now been underway for quite a while) were still in place and had to be delivered by the end of this month or the stated financial penalties would be applied.

It may be that the penalties won't be applied although even that won't entirely resolve the problem - the point the trusts were making is that, apart from being quite ridiculous when they are struggling to cope with an upsurge in the virus was also, unlike the government it seems, they have to plan ahead (who would have guessed the need for that??) and that they therefore have no option but to plan based on the government's statement that their budgets will be hit from next week.

I think the norm is NHS hospitals is that staffing rotas are scheduled 6 weeks in advance and whilst in practice that often doesn't happen - 2 weeks ahead is not uncommon round here - the effect of the fines will have already been factored into staffing levels for the next few weeks for sure.

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Creative Midfielder

[Well b back 3,180]

10 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Well whether they will go ahead or not I don't know, it seems utter madness even for this government.

But the last thing I read, I think a couple of weeks ago, was saying that the targets that were set back in the summer (that many trusts thought were undeliverable anyway, even before the increase in Covid infection which has now been underway for quite a while) were still in place and had to be delivered by the end of this month or the stated financial penalties would be applied.

It may be that the penalties won't be applied although even that won't entirely resolve the problem - the point the trusts were making is that apart from being quite ridculous when they are struggling to cope with an upsurge in the virus was also, unlike the government it seems, they have to plan ahead (who would have guessed the need for that??) and that they therefore have no option but to plan based on the government's statement that their budgets will be hit from next week.

I think the norm is NHS hospitals is that staffing rotas are scheduled 6 weeks in advance and whilst in practice that often doesn't happen - 2 weeks ahead is not uncommon round here - the effect of the fines will have already been factored into staffing levels for the next few weeks for sure.

 

Interesting this time after seeing that link that some are even considering walking if they are put on the COVID wards. Although we knew our doctors and nurses were having a bad time, didn’t realise just how bad and how they then went on to be sick before shifts, those retiring are no longer coming back ( the government are telling us they are volunteering in their droves ), some of the things they must have seen. If they can’t staff the Nightingales where the hell do we go then ?

[Well b back 3,180]

Morning all

You will know I have regularly posted about Midlands Today and their claims of Midlands NHS being readied to launch the vaccine very soon. These links have been removed ( presumably by the national BBC ) as quick as they went on. We now have the Daily Mail claiming they have seen these letters and they tie in with the Midlands Today ie NHS, Care homes ect Sometime between now and the end of November then mass vaccinations beginning in December. Being a bit of a wizz ( knew nothing about them in March ) on vaccines going by their description it can only be Pfizer or Oxford as you will need 2 doses. Looks like Sarah Gilbert may have her name written in world history. 
 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8875931/Coronavirus-vaccine-weeks-NHS-workers.html

[Barbe bleu 809]

9 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Morning all

You will know I have regularly posted about Midlands Today and their claims of Midlands NHS being readied to launch the vaccine very soon. These links have been removed ( presumably by the national BBC ) as quick as they went on. We now have the Daily Mail claiming they have seen these letters and they tie in with the Midlands Today ie NHS, Care homes ect Sometime between now and the end of November then mass vaccinations beginning in December.

This story is getting some traction now so increasingly likely we will be moving though the phases within a matter of weeks i think.

Hopefully we'll get formal news soon as the timing of the vaccine is absolutely central to every single other bit of short term policy government will make 

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Barbe bleu

[Well b back 3,180]

1 minute ago, Barbe bleu said:

This story is getting some traction now so increasingly likely we will be moving though the phases within a matter of weeks i think.

Hopefully we'll get formal news soon as the timing of the vaccine is absolutely central to every single other bit of short term policy government will make 

 

Yes if you noticed yesterday I linked the new laws meaning we don’t have to go with European laws to release the vaccine. I found it on the NHS website and the Daily Mail are more or less saying it was kept a secret. Based on the unfortunate guy dieing in Brazil I reckon the results are already in and we are authorising emergency usage. The reason I suspect that is how could they know or ( within trial rules ) be able to release news that the guy was on the Placebo.

Trump must be either a) kicking himself if it was him that put a spanner in the works re Oxford and the US or b) having somebodies head from the FDA if it was them. Looks like he would have had his vaccine by 3/11 had they not tried to delay everything non American.

