Corona Virus main thread

[Barbe bleu 814]

4 hours ago, horsefly said:

I'll clarify my points too:

1. We are hardly unique re the virus or the nature of our country.

2. Comparisons with many countries are helpful as any health researcher will tell you.

3. If you are prepared to compare South America with South East Asia then it is inexplicable why you are so reticent to compare other parts of the world.

OK.

[Jools 584]

44 minutes ago, ricardo said:

To much common sense, I'm afraid.

 

👍

 

ONS figures. These extra non-covid deaths are just the start. How many of the top 10 deaths in Sept were due to lockdown restrictions(covid was the 19th). Lockdown enthusiasts in government have some explaining to do.

 

"A total of 39,827 people died in England in September, which was 2,568 more than usual for that month. In Wales there were 2,610 deaths - 135 more than average.

Coronavirus accounted for fewer than one in 50 of these, composing 1.7 per cent of deaths in England and 1.3 per cent in Wales".

Edited October 23, 2020 by Jools

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

5 hours ago, sonyc said:

I want to put my own view here which I believe supports both viewpoints (parts of). The country of NZ is of course different in its demography and population distribution. It is very small. But, Ardern has also been communicative, consistent, proactive and humble (read that to mean empathic) throughout the pandemic. That approach, or style, if you prefer, has engendered public trust and confidence. It hasn't been marked by spin, lies, public contracts given to non health experts and sheer incompetence through challenge and counter challenge followed by u turns. That is why their economy and health approaches are more in sync with each other (in my opinion) and it helps with public behaviour. Longer term they may well be more nimble in their economic recovery. Which kind of administration would you prefer? We all know the UK is more complex. Yet what we really need is simple good governance in such a global crisis. In this realm NZ gets 8 or 9 out of 10 surely (to reduce this to a tabloid level for simplicity for a moment). What mark out of 10 do we give this government, despite all our different political persuasions? I would wager it's difficult to give more than 5 out of 10 even from your more neutral viewpoint BB?

I agree with all of that except for the very last sentence - 3 out of 10 would be the max score IMO for the UK government (and it only reaches that because of the furlough scheme) and BB's viewpoint isn't remotely neutral,as I'm sure you know, but you are, as ever, admirably diplomatic 😀

[Barbe bleu 814]

32 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I agree with all of that except for the very last sentence - 3 out of 10 would be the max score IMO for the UK government (and it only reaches that because of the furlough scheme) and BB's viewpoint isn't remotely neutral,as I'm sure you know, but you are, as ever, admirably diplomatic 😀

If you can find a viewpoint that is closer to the middle ground than mine i am happy to hear the name!

I admit that I do sometimes get dragged into what could be seen as a defence of the government against those who start with a conclusion and look for evidence though...

[Van wink 2,994]

25 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

If you can find a viewpoint that is closer to the middle ground than mine i am happy to hear the name!

I admit that I do sometimes get dragged into what could be seen as a defence of the government against those who start with a conclusion and look for evidence though...

Centrist is regularly viewed as extreme on here. Those  that express those views are blinded by their own entrenched views. 
It’s the self professed “liberal” thinkers who are often the most prejudiced in their expressions, weird isn’t it?

[sonyc 5,492]

1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I agree with all of that except for the very last sentence - 3 out of 10 would be the max score IMO for the UK government (and it only reaches that because of the furlough scheme) and BB's viewpoint isn't remotely neutral,as I'm sure you know, but you are, as ever, admirably diplomatic 😀

Hahaha...yes 3/10 would be my take, perhaps you could really work hard and persuade me to give 4/10. I chose 5/10 for Barbe because he often states he is neutral and I was flabbergasted to read he gave a 6 or a 7! (sorry Barbe Bleu)

[sonyc 5,492]

7 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Centrist is regularly viewed as extreme on here. Those  that express those views are blinded by their own entrenched views. 
It’s the self professed “liberal” thinkers who are often the most prejudiced in their expressions, weird isn’t it?

I recall that Bill used to think you and Barbe Bleu were the same? 🙂

Edited October 23, 2020 by sonyc

[Van wink 2,994]

4 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I recall that Bill used to think you and Barbe Bleu were the same? 🙂

Must be right then, we must both be Nastis

Edited October 23, 2020 by Van wink

[sonyc 5,492]

1 minute ago, Van wink said:

Must be right then

And Rock the Boat etc.

