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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, sonyc said:

A bit like rearranging deckchairs though isn't it? It's excess deaths that will matter. Of course it's useful that countries measure the same but there's a phrase isn't there?...'comparisons are odious'.

When you are dealing with a pandemic comparisons are essential, but the value of them is determined by the quality and standardisation of the data.Excess deaths will be very important but the more you can drill down into the data the better it is

Edited by Van wink

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11 minutes ago, Van wink said:

If I was creating a list of which countries to apply quarantine to the U.K. would be on it with the number you have.

You mean Iceland would be on the list?

We are on a few others, the Baltic countries all require quarantine from Iceland and Norway added us to their red list the last day or so

Our incidence rate is above 20 per 100,000, which is what some countries look at when making these decisions 

Very difficult to make a genuine comparison of stats with our small population 

Here is the latest data, in English

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7 minutes ago, Van wink said:

The science is evolving sonyc, hence the need for good data

poor hand crank

no vaccine will be found by spending time counting deaths - that is not the data required

that is merely righties trying to exonerate the hapless government from the blame of so many deaths

let's lop of 20 people from the number killed by Harold Shipman, and he won't seem so bad

what obnoxious sickos these righty(s) are

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Posted (edited)

I'm probably more cynical on the whole than I used to be VW. An organisation I used to work for always talked up being evidenced based, using numbers for any decision (and its product was essentially people). It lost some of its heart and soul in the process, it's care, it's avowed values. Data is one thing (good too) but it's how it is used and interpreted that is the crux.

Same with all governments (especially this one). The more you hear the words the less they convince. Not that you'd be too impressed but I'm more with Bill about figures.

Overall, I'm probably more persuaded by 'the art than the science' if you get my drift. And I will be in the minority but it's what forms my personal politics (the how, the meaning etc). It's why too I am always interested in getting alternative views that challenge this thinking. Because I'm not saying my way of looking at the world is right, just that it tends to be my way. Will shut up about it now because I will get too deep into it!

Edited by sonyc

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18 minutes ago, Van wink said:

It’s odd that the virtue signallers are so inclined to spread the infection. 

Not the virtue signallers again?! They are always causing trouble with their signalling and virtueing. Scumbags. 

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1 minute ago, Herman said:

Not the virtue signallers again?! They are always causing trouble with their signalling and virtueing. Scumbags. 

I did wonder whether I was a virtual signaller seeing the comment! If so I'm not sure what I'm signalling of any good!

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2 minutes ago, Bill said:

poor hand crank

no vaccine will be found by spending time counting deaths - that is not the data required

 

Well done Billy👍

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Just now, Herman said:

Not the virtue signallers again?! They are always causing trouble with their signalling and virtueing. Scumbags. 

remoaners, then lily livered pinkos, sneering metropolitan elite

now where have I heard that sort of repetitive bleat that excuses the bleater from formulating an opinion

" four legs good.... baa baa "

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2 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I did wonder whether I was a virtual signaller seeing the comment! If so I'm not sure what I'm signalling of any good!

I think not.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Well done Billy👍

where's RTB ?

or even bagster ?

ps  have you kept all those login details from former names you used, or is it just the recent ones

perhaps that was why you were selected for 'track and trace'

must have been a hefty phone bill calling from France

 

or what that another one like Harlow, your non appearance at the war memorial, not knowing the A11 was dualled, your being a senior manager at the NHS.... etc.... and so many other little give aways

whatever it is, do make sure you don't drop that book full of names and logins on your toe...ouch

au revoir, M Barantineur

Edited by Bill
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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Bill said:

remoaners, then lily livered pinkos, sneering metropolitan elite

now where have I heard that sort of repetitive bleat that excuses the bleater from formulating an opinion

" four legs good.... baa baa "

Put the mask on Billy. Then tell us how virtuous you are👍

Edited by Van wink

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I think not.

Had to look up what the term really meant...and I think actually on quite a bit of reflection ... I do express very openly my moral values (and have done tonight in a post, trying to explain myself). So I reckon I'm guilty of it! Perhaps it's a wonderful Freudian slip or quite a chiding remark. Either way, some grudging respect due 😉 (now having to look up neologism).

 

From Wikipedia...

Virtue signalling is a pejorative neologism for the conspicuous expression of moral values

 

 

 

Edited by sonyc
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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, sonyc said:

   The remark wasn’t aimed at you as I said earlier, which you saw.

As for your post about interpretation, the art and the science, I concur. 

Epidemiology however is a numbers based science and if we are going to value epidemiological practice then we surely want the quality of the information it is based on to be as good as it can be.As for how the data is used that’s another matter, but at least let’s get the data as good as we can.

 

 

Edited by Van wink

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1 hour ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

You mean Iceland would be on the list?

We are on a few others, the Baltic countries all require quarantine from Iceland and Norway added us to their red list the last day or so

Our incidence rate is above 20 per 100,000, which is what some countries look at when making these decisions 

Very difficult to make a genuine comparison of stats with our small population 

Here is the latest data, in English

Small numbers make it very difficult, agreed. What I meant was you should consider whether you should quarantine people returning from UK.

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10 hours ago, Van wink said:

Takes 5000 deaths off the U.K.Covid death figures,according to the Telegraph

 

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2 hours ago, Herman said:

 

True but completely misses the point as far as I’m concerned and in relation to the point I was making. For those purposes it wouldn’t have mattered if the recorded numbers went up or down, the important point is that they are standardised and hence more valuable from a research perspective.

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Here is the revised chart.

Note zero death days begin mid July.

image.png.270dd9a9577e80d2d879a65c17f7d796.png

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1 minute ago, ricardo said:

Here is the revised chart.

Note zero death days begin mid July.

image.png.270dd9a9577e80d2d879a65c17f7d796.png

Which explains the dramatic difference with Scotland’s death numbers towards the tail of the graph.

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Brother in law lives in Spain and had a triple bypass in hospital in Alicante on Monday.

Today he has been told the nose sample he had has tested positive for Covid 19.

Sister in law was allowed in after the op and was staying in a hotel asthey live in Jalon.

She has been sent home to isolate but is worried she brought it into the hospital.

So far my brother in law is asymptomatic, the doctors assume his breathing is down to the operation.

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48 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Brother in law lives in Spain and had a triple bypass in hospital in Alicante on Monday.

Today he has been told the nose sample he had has tested positive for Covid 19.

Sister in law was allowed in after the op and was staying in a hotel asthey live in Jalon.

She has been sent home to isolate but is worried she brought it into the hospital.

So far my brother in law is asymptomatic, the doctors assume his breathing is down to the operation.

Worrying situation KG, best wishes. 

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Thanks chaps.

Still puzzling why they allowed Sister in law to kiss him. Don't know the full details and exactly what Spanish protocols are but surely contact should have been prohibited?

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1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

Thanks chaps.

Still puzzling why they allowed Sister in law to kiss him. Don't know the full details and exactly what Spanish protocols are but surely contact should have been prohibited?

She may have been the source of his infection but she shouldn’t beat herself up over it, it sounds as if the infection control protocols are pretty weak, in those  circumstances there were probably many sources for his infection. It may of course be a false positive.

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9 hours ago, Van wink said:

True but completely misses the point as far as I’m concerned and in relation to the point I was making. For those purposes it wouldn’t have mattered if the recorded numbers went up or down, the important point is that they are standardised and hence more valuable from a research perspective.

if a nerdish fascination with numbers can be called 'valuable'/

The real questions that need to be addressed, and not distracted from witless guff about 'data', is why the UK had such a high number of deaths. What can be learnt from those mistakes and how much was wilful negligence.

As these unfortunates are dead I doubt they can offer up any help given their corpses will have been disposed of.

The focus should be on the cause, not righties trying to excuse their 'betters'.

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https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200812-exponential-growth-bias-the-numerical-error-behind-covid-19
 

Merkel explained this very simply and clearly at the start because she was intelligent enough to understand it. Expertise does matter. Instead the UK selected its leadership based on nationalistic jingoism rather than intelligence   You make your choices and you end up with one of the worst death records in the world. Their supporters were repeatedly  warned but stubbornly  insisted they knew better than experts. They don’t and won’t learn while they remain in a state of denial which given the damage they have caused is understandable. 

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No Covid patients in any of Norfolks hospitals for last seven days.

Only eleven patients in the whole of Norfolk, Suffolk and Essex.

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, ricardo said:

No Covid patients in any of Norfolks hospitals for last seven days.

Only eleven patients in the whole of Norfolk, Suffolk and Essex.

Good news for Norfolk.

As an aside Tier 3 contact tracers are having their numbers reduced by 6000, these are not NHS employees. I’m tier two, NHS Bank, and we are going to be asked to sign a new contract before being allowed to continue, will be interested to see the new terms.

Having now seen them it looks as if amongst many things it is changing terms to allow for working with local public health teams as well as working from home

 

“5. Place of Work

 

5.1. Whilst working with NHSP, your place of work will vary depending on the work offered and accepted. Your place of work may be any location of any Trust or any NHSP base you agree to work for. No allowance will be granted to you for any expenses or time incurred in travelling to and from the place of work allocated to you.

 

5.2. You will be required to comply with the applicable local policies of each Trust you work with.“

Edited by Van wink

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16 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Good news for Norfolk.

As an aside Tier 3 contact tracers are having their numbers reduced by 6000, these are not NHS employees. I’m tier two, NHS Bank, and we are going to be asked to sign a new contract before being allowed to continue, will be interested to see the new terms.

Lets hope you continue to have very little to do. I suspect the influx of holidaymakers at the major resorts may yet cause an uptick. 

The uptick within Europe continues to be a concern.

 

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