Social media will now become awash with the anti vaxers, hope we have a plan for that and any false info like this vaccine is only 9 months old is immediately taken down. If I thought there was a chance of getting it in a couple of weeks I would start queuing now lol.

[Well b back 3,180]

The weird thing is, The BBC who had this story weeks ago, aren’t even reporting it.

[Yellow Fever 3,733]

A certain section of opinion obviously clearly doesn't like potential restrictions - let alone any lockdowns - and are trying to claim that they do more harm than good.

I'm actually rather fed up with the circular argument. They are inverting cause and effect.

Back to basics.

The virus which we know spreads rapidly will hospitalize a great many people of which a significant number will also die.  Improved treatments help but don't stop hospitalization.

The people hospitalized will overwhelm the NHS in short order unless something is done to limit the numbers - the NHS's only possible response is to prioritize those in the most urgent need. I take it as a given that nobody is saying we should refuse to treat those over 70, vulnerable or otherwise deemed unworthy.

Tier 1 (which we have had for many months under differing names) is clearly ineffective, Tier 2 with more onerous economic costs seems only to be a prelude to Tier 3. Tier 3 most experts think will certainly slow the disease but probably not reverse.

 

All the so called additional 'health' issues due to hospital delays, screening and overloading result from the hospitals being overloaded with virus cases. The proposed 'lockdowns' do not of themselves cause further hospital overloading or delays - indeed they do the exact opposite - reduce the virus prevalence and incidentally tend to reduce many other diseases (flu) and even traffic, pollution and work accidents as well. Do nothing or 'open up' too soon and we simply exacerbate all the NHS health issues that the 'no lockdown' group argue about! 

Those that argue a limited lockdown causes health problems are hence clearly guilty of reversing cause and effect. The cause is the virus prevalence not any lockdowns.

Yes there is an economic hit to lockdowns and no doubt some 'mental health' issues  but as global evidence clearly suggests those who 'deal' with virus most energetically have shorter lockdowns, fewer cases and a quicker return to quasi economic normality all health issues included.

Nobody wants restrictions and lockdowns - but unless a pragmatic and achievable alternative to limit the virus prevalence can be found (yes vaccines in due course) they remain the only effective solution commensurate with the public compliance in the societies concerned to stop not only the direct Covid issues but indeed just about all the 'knock-on' additional health and economic issues too!

Edited October 25, 2020 by Yellow Fever

[Teemu’s right foot 53]

2 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Whilst I think you are right to question the precision of the figures (for many reasons) unless this government is even more incompetent or untrustworthy than has already been visible then I think we have to accept that the trends are correct even though the figures are not very accurate.

So we are now in a period where the virus is spreading quite rapidly, deaths are rising quickly and the NHS in many areas is being overwhelmed, i.e. at over full capacity and already cancelling non-Covid treatments - something which we were told only a few weeks ago was definitely not going to happen again and in a situation that almost beggars belief hospitals are about to be fined for failing to meet the totally unreachable targets they were set for catching up on the non-Covid backlog by the end of this month!!!

So TBH I think over-analysis of the figures is pretty much irrevelent, surely what is the important is the nature of the Government's response to controlling the virus and returning life back to some sort of normality, though I don't think anyone is really expecting things to go back to how they were pre-pandemic. Indeed many of us are hoping we are hoping that we will move forward to a new and better normal rather than return to the old normal.

But at the moment we have an incompetent government without a plan who delivered the worst of all worlds - restrictions which severely impact on both on all our lives and the economy, yet are still ineffective in containing the virus - 9 months in and there is still no strategy, just delusional optimism that they can continue make it up as they go along until a vaccine arrives.

A better normal would be fantastic but unfortunately It will be the same as with every crisis. All that will happen is the rich will become richer and the poor, poorer.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

Just now, Teemu’s right foot said:

A better normal would be fantastic but unfortunately It will be the same as with every crisis. All that will happen is the rich will become richer and the poor, poorer.

Sadly, you are probably right!

[Barbe bleu 809]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

A certain section of opinion obviously clearly doesn't like potential restrictions - let alone any lockdowns - and are trying to claim that they do more harm than good.

I'm actually rather fed up with the circular argument. They are inverting cause and effect.

Back to basics.

