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1 minute ago, Chumino said:

Certainly is. Apparently large queues formed at 8.30am for a 10 am opening of the local Tesco to instantly clear the shelves of hand wash and sanitiser. Madness 

Human nature

Proper prior preperation prevents panic.

Unfortunately most wait until the SHTF.

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16 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Amazing how quickly civilized society begins to crumble once the bog rolls run out.

It’s the key event which triggered off the last war,

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Just now, Indy said:

It’s the key event which triggered off the last war,

Yes you see the mess the SS made of Warsaw TESCO.

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37 minutes ago, Indy said:

It’s the key event which triggered off the last war,

Funnily enough what made people first notice the oncoming crisis in Venezuela was the shortage of toilet roll.

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Sorry Herman I misread it.

I thought you said vuvuzela, and the noise it makes usually makes me need some toilet roll...

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The annoying thing is that those who can afford to 'stock up' wan't be the ones willing to eat the same stuff a few months down the line. Dried pasta, rice etc will simply be thrown out.

It is those on a low income who do not have 'spare' money to buy in bulk who are affected. It is pensioners on a limited budget who will suffer if their shopping visits are limited and then find essentials not available.

All this is doing is causing as sense of fear that manifests itself as panic, and irrational behaviour. No one is starving or will starve.... who are bulk buying. Starvation is what happens in the third world.

And it is not 'human nature' either'.  It is behaviour brought on by a fear of there being a shortage.  A supposed shortage stoked up by inflammatory stuff put out by certain sections of the media,

The same sections who endlessly bleat about the wartime years, the stoicism of the British....'keep calm and carry on' while refering to others who don't buy into this myth as 'snowflakes'.

Where now that stoicism Daily Mail ? Hidden behind your photos of empty shelves in shops. Photos of greedy and selfish folk putting two fingers up to the vunerable in society.

So my words to you who have been on the pillage today in a food shop is - stop being a c***.

 

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23 hours ago, Icecream Snow said:

Latest figures courtesy of the BBC

"There are 191 deaths and 6,046 infections in Spain. Italy, which has recorded more than 1,440 deaths, began a nationwide lockdown on Monday."

Compared to the 21 deaths in the UK, sounds like it's going to get a lot nastier.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-spain-death-toll-doubles-in-a-day-as-288-victims-now-confirmed-11957987

Italy now has at least 24,700 cases and 1809 deaths. UK death toll at 35.

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Pubs in Ireland closed for next two weeks due to irresponsible 'virus parties ' going on in various pubs around the country. Good move, if people cant behave, remove privileges.

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I am desperately trying to stock pile    1946  Chateau Latour. I am down to my last 12 bottles so if anyone hears of any local supplies I would be grateful 

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20 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

I am desperately trying to stock pile    1946  Chateau Latour. I am down to my last 12 bottles so if anyone hears of any local supplies I would be grateful 

There's plenty of Corona about if you run short.

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Posted (edited)

I watched Nick Hancock on Marr on Sunday. It is clear to me this man is out of his depth and appeared to be making things up as he went along. 

And as for the idea that over 70's will be told to curfew for 4 months in their homes over the summer months is utterly disgraceful and something akin to a communist state. 

It won't apply to me, but I know so many over 70's who are very fit and active not just in leisure but as volunteers or workers. I know plenty of under 70's who are box-set binging slobs. 

Old doesn't mean stupid. If anything the qualities of older people are untapped by society. Some develop dementia but others have formidable intellect. More than Hancock, certainly. 

Over 70's got to that age and situation on some good fortune and a lot of merit. Patronising them shows the ignorence and lack of life skills by younger generations. 

As you age, time is precious. To lose a summer is massive. These people live to the full. 

Dangerously, constant Government briefing against older people will lead large sections of stupid people to see Covid-19 as some form of elderly illness and react accordingly. 

The over 70's will take precautions. They will do anything to protect their children and grandchildren and given the choice would take the hit ahead of them. 

