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ooh ......................go on

take one of those photos like you did when you were posting as bagster... a builder with a C5, parked up in the drive of a small bungalow\

and someone who has taken so much trouble and time to post so many lies about would not resist this chance, surely ?

 

ps how come the email sent to you is part of a 2013 contract for a different job ?

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7 minutes ago, Bill said:

 

ps how come the email sent to you is part of a 2013 contract for a different job ?

Billy, I posted a small section of a new contract I was sent, I did that genuinely as thought others may be interested to see how T and T is changing. 
As for your question, I have no idea why they have used the same phrase that they used in other contracts, other than the very obvious observation that contracts are not written from scratch each time, and that HR use standard phrases that may appear in many contracts. 

 

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23 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I could blow your claims out of the water any time I choose Billy, but you’re not worth it and don’t deserve it 👍

Then please do, as I am sure there are those who would love to see this - as well as the contract moving you from working for Serco to the NHS.

Or why are the NHS asking you, alone, to be ready to move to anywhere in the country... when the whole idea is for the test and trace to be done locally.

There are a couple of other things, but they can wait until we have your 'evidence' blowing me out of the water

Let's just hope it is bit more substantial than your never seen 'evidence' of my supposed stealing £1000 from my local British Legion. But I don't doubt if you show the same persistence in spreading that smear, I am sure you can cobble together something that you think people will swallow

Caution - I would pay heed to Swindon's loss, Any barrister will tell you they don't ask a question they do not already know the answer to. and although I am nowhere near those heights I do not engage in matters that I do not already know a considerable lot about.

An essential practice I would advise.

I am off out, so I shall pop back tomorrow,

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Bill said:

Then please do, as I am sure there are those who would love to see this - as well as the contract moving you from working for Serco to the NHS.

Or why are the NHS asking you, alone, to be ready to move to anywhere in the country... when the whole idea is for the test and trace to be done locally.

There are a couple of other things, but they can wait until we have your 'evidence' blowing me out of the water

Let's just hope it is bit more substantial than your never seen 'evidence' of my supposed stealing £1000 from my local British Legion. But I don't doubt if you show the same persistence in spreading that smear, I am sure you can cobble together something that you think people will swallow

Caution - I would pay heed to Swindon's loss, Any barrister will tell you they don't ask a question they do not already know the answer to. and although I am nowhere near those heights I do not engage in matters that I do not already know a considerable lot about.

An essential practice I would advise.

I am off out, so I shall pop back tomorrow,

Para 1 ....incorrect Billy........”I do not engage in matters that I do not already know a considerable lot about” 😂.......good start👍

Edited by Van wink

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2 hours ago, ricardo said:

The 28 day rule is the international standard. 

I don't doubt that (although i understand spain may have a different regime), just doesn't seem right to me.  That's why I said we should consider both ways of measuring.

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Posted (edited)

I guess nobody will be traveling to the US anytime soon then?  Cases per 100,000 

Chart 1 is Log Scale - maybe doesn't look so bad?    Chart 2 Lin Scale - what on earth? 

p.s. the US rate is falling in part because the testing is falling off too - see Chart 3

US v Europe 1.jpg

US v Europe 2.jpg

Testing 2.jpg

Edited by Surfer

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14 hours ago, T said:

I expect Germany benefits from more ICU specialists so not just Ventilators but specialists where as UK it was all hands to the deck. A mixture of prudent culture to risk, more effective mix of public and private healthcare and more localised control. 
 

However you look at it UK has one of the worst health and economic responses and that urgently needs to be analysed and addressed rather than ignored denied and deflected from. The UK appears to have fundamental structural problems that need to be addressed. 

I dont think its got much at all to do with hospitals to be honest. I'd be interested to know what you are basing the idea that Germany's comparatively successful case/death ratio is due to clinical intervention is based on as its quite damming on the NHS and the way we do things here 

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16 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I dont think its got much at all to do with hospitals to be honest. I'd be interested to know what you are basing the idea that Germany's comparatively successful case/death ratio is due to clinical intervention is based on as its quite damming on the NHS and the way we do things here 

I doubt it’s clinical interventions, more likely the vulnerability of the infected population.

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23 hours ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

We have testing at the border for tourists here, though it's not infallible 

Icelanders and residents need to  test  at the border, observe special measures for a few days, then test again. That's not infallible either 

I don't think anything will be 100% foolproof until we get a vaccine, or the virus hopefully weakens 

Jæja!

That post has not aged well at all. I guess it shows how quickly things change in these strange times 

New rules

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2 hours ago, Bill said:

 nor sad (comedy writer)

 

Really, what a cool sounding job.  Anything we might have heard of?

