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22 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Read my whole statement accurately and you will see there is absolutely no contradiction in my position. If it helps you out let me amend the first statement that you have taken out of context to the following:

"No one is claiming anything at all about the life-expectancy of those with underlying conditions other than they would not have died (of those underlying conditions)at the moment they did if they had not caught Covid-19."

In other words Covid-19 killed them, and we do not speculate at all how long they would have survived with their underlying conditions if it had not.

No doubt future studies utilising statistical analysis will seek to do just that, but this set of statistics doesn't. 

If this isn't clear enough for you then I'm afraid I do not know how to make it any simpler.

 

No need for making it simpler. It’s what I’ve been saying to you all morning. Glad we now agree!

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Positives climb a little over 2% of tests

Latest UK Numbers 

4926 - 37

Inpatients  1319  up 238 since last update Saturday

 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

Yesterdays European.

Italy   1350 - 17

France 5298 - 53

Spain  2957 - 56

Germany  2074 -11

Big reduction in French and Spanish positives may reflect testing problems.

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15 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Its much the same everywhere, a six day wait in parts of France and testing in Spain is collapsing. Sometning to do with the supply of re-agents apparently.

How can you expect people to self isolate if they can't even get or book a test in short order ? Every snivel will cause endless lost days. 

God help the schools....

Edited by Yellow Fever
Then again I suppose everybody can go and test their eyesight......

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20 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Is it spread by pasties?

Better not be a shortage of them in a month's time when supplies start to run out after panic buying.

Might as well chuck ourselves off Hells Mouth😭

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If there was ever an example of why all politicians are absolutely f@££ing useless then it’s what’s happened today

guy fawkes night 2 when?

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Positive test rate - at 2% what is everyone there panicking about? Only the best of the US States are below, or even approaching 2%.. Some of them are at 15%.... so is UK over reacting? 
 

Reagents - why is there a shortage? Why has this problem not been sorted out? There must be money to be made through fixing it? 
 

Boris - it’s not our fault, Briton’s love freedom, in fact all the improvements in Britain over the centuries have come from .... Britain. That’s why we have to bring out the army to help the police and fine everybody. What a great speech .....
 

p.s. you can’t put a few thousand people in a football stadium, but you can keep cinemas open. 

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1 hour ago, Surfer said:

Positive test rate - at 2% what is everyone there panicking about? Only the best of the US States are below, or even approaching 2%.. Some of them are at 15%.... so is UK over reacting? 
 

Reagents - why is there a shortage? Why has this problem not been sorted out? There must be money to be made through fixing it? 
 

Boris - it’s not our fault, Briton’s love freedom, in fact all the improvements in Britain over the centuries have come from .... Britain. That’s why we have to bring out the army to help the police and fine everybody. What a great speech .....
 

p.s. you can’t put a few thousand people in a football stadium, but you can keep cinemas open. 

When someone is running the country who hasn't the ability and is only in the job because of Brexit, then the mess gets worse exponentially by the wrong decisions he makes.

Blame the public, blame Labour and blame bad luck. It is not his fault. I hope he remembers to take his sincerity pill.

I am positive he is being dramatic for one of two reasons. Either the first wave was worse than published or the testing system has completely broken down.

 

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3 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Better not be a shortage of them in a month's time when supplies start to run out after panic buying.

Might as well chuck ourselves off Hells Mouth😭

Still getting mine by post, 10 at a time, will have to make sure I heat them ...... really hot😉

Edited by Van wink

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Listening to Boris at his 8pm address, I wish he could cut out the waffle and get to the point, a few PowerPoint bullet-points would have been quicker and clearer.

A staggering level of fluff.

Edited by Icecream Snow

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9 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

Listening to Boris at his 8pm address, I wish he could cut out the waffle and get to the point, a few PowerPoint bullet-points would have been quicker and clearer.

A staggering level of fluff.

Don't think he has a clue what the point actually is, staggeringly incompetent and a complete embarassment to be British when we have a complete idiot running the country in the greatest crisis most of us have ever experienced.