Where is Bill and what happened to him? Time away or something else. Not followed so much but just realised he is away and he used to post regularly.

[Teemu’s right foot 53]

6 hours ago, Bagster said:

First debate lockdown v no lockdown

Facts confirmed

If you are under 70 , the survival rate is 99.95%

Average lifespan in UK is 81

Average age of death from covid 19 is 82

 

Said on here a few days ago that the lockdown and these restrictions will take many lives. lockdown hasn’t saved lives it’s just traded them. The average age of death from the lockdown and restrictions will be far, far lower than the average age of death from covid. Sensible conversation in this video and I agree completely with the person on the video from Sheffield. We can’t continue to destroy everything for this virus or there will be little left from what we had before to go back to. 

[sonyc 5,492]

21 minutes ago, Teemu’s right foot said:

Said on here a few days ago that the lockdown and these restrictions will take many lives. lockdown hasn’t saved lives it’s just traded them. The average age of death from the lockdown and restrictions will be far, far lower than the average age of death from covid. Sensible conversation in this video and I agree completely with the person on the video from Sheffield. We can’t continue to destroy everything for this virus or there will be little left from what we had before to go back to. 

It is an interesting  piece (though the narrative comments over the Zero Covid bloke was tiresome) and makes compelling points. I liked the point from the economist about spending money on the things to build infrastructure (hundreds of millions) rather than trying to spend on  trying to stop things that might happen. Yet, doesn't that just tell us that our NHS was so under-funded in the first place and indeed has been for so long....that the government had to act to protect it? And given that in the original exponential phase we didn't know what to expect then suppression measures were arguably needed. Who knows for certain though that we won't be moving into a new exponential phase is everything is left unfettered/untouched?

Edited October 23, 2020 by sonyc

[sonyc 5,492]

26 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Must be right then, we must both be Nastis

You're not Bill yourself then?! 😉

[Well b back 3,190]

It’s ok we have nothing to worry about.

It is Boris Johnson's "ambition" for people to celebrate Christmas with their families, his spokesman has said.

The prime minister is "hopeful" that "some aspects of our lives" could be "back to normal" by then, he added.

[ricardo 7,347]

2 minutes ago, sonyc said:

 Who knows for certain though that we won't be moving into a new exponential phase is everything is left unfettered/untouched?

We have the evidence of the nations that are two to four weeks ahead of us and what does it show regarding the prediction of daily deaths in the thousands?

The mistake being made is treating the positive numbers as actual cases. They aren't, its pretty clear now that what we at first feared as some sort of Black Death with unheard death rates is not coming to pass. We shouldn't  be destroying the rest of society for a virus with a 99.9% survival rate. Its utter madness.

[ricardo 7,347]

9 minutes ago, sonyc said:

You're not Bill yourself then?! 😉

We are all Bill now💀

[sonyc 5,492]

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

We have the evidence of the nations that are two to four weeks ahead of us and what does it show regarding the prediction of daily deaths in the thousands?

The mistake being made is treating the positive numbers as actual cases. They aren't, its pretty clear now that what we at first feared as some sort of Black Death with unheard death rates is not coming to pass. We shouldn't  be destroying the rest of society for a virus with a 99.9% survival rate. Its utter madness.

I've never stopped hoping you're right Ricardo believe me. I simply remain sceptical and that's a healthy position I think given the amount of data shared online from many sources. I now ask myself what political point is the person giving the message getting over. Watching other countries is instructive. 

On the government, I use my eyes and see what I see and how people vote / respond....but when it comes to data as stated I'm more on the fence. Worried well is a good term that I think you used and it's probably applicable to me....cannot deny it. Trying to keep as much perspective as possible is a full time job!

[sonyc 5,492]

9 minutes ago, ricardo said:

We are all Bill now💀

Haha....What happened to him? Some threads really got tangled and derailed  with in-fighting but there were some real nuggets and wisdom at times.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

47 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Hahaha...yes 3/10 would be my take, perhaps you could really work hard and persuade me to give 4/10. I chose 5/10 for Barbe because he often states he is neutral and I was flabbergasted to read he gave a 6 or a 7! (sorry Barbe Bleu)

Exactly, and despite my my contempt for Johnson and his cabinet of duplicitous sycophants I'd love to hear a genuine pitch that they deserve that additional mark for their governance this year but I'm genuinely baffled as to where\how they would start to build a case.