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I dont think its got much at all to do with hospitals to be honest. I'd be interested to know what you are basing the idea that Germany's comparatively successful case/death ratio is due to clinical intervention is based on as its quite damming on the NHS and the way we do things here 

I don't think it is damming the NHS in the clinical sense at all - the two very clear and, I would suggest, significant differences  between the way health care is organised and delivered in Germany as oppsoed to the UK is firstly the funding and level of resources is significantly greater in Germany, and secondly the health service in Germany is much more decentralised and regionally accountable in complete contrast to the unaccountable monolith run by the control freaks in Westminister.

I think the clinical staff in the theatres and the wards of the NHS are the equal of Germany and anywhere else in the world, and better than most. But the management of the NHS, starting at the very top with the politicians in Westminister, down through NHS England to the unaccountable Trusts is generally extremely poor. Doubtless some are better than others but the tone is set from the top and we have an NHS severely weakened by ten years of incompetent and under-funded governance, and the results have been obvious for some time and very tragically highlighted by this virus.

Edited by Creative Midfielder

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5 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I don't think it is damming the NHS in the clinical sense at all - the two very clear and, I would suggest, significant differences  between the way health care is organised and delivered in Germany as oppsoed to the UK is firstly the funding and level of resources is significantly greater in Germany, and secondly the health service in Germany is much more decentralised and regionally accountable in complete contrast to the unaccountable monolith run by the control freaks in Westminister.

I think the clinical staff in the theatres and the wards of the NHS are the equal of Germany and anywhere else in the world, and better than most. But the management of the NHS, starting at the very top with the politicians in Westminister, down through NHS England to the unaccountable Trusts is generally extremely poor. Doubtless some are better than others but the tone is set from the top and we have an NHS severely weakened by ten years of incompetent and under-funded governance, and the results have been obvious for some time and very tragically highlighted by this virus.

I suspect a lot of that is correct. The NHS has the strengths and weaknesses of a sprawling organisation.

But, I think that very little of what is being seen can be explained by what is happening in a clinical environment.  This is a public health emergency, not a medical one

 

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4 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I suspect a lot of that is correct. The NHS has the strengths and weaknesses of a sprawling organisation.

But, I think that very little of what is being seen can be explained by what is happening in a clinical environment.  This is a public health emergency, not a medical one

 

I think it is both in reality, and unfortunately the public health aspect which I agree is extremely important and is actually more locally based than the NHS but the public health services have both suffered far greater resource cuts than the NHS itself and when we needed them the most the control freaks in Westminister sidelined our local public health bodies in favour of the usual suspects in the private sector who had neither the competance or experience to deliver the public health outcomes we so desperately need. Seems as though they are finally beginning to backtrack on this a bit now but as so much of the Government's response to this crisis it is too little and far too late.

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2 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

we have an NHS severely weakened by ten years of incompetent and under-funded governance

The NHS underfunded?

🤪

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Posted (edited)

I don't know how they can control it but Northern Territories in Australia is closing its borders for another 18 months.

Australia is a Commonwealth of course so it will be interesting to see what the other states do.

Edited by keelansgrandad

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16 hours ago, Bill said:

ooh ......................go on

take one of those photos like you did when you were posting as bagster... a builder with a C5, parked up in the drive of a small bungalow\

and someone who has taken so much trouble and time to post so many lies about would not resist this chance, surely ?

Tell us why contract would require you to be moved around the country (UK), when the new system merely talks of

"If the dedicated national team cannot make contact with a resident within a set period of time, the local public health officials can use the data provided by NHS Test and Trace to follow up, which in some pilot areas has involved local authority teams and voluntary partners visiting people at home."

nothing whatsoever about those using a phone to be moved to another part of the country. - why would they when you think of the cost ?

the reality is that yet again you have lied, as so often, not expecting anyone to either remember or check up

of course you could blow me out of the water.................. or simply use BB or RTB to distract, as usual

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16 hours ago, Van wink said:

Para 1 ....incorrect Billy........”I do not engage in matters that I do not already know a considerable lot about” 😂.......good start👍

So as you know “a considerable amount” about this Bill, odd that the first thing you say is complete rubbish. 
I do in fact know “ a considerable amount” from first hand experience, now off you go and do a bit more Googling, only next time use some better sources and you might get something right. Pop in later and update me there’s a good chap 😘

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Posted (edited)

The 'considerable amount' only seems so when compared to your pitiful attempts to distract from your obvious lie.

All I have done is put up evidence to question your claims

Now, why not put up evidence to back your claims ?