This group is generally wise enough to self-manage themselves. 

But to prejudice a group based on age is as wrong as on any ethnic, gender or other grounds. It is disgraceful. 

No one wants to get this disease, less so to pass it on to anyone else but equally no one wants a life devoid of contact or of quality, without exercise or fresh air. We might as well be dead. 

It is personally tragic for any death but as politicians are afraid to offend anyone, outside of the elderly, society will ultimately make the decisions for them. 

I tell you now, as quality of life diminishes, as businesses fail (and that means local pubs, restaurants, traders and such who give a quality to life) as people feel trapped and imprisoned and lose income, businesses and jobs there WILL be massive civil disobedience because the balance of trashing the economy and ruining the lives of 95% of the population will not stack up against the death rate. 

As an aside I also predict if large companies go under they will be bought up by the Chinese. How ironic?! 

Edited by Ramrod
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Some passionate points Ramrod. The 70 plus idea is rather curious, simply selecting an age. I would wager though that advisors have looked at hospital admissions over the past few years and decided accordingly. Like you, I don't think stupidity either is the preserve of any age group.

Without being apologist for the response so far (which I am certainly not), the response is merely to try and protect an already stretched NHS. The recent budget clearly was evidence of a realisation of what investment levels were needed (and not just in the NHS). And people voted for this let's not forget.

The message hasn't been clear and seems to change ("we may but we can't say when" type messages). In the midst of the worst crisis I can remember across Europe and the world, we haven't even heard from the PM since last Thursday. Thursday, let me repeat!

I often think of myself as one of the stupid ones so how on earth can someone like me have seen this coming for a long while! The situation when it was emerging in China was clearly something we ought to have been extremely worried about. Surely, our public health system has robust risk management / contingency / emergency planning in place? I'm sure they have but their headroom and capacity is so meagre / thin? I'm guessing here.

Yet, we are an individualistic society and love our freedoms. This is why policy measures such as this 70 plus idea feels at odds with the way we live. I think we must expect a lot more. We are only perhaps at a point near the top of a wave. It hasn't hit yet. Financial markets have reacted and again there's worse to come. Just model your own numbers on the likely increase in cases and you can see how this may unfold.

We will come through this and perhaps our government (perhaps even those Eton types) and society will have found a new understanding about what really matters. It will have been educative. It will lead to more caring and responsible government. This is my hope.

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12 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Some passionate points Ramrod. The 70 plus idea is rather curious, simply selecting an age. I would wager though that advisors have looked at hospital admissions over the past few years and decided accordingly. Like you, I don't think stupidity either is the preserve of any age group.

Without being apologist for the response so far (which I am certainly not), the response is merely to try and protect an already stretched NHS. The recent budget clearly was evidence of a realisation of what investment levels were needed (and not just in the NHS). And people voted for this let's not forget.

The message hasn't been clear and seems to change ("we may but we can't say when" type messages). In the midst of the worst crisis I can remember across Europe and the world, we haven't even heard from the PM since last Thursday. Thursday, let me repeat!

I often think of myself as one of the stupid ones so how on earth can someone like me have seen this coming for a long while! The situation when it was emerging in China was clearly something we ought to have been extremely worried about. Surely, our public health system has robust risk management / contingency / emergency planning in place? I'm sure they have but their headroom and capacity is so meagre / thin? I'm guessing here.

Yet, we are an individualistic society and love our freedoms. This is why policy measures such as this 70 plus idea feels at odds with the way we live. I think we must expect a lot more. We are only perhaps at a point near the top of a wave. It hasn't hit yet. Financial markets have reacted and again there's worse to come. Just model your own numbers on the likely increase in cases and you can see how this may unfold.

We will come through this and perhaps our government (perhaps even those Eton types) and society will have found a new understanding about what really matters. It will have been educative. It will lead to more caring and responsible government. This is my hope.

I think you've answered RAMRODs points well. 