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It was a really weird address to the country including the following near the start of his speech...

"The iron laws of geometrical progression are shouting at us..."

 

I do love a simple message.

  • Haha 3

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10 minutes ago, sonyc said:

It was a really weird address to the country including the following near the start of his speech...

"The iron laws of geometrical progression are shouting at us..."

 

I do love a simple message.

I think the simple message that he was desperately trying to sell was that none of this was his fault and in that, as in pretty much everything else he's attempted this year, he failed dismally.

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22 minutes ago, sonyc said:

It was a really weird address to the country including the following near the start of his speech...

"The iron laws of geometrical progression are shouting at us..."

 

I do love a simple message.

I’m not sure if anyone writes his speeches or if they just give him a general topic and a list of random phrases they bet him he can’t shoehorn into a sentence. 
 

By far the worst though was “this stuff”. The Prime Minister of the UK in a national TV broadcast during the biggest pandemic of the century, talking about some “stuff”. 

Edited by Aggy

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6 hours ago, Aggy said:

No need for making it simpler. It’s what I’ve been saying to you all morning. Glad we now agree!

So deluded, but if that keeps you happy so be it. We certainly don't agree and the fact that you might think that demonstrates your lack of understanding. I understand the statistics you don't . The NHS accept these stats, the government accept these stats but you don't (perhaps you might think about that).

Edited by horsefly
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57 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I think the simple message that he was desperately trying to sell was that none of this was his fault and in that, as in pretty much everything else he's attempted this year, he failed dismally.

It was so odd....a bit like someone trying to reclaim a part of himself ...attempting to find his usual swagger.

But ....in the context of a message to the nation which really needed to be so concise and clear and I think it fell someway short.

It was different in its tone to some of his previous addresses .....impressionist like an artist. As I said 'weird'.

I think he must desperately hope this thing doesn't grow exponentially (like we all do) but especially because I believe his political capital within his own party might be near running out.

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1 hour ago, Aggy said:

I’m not sure if anyone writes his speeches or if they just give him a general topic and a list of random phrases they bet him he can’t shoehorn into a sentence. 
 

By far the worst though was “this stuff”. The Prime Minister of the UK in a national TV broadcast during the biggest pandemic of the century, talking about some “stuff”. 

Well Crace might well agree with you....here's his take on it all:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/22/its-boristime-v-coronatime-and-theres-only-ever-one-winner?

 

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12 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Blame the public, blame Labour and blame bad luck. It is not his fault. I hope he remembers to take his sincerity pill.

I'm not sure if I've missed the sarcasm in this - but if it's sincere I'm sorry, it's absolutely Boris Johnson's fault.

I wholeheartedly acknowledge that Brexit is the reason we have Boris Johnson as PM, and that the public, labour and bad luck all have played their parts in that little omnishambles. But allowing Boris a literal get out of jail card for being elected to deliver Brexit and not this is just wrong.

The list of failings managed by this government during this crisis is massive. Lockdown was brought in far, far too late. The Cheltenham festival and Liverpool v Madrid matches taking place were absolute jokes of decisions. There's plenty of scientific evidence which suggests even a week or two earlier would have saved thousands of lives.

Then we have PPE. Hundreds of thousands of units of PPE purchased which were found absolutely useless. Care homes, hospices, ambulance trusts and others crying out for it for weeks on end. 

Test and trace. Good grief, these words should follow this government around as a new by word for utter failure. It's the one thing that can really help us right now, the ONE thing this government should be obliged to get right above almost everything else (2nd only to funding and supporting the NHS, IMO). I heard a story from a Dad on Radio 5 Live of his frustrations trying to get a test for his young son. He's based in London. The test he was offered was in Aberdeen. Scandalous. 

Then there's 3 million self employed people entirely overlooked for financial assistance, masks - went from no, don't wear them, to advise maybe you should when you can't socially distance to now yes wear them everywhere indoors - and now this latest set of measures which will pretty much ruin anyone in the night time economy. I'm not sure what good stopping people going out after 10 is going to do for anyone. 

Bit of a rant this, even for me. Apologies everyone.