As I can assure you were the roles reversed I would have put up the required evidence long ago

So the question will remain with others, why not ?

Edited by Bill

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Last weeks antibody random sampling figures -

6% Nationally, 13% in London.

As I'm not one for wishful thinking or unproven significant scientific additional immunity mechanisms - these numbers at face value don't lend any credence to herd immunity ideas and leaves us wide open to a resurgence of the virus ... indeed the slow but relentless uptick in new cases tends to support that view.

Now, it may be true that  many of the low hanging fruit (i.e. care homes) may have already had their dose and possibly the virus is weakening but I very much suspect the relaxation in social distancing is about to come back and bite us.

That said I would agree schools back but shut the rest ... or accept the consequences eyes open.

 

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3 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Last weeks antibody random sampling figures -

6% Nationally, 13% in London.

As I'm not one for wishful thinking or unproven significant scientific additional immunity mechanisms - these numbers at face value don't lend any credence to herd immunity ideas and leaves us wide open to a resurgence of the virus ... indeed the slow but relentless uptick in new cases tends to support that view.

Now, it may be true that  many of the low hanging fruit (i.e. care homes) may have already had their dose and possibly the virus is weakening but I very much suspect the relaxation in social distancing is about to come back and bite us.

That said I would agree schools back but shut the rest ... or accept the consequences eyes open.

 

Yesterday’s figures were alarming as we seem to be following curves in Spain and France: as we did at the beginning. I don’t see that we are doing anything significantly different from Spain and France to prevent a similar trajectory.

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1 minute ago, Van wink said:

Yesterday’s figures were alarming as we seem to be following curves in Spain and France: as we did at the beginning. I don’t see that we are doing anything significantly different from Spain and France to prevent a similar trajectory.

Indeed, we are still continuing to relax restrictions ostrich like.

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22 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Last weeks antibody random sampling figures -

6% Nationally, 13% in London.

As I'm not one for wishful thinking or unproven significant scientific additional immunity mechanisms - these numbers at face value don't lend any credence to herd immunity ideas and leaves us wide open to a resurgence of the virus ... indeed the slow but relentless uptick in new cases tends to support that view.

Now, it may be true that  many of the low hanging fruit (i.e. care homes) may have already had their dose and possibly the virus is weakening but I very much suspect the relaxation in social distancing is about to come back and bite us.

That said I would agree schools back but shut the rest ... or accept the consequences eyes open.

 

I would be very interested in the research that must be happening on the proportion of confirmed cases that do not result in detectable antibody levels but nontheless confer immunity on the individual.  

At the moment we are forced to accept 6% and 13% but we've long suspected that true rates of immunity are much higher.  Surely some estimation of this can be put forward by now.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I would be very interested in the research that must be happening on the proportion of confirmed cases that do not result in detectable antibody levels but nontheless confer immunity on the individual.  

At the moment we are forced to accept 6% and 13% but we've long suspected that true rates of immunity are much higher.  Surely some estimation of this can be put forward by now.

this might be of interest

edit - also this

Edited by How I Wrote Elastic Man

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6 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Thanks.  Obviously a limited study but suggests that one in ten infections do not create a detectable antibody response at all.  

I guess though we also need to know how the antobody surveys are being done and at what point. Its one thing saying that 90% of people generate an antibody response.  Its potentially quite another to test them at a time when this response is likely to be detected

 

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Thanks Elastic.

So only about 1 in 10 have Covid but no antibodies  - in-fact in the realms of false positives/negatives but in any event largely insignificant - plus we don't know how long any such AB  immunity will last.

Any T cell immunity (as above)  and similar is however ongoing research.

Just saw BB come to the same facts.

I think my point about limited to zero current herd (6 or 6.6% who a cares) immunity stands.

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4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

I think my point about limited to zero current herd (6 or 6.6% who a cares) immunity stands.

I'd agree with that.  We have to take the pessimistic view until the researxh catches up.   

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8 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I'd agree with that.  We have to take the pessimistic view until the researxh catches up.   

That's really my point - I will quite happily accept say 20% of the population may have some unknown immunity (genetic, previous diseases - even a small % were genetically resilient to the bubonic plague in medieval times etc)  but I suspect the vast majority of us have little to no immunity. The only question would be how bad will we get it!

Those that have already 'caught' it may be largely in jobs, life-styles that left them particularly exposed i.e. in the NHS, care homes, high density multi generational living  - those with 'bohemian' lifestyles as well or just plain unlucky. For the rest of us it may just be our good fortune it has, as yet, not found us yet and perhaps it may also be quite fragile and easily stopped with limited social distancing measures. 

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