Civil liberties will have to be suspended in the coming days and weeks and yes there will be 'blanket' clauses.

It will be to try to save the most. For what it's worth I think the 'divide' the population into 'vulnerable' and less so is probably too little too late but it will help some. Nevertheless as SonyC says it will be government policy like it or not.

All groups will be affected in differing ways.

As was stated by the govt.  - if you wilfully disobey - 70, 80, 90 expect a large fine and possible imprisonment.  Don't expect any sympathy from me for such people if the government goes this route. Many people will die early before they reach the age of 70!

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Marr also had the Italian Ambassador on his programme who said, unchallenged, he had no idea why Coronavirus was so big in Italy. 

Coronavirus is from China. The huge Italian textiles industry has for years employed and been taken over by the Chinese. That's why the silk ties and leather belts you buy in Florence markets for example are so cheap. 

There have been huge social tensions for years as the Chinese undercut the local workforce. You can blame greedy companies for utilising labour working to Chinese standards in Italy, ie cheap labour. 

This labour contains illegal immigrants (overstaying on tourist visas is popular) organised between the companies and China and resulting in many 'Italian' brands being Chinese owned. 

With such a large concentration of Chinese and a clandestine way of operating Coronavirus got in and is now killing the 2nd oldest population on earth. 

We have no idea how our cheap goods are being made in that communist country which likes to present a certain image at odds with reality. Slave and captive Labour and peasant exploitation and we don't care if the price is right. 

I have been to China and seen both faces. And I am talking about 'Han' China. 

The Han people are Taiwanese, Malay and Singaporean too but in China they are a different society. Why do you think the Cantonese people fear them, why Hong Kong is so alarmed. 

China is set on World expansion. It is raping Africa, it is threatening its maritime neighbours, expanding its navy to control sea lanes and project power, creating its own port in Pakistan, inhabiting sparsely populated Eastern Russia, buying property in major cities such as London and leaving them empty, eating unfarmed wildlife, and still it has a massive peasant class living in poverty. 

China has been made powerful by greedy Western companies and multinationals seeking no questions asked cheap labour. 

Now good Chinese people, usually Cantonese, and anyone who looks oriental are being subjected to suspicion and abuse. These people have been good citizens for years but the new China exploiting their peasantry and expanding by any means are something different. 

China owns huge amounts of foreign debt, they gave other countries by the balls hence the lack of public criticism. 

This plague affecting Europe and the USA will benefit China unless we stop using them as a workshop and wean ourselves off cheap goods or maje greater use of robotics. 

This is why Italy had a huge cluster of cases and from there it spreads across Europe. 

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3 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I think you've answered RAMRODs points well. 

Civil liberties will have to be suspended in the coming days and weeks and yes there will be 'blanket' clauses.

It will be to try to save the most. For what it's worth I think the 'divide' the population into 'vulnerable' and less so is probably too little too late but it will help some. Nevertheless as SonyC says it will be government policy like it or not.

All groups will be affected in differing ways.

As was stated by the govt.  - if you wilfully disobey - 70, 80, 90 expect a large fine and possible imprisonment.  Don't expect any sympathy from me for such people if the government goes this route. Many people will die early before they reach the age of 70!

You need to forget governments and think people. Italy is a relatively new country of very disperate regions due to geography. It is the most Conservative in Europe but also prone to corruption and dictatorship. 

Spain is divided but only came out of dictatorship in the 1970's. 

France is very divided and always in a state of flux with a strong pariizan element capable of rallying behind anything. 

Germans are great but not when it comes to empathetic policy. 

Britain is moderate, middle of the road, inclined to deliberation or lack of preparedness. That's why we lose every battle except the last one. 

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Posted (edited)

A propos of nothing, my sister-in-law - a consultant virologist - says don't panic! Most healthy people will just have a 4 day flu and then be  immune for a year or so. The elderly, those with high blood pressure, and smokers etc are naturally at a higher risk.

Mind you, she mis-diagnosed my wife's broken collar bone 30 years ago :classic_biggrin:.