The virus which we know spreads rapidly will hospitalize a great many people of which a significant number will also die.  Improved treatments help but don't stop hospitalization.

The people hospitalized will overwhelm the NHS in short order unless something is done to limit the numbers - the NHS's only possible response is to prioritize those in the most urgent need. I take it as a given that nobody is saying we should refuse to treat those over 70, vulnerable or otherwise deemed unworthy.

Tier 1 (which we have had for many months under differing names) is clearly ineffective, Tier 2 with more onerous economic costs seems only to be a prelude to Tier 3. Tier 3 most experts think will certainly slow the disease but probably not reverse.

 

All the so called additional 'health' issues due to hospital delays, screening and overloading result from the hospitals being overloaded with virus cases. The proposed 'lockdowns' do not of themselves cause further hospital overloading or delays - indeed they do the exact opposite - reduce the virus prevalence and incidentally tend to reduce many other diseases (flu) and even traffic, pollution and work accidents as well. Do nothing or 'open up' too soon and we simply exacerbate all the NHS health issues that the 'no lockdown' group argue about! 

Those that argue a limited lockdown causes health problems are hence clearly guilty of reversing cause and effect. The cause is the virus prevalence not any lockdowns.

Yes there is an economic hit to lockdowns and no doubt some 'mental health' issues  but as global evidence clearly suggests those who 'deal' with virus most energetically have shorter lockdowns, fewer cases and a quicker return to quasi economic normality all health issues included.

Nobody wants restrictions and lockdowns - but unless a pragmatic and achievable alternative to limit the virus prevalence can be found (yes vaccines in due course) they remain the only effective solution commensurate with the public compliance in the societies concerned to stop not only the direct Covid issues but indeed just about all the 'knock-on' additional health and economic issues too!

Have you just not literally repeated the government's policy there?  We were told right at the start that distancing measures would be used to greater or lesser degrees for the foreseeable future in order to keep the hospitals at less than capacity and to buy time.

[horsefly 4,273]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/ministers-still-hiding-full-details-of-2016-pandemic-simulation/ar-BB1amshp?ocid=msedgdhp

 

"Campaigners have questioned what the government is hiding by choosing not to release all the documents relating to Exercise Cygnus, a three-day wargaming simulation that examined what would happen if there were an influenza pandemic in the UK."

"We have been requesting Cygnus for many months now, and the government has repeatedly delayed disclosure, saying each time that it was ‘weighing the public interest’ while NHS frontline workers were struggling blindly, deprived of potentially life-saving data,” Qureshi said. “Now the government has published what the newspapers published months ago, and its document is preposterously bereft of the healthcare data expected from a national pandemic exercise, which begs the question, “What else is this government hiding?"

[Aggy 747]

2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

so called additional 'health' issues

'mental health' issues  

The use of “So called ‘health’ issues” to describe potentially hundreds of thousands of deaths? ‘Mental health’ in inverted commas?

Wow. 

[Well b back 3,180]

If this is true no wonder the hospitals were never overwhelmed. 

[Well b back 3,180]

Sorry only meant it to go on once, not a tecky lol

[Herman 9,698]

9 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Sorry only meant it to go on once, not a tecky lol

No worries. Thanks for posting.The side article should also be read.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-day-covid-quarantine-and-none-for-jet-set-hcwzs9prr

Especially the last paragraph.😐

[Well b back 3,180]

32 minutes ago, Herman said:

No worries. Thanks for posting.The side article should also be read.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-day-covid-quarantine-and-none-for-jet-set-hcwzs9prr

Especially the last paragraph.😐

Yep

Instead of becoming unpopular forcing people to comply, he folds to the minority again. 
With the rest of Europe imposing curfews and moving closer to another lockdown ( they mainly state because of non compliance ) what does Boris have to say - Things should be ok by Christmas. As much as I pray this could be correct, with the greatest will in the world, even if the likes of me have the vaccine by Christmas, things will be far from normal for a long while yet. We laugh at Trump for making similar claims.

[Yellow Fever 3,733]

3 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

Have you just not literally repeated the government's policy there?  We were told right at the start that distancing measures would be used to greater or lesser degrees for the foreseeable future in order to keep the hospitals at less than capacity and to buy time.

It may well be the policy of this government and indeed most others in the world. The question for this particular government is however their incompetence in implementing it.