Edited by Terminally Yellow
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I wonder what the Spanish PM is saying now.  241 deaths recorded in one day and nearly 11,000 recorded infections. 

We are going either there or into full lockdown where we are going if we don't start taking better care again.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

I'm not sure if I've missed the sarcasm in this - but if it's sincere I'm sorry, it's absolutely Boris Johnson's fault.

I wholeheartedly acknowledge that Brexit is the reason we have Boris Johnson as PM, and that the public, labour and bad luck all have played their parts in that little omnishambles. But allowing Boris a literal get out of jail card for being elected to deliver Brexit and not this is just wrong.

The list of failings managed by this government during this crisis is massive. Lockdown was brought in far, far too late. The Cheltenham festival and Liverpool v Madrid matches taking place were absolute jokes of decisions. There's plenty of scientific evidence which suggests even a week or two earlier would have saved thousands of lives.

Then we have PPE. Hundreds of thousands of units of PPE purchased which were found absolutely useless. Care homes, hospices, ambulance trusts and others crying out for it for weeks on end. 

Test and trace. Good grief, these words should follow this government around as a new by word for utter failure. It's the one thing that can really help us right now, the ONE thing this government should be obliged to get right above almost everything else (2nd only to funding and supporting the NHS, IMO). I heard a story from a Dad on Radio 5 Live of his frustrations trying to get a test for his young son. He's based in London. The test he was offered was in Aberdeen. Scandalous. 

Then there's 3 million self employed people entirely overlooked for financial advice and assistance, masks - went from no, don't wear them, to advise maybe you should when you can't socially distance to now yes wear them everywhere indoors - and now this latest set of measures which will pretty much ruin anyone in the night time economy. I'm not sure what good stopping people going out after 10 is going to do to anyone. 

Bit of a rant this, even for me. Apologies everyone.

Fairly sure KG was indeed being sarcastic,  but can’t argue with any of that!

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"I'm not sure what good stopping people going out after 10 is going to do to anyone"

@Terminally Yellow.....the virus is nocturnal....didn't you know?

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8 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I wonder what the Spanish PM is saying now.  241 deaths recorded in one day and nearly 11,000 recorded infections. 

We are going either there or into full lockdown where we are going if we don't start taking better care again.

 

 

We badly need T & T to really work BB. At the moment a good number are not being contacted. Decent story about how local lockdowns have not worked very well in the online Guardian talks through some of the challenges of you're interested.

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3 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Must have missed the memo.

Excuse my sarcasm TY. Trying to cheer you up a little  that's all.

Edited by sonyc

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9 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Excuse my sarcasm TY. Trying to cheer you up a little  that's all.

Sorry if you thought I was having a go; I really wasn't! I was responding to sarcasm with sarcasm 🙂 All good in the hood my friend.

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51 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I wonder what the Spanish PM is saying now.  241 deaths recorded in one day and nearly 11,000 recorded infections. 

We are going either there or into full lockdown where we are going if we don't start taking better care again.

 

 

This is entirely my worry. I really hope these new restrictions work but frankly I'm not hopeful. Too many people too relaxed or not overly concerned or it won't be them (or their extended family). When it does hit it will be 6 weeks too late.

By the way - just saw a quarter of Upper 6th form Norwich School now having to isolate. You can run but can't hide.

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12 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

This is entirely my worry. I really hope these new restrictions work but frankly I'm not hopeful. Too many people too relaxed or not overly concerned or it won't be them (or their extended family). When it does hit it will be 6 weeks too late.

By the way - just saw a quarter of Upper 6th form Norwich School now having to isolate. You can run but can't hide.

We need to realise that if we want to have liberty and to keep people alive we must be sensible, restrict ourselves and play by the rules.  If we don't the choice for government is stark, deaths or redundancies.  It was good to have a reminder today but if we need a second the gloves must come off again.

And I say this as an optimist.  I've always thought that a degree of spread is not necessarily a bad thing, that in the long run we'll fair no worse and no better than comparable countries or areas and that lockdown was never going to be a magic bullet.

 

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