Edited by Fuzzar
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2 minutes ago, Fuzzar said:

A propos of nothing, my sister-in-law - a consultant virologist - says don't panic! Most healthy people will just have a 4 day flu and then be  immune for a year or so. The elderly, those with high blood pressure, and smokers etc are naturally at a higher risk.

if the immunity part is true, how about this:

if you think you're healthy, register for infection.

Go for a check up, if you are healthy,, get infected - as part  of a time-managed system.

Self isolate for 2 weeks.

Go back to work, perhaps take on support work to help the vulnerable, who will be in isolation till the infection programme's complete.

Length of programme would be the main problem I would think.

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16 minutes ago, Ramrod said:

Marr also had the Italian Ambassador on his programme who said, unchallenged, he had no idea why Coronavirus was so big in Italy. 

Coronavirus is from China. The huge Italian textiles industry has for years employed and been taken over by the Chinese. That's why the silk ties and leather belts you buy in Florence markets for example are so cheap. 

There have been huge social tensions for years as the Chinese undercut the local workforce. You can blame greedy companies for utilising labour working to Chinese standards in Italy, ie cheap labour. 

This labour contains illegal immigrants (overstaying on tourist visas is popular) organised between the companies and China and resulting in many 'Italian' brands being Chinese owned. 

With such a large concentration of Chinese and a clandestine way of operating Coronavirus got in and is now killing the 2nd oldest population on earth. 

We have no idea how our cheap goods are being made in that communist country which likes to present a certain image at odds with reality. Slave and captive Labour and peasant exploitation and we don't care if the price is right. 

I have been to China and seen both faces. And I am talking about 'Han' China. 

The Han people are Taiwanese, Malay and Singaporean too but in China they are a different society. Why do you think the Cantonese people fear them, why Hong Kong is so alarmed. 

China is set on World expansion. It is raping Africa, it is threatening its maritime neighbours, expanding its navy to control sea lanes and project power, creating its own port in Pakistan, inhabiting sparsely populated Eastern Russia, buying property in major cities such as London and leaving them empty, eating unfarmed wildlife, and still it has a massive peasant class living in poverty. 

China has been made powerful by greedy Western companies and multinationals seeking no questions asked cheap labour. 

Now good Chinese people, usually Cantonese, and anyone who looks oriental are being subjected to suspicion and abuse. These people have been good citizens for years but the new China exploiting their peasantry and expanding by any means are something different. 

China owns huge amounts of foreign debt, they gave other countries by the balls hence the lack of public criticism. 

This plague affecting Europe and the USA will benefit China unless we stop using them as a workshop and wean ourselves off cheap goods or maje greater use of robotics. 

This is why Italy had a huge cluster of cases and from there it spreads across Europe. 

 

I have no intention of going down this particular rabbit hole which is clearly based on a form of explicit racism.

That China may come out of this in a better shape than us in the west might just tell you something uncomfortable about their successful economic model - not that there aren't human rights and other issues there. "A little better everyday" as the saying  goes if you know your Mandarin

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28 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

I have no intention of going down this particular rabbit hole which is clearly based on a form of explicit racism.

That China may come out of this in a better shape than us in the west might just tell you something uncomfortable about their successful economic model - not that there aren't human rights and other issues there. "A little better everyday" as the saying  goes if you know your Mandarin

The irony of yellow fever calling out anti-china racism (and yes I know that you don't mean yellow fever that way, I just found it funny)

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5 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

The irony of yellow fever calling out anti-china racism (and yes I know that you don't mean yellow fever that way, I just found it funny)

It always the irony of my ' handle'  with 'Yellow Fever' on the corona virus thread which makes me think twice!

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1 hour ago, Fuzzar said:

A propos of nothing, my sister-in-law - a consultant virologist - says don't panic! Most healthy people will just have a 4 day flu and then be  immune for a year or so. The elderly, those with high blood pressure, and smokers etc are naturally at a higher risk.