As for BB's 6 or 7, I think that is a far more compelling rebuttal of his neutrality than anything I could ever come up with 😂

[Well b back 3,190]

3 hours ago, Jools said:

👍

 

ONS figures. These extra non-covid deaths are just the start. How many of the top 10 deaths in Sept were due to lockdown restrictions(covid was the 19th). Lockdown enthusiasts in government have some explaining to do.

 

"A total of 39,827 people died in England in September, which was 2,568 more than usual for that month. In Wales there were 2,610 deaths - 135 more than average.

Coronavirus accounted for fewer than one in 50 of these, composing 1.7 per cent of deaths in England and 1.3 per cent in Wales".

Please make sure you update us with October’s figures and especially November’s, unfortunately I sense Covid will make an appearance at number 1 again.

[Teemu’s right foot 53]

Interesting read on the damage that’s being done to children mental health 

 

[Jools 584]

34 minutes ago, ricardo said:

We are all Bill now💀

What's happened to Billock? The old 🔔🔚

I'm sure Hermeister misses him.

[sonyc 5,492]

5 minutes ago, Jools said:

What's happened to Billock? The old 🔔🔚

I'm sure Hermeister misses him.

I've asked the same question but strangely it's very quiet! I feel as if I've asked some kind of sensitive question...in which case my apologies!

[Herman 9,717]

I assume he must have been banned. And no Tools, as much as I miss you.

More importantly where's @keelansgrandad?

[ricardo 7,347]

Hope he's ok. Out on the golf course eating pasties probably.

[Bagster 101]

In September of 2019 the shadow banking system crashed since then the world economy has been propped up by the fed and central banks printing money 

Between hiding the complete cluster**** that is our monetary system , huge profits for big pharma ( look at event 201 and the swine flu 2009) and a chance to introduce such things as ' health passports' we are witnessing a cover up, a look here oh my it's terrible moment!

Our capitulation is complete, we are officially a p u s s y nation, I am truly embarrassed.

When the CBDC is introduced they will own you and that is what you deserve.

 

[sonyc 5,492]

33 minutes ago, Herman said:

I assume he must have been banned. And no Tools, as much as I miss you.

More importantly where's @keelansgrandad?

Really good question. He is a regular too!

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Exactly, and despite my my contempt for Johnson and his cabinet of duplicitous sycophants I'd love to hear a genuine pitch that they deserve that additional mark for their governance this year but I'm genuinely baffled as to where\how they would start to build a case.

As for BB's 6 or 7, I think that is a far more compelling rebuttal of his neutrality than anything I could ever come up with 😂

Candidly I'm trying to work out to what the government has done that I agreed with at the time, or ended up belatedly doing after being found wanting.

On that basis 2/10.  The 2 is only after getting it wrong just everytime (Sunak included) and then changing their mind - albeit too late as ever. Sympathy vote

Oh - just remembered Barnard Castle - Sorry it has to be an honest 0/10 as complete and utter shysters.

 

[Herman 9,717]

10 minutes ago, Bagster said:

In September of 2019 the shadow banking system crashed since then the world economy has been propped up by the fed and central banks printing money 

Between hiding the complete cluster**** that is our monetary system , huge profits for big pharma ( look at event 201 and the swine flu 2009) and a chance to introduce such things as ' health passports' we are witnessing a cover up, a look here oh my it's terrible moment!

Our capitulation is complete, we are officially a p u s s y nation, I am truly embarrassed.

When the CBDC is introduced they will own you and that is what you deserve.

 

[Bagster 101]

 

[sonyc 5,492]

7 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Candidly I'm trying to work out to what the government has done that I agreed with at the time, or ended up belatedly doing after being found wanting.

On that basis 2/10.  The 2 is only after getting it wrong just everytime (Sunak included) and then changing their mind - albeit too late as ever. Sympathy vote

Oh - just remembered Barnard Castle - Sorry it has to be an honest 0/10 as complete and utter shysters.

 

10/10 for u turns surely? 

Shows a degree of sensitivity.....responding to events of the day, they're listening you know😉