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31 minutes ago, Herman said:

Why is Sweden still being lauded as an example to follow? 

I'm not talking about their decision to impose only light measures at the start.  The wisdom of that decision will be known only after the vaccine has had the desired effect.

However, we would be foolish not to look at what is going on elsewhere and the Swedes are now in a situation where cases and deaths are falling whilst almost everywhere else in Europe the virus is progressing. We need to be asking what they are doing and what they have done.

 

 

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1 hour ago, ricardo said:

They followed a different path, no lockdown, no school closures etc, went for herd immunity. They were heavily criticised early on but now seem to be the poster boys.

Those who locked down quickly had fewer early caualties but now face more problems when it is eased ( Australia etc).

Germany 1200 new cases yesterday, Spain 1500. 

 

 

 

This is a fascinating study atm,  there is no right or wrong and as has been said many times success or failure needs to be judged when it’s all over. If a successful  vaccine is found then I can only assume that those countries like NZ who were able to pretty much wipe the virus out, although very vulnerable atm will be saved by the vaccine and overall will have minimal deaths compared to the likes of the U.K. If the vaccine is slow to come however they could still find themselves in serious trouble.

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Putin has sorted it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8615179/Russia-registers-virus-vaccine-Putins-daughter-given-it.html

Russia announces world's first coronavirus vaccine, which offers 'two years' immunity': Putin declares victory in race to find a jab - despite global scepticism - and reveals one of his own daughters has already been inoculated with 'Sputnik V'

And he's pulled a 'John Gummer' out of the bag. 😀

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The comparison for Sweden is with its nordic neighbours - similar people, mind set and way of life. So far it's not that favourable.

You just can not compare with for instance the UK. What would of happened in the UK if we had carried on with a light touch 'non' lockdown aka 'herd immunity' approach -