Mind you, she mis-diagnosed my wife's broken collar bone 30 years ago :classic_biggrin:.

I have to ask, as what did she mis-diagnose it?!

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14 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I have to ask, as what did she mis-diagnose it?!

She said it was just bruising.

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54 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

I have no intention of going down this particular rabbit hole which is clearly based on a form of explicit racism.

That China may come out of this in a better shape than us in the west might just tell you something uncomfortable about their successful economic model - not that there aren't human rights and other issues there. "A little better everyday" as the saying  goes if you know your Mandarin

Racism? How dare you! What a lazy thinker you are. 

If you want to stop being a useful idiot for aggressive expansionist and broaden your mind could I recommend a recent book on Geopolitics by Tim Marshall a respected and experienced foreign correspondent titled 'Prisoners of Geography.' It will help you understand  what the Communist regime in China is attempting. 

South-East Asia and Indonesia must be racist in your world as they deal with threats from China without the subterfuge. 

Or do you think the virus came from pasta? 

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12 minutes ago, Fuzzar said:

She said it was just bruising.

Oh! I was hoping she'd diagnosed it as some obscure viral disease found only along the upper reaches of the Amazon and curable only with a mixture of snake venom and Diet-Coke...🙂

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Ramrod said:

Racism? How dare you! What a lazy thinker you are. 

If you want to stop being a useful idiot for aggressive expansionist and broaden your mind could I recommend a recent book on Geopolitics by Tim Marshall a respected and experienced foreign correspondent titled 'Prisoners of Geography.' It will help you understand  what the Communist regime in China is attempting. 

South-East Asia and Indonesia must be racist in your world as they deal with threats from China without the subterfuge. 

Or do you think the virus came from pasta? 

As I said - I don't wish to venture down your particular rabbit hole. 

Edited by Yellow Fever

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

As I said - I don't wish to venture down your particular rabbit hole. 

You did that when you made casual dispersions as to my character. 

But getting back to football isn't Norwich's strip made in Italy?

I hope the Club used due diligence to ensure it was made in a factory paying a living wage using non-exploited labour. 

You can read about the Italian/Chinese rag trade in BBC articles. It is another example of modern day slavery which is everywhere and, I suspect, rife in China. 

I was amazed how restricted people were in Tianamen Square, don't get officials in photos, don't discuss anything because ears are everywhere. Even our guide was accompanied by a party official. 

No internet just a national intranet. The cost of homes is astronomical meaning young people have little chance of marriage, no wonder they'd be easy to traffic. 

Pollution. Human rights abuses in Tibet and Xinjin County. 

China is an existential threat to the world on a number of levels. 

I have been told first hand of Bank of China staff in London being sent home with TB. I can't prove it but the disease is rife in China and all the hawking and spitting I saw there wouldn't help. 

This is all the fault of major companies using cheap labour which damaged industry in the West with all manner of social consequences. 

I bet you don't like Trump. Well, globalisation seeded the ground for him and others like him. 

I bet you don't get debates like this on WACCOE!? 

 

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This is a bit more like how things should be - I hope it catches on (no pun)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51906744

"Some Iceland stores will open one hour early to allow older shoppers to buy food when it is quieter amid the coronavirus outbreak.

Iceland said it was not a company policy, but it was allowing individual stores to decide how best to meet the needs of shoppers in their local areas."

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On ‎15‎/‎03‎/‎2020 at 12:38, dylanisabaddog said:

I have no medical knowledge whatsoever. For what it's worth and according to reliable Internet sources, the Chinese think it is the medication that causes the problem not the high BP. 

I've just read an article on the Lancet website about a study in China. this suggests that it is mainly the use of medication for hypertension that causes the problem but merely having it can also be a factor. At least that is my understanding. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30116-8/fulltext

As my wife is also at risk temporarily due to a chest infection and has been told to self-isolate as a precaution, I have persuaded my manager to let me work from home until further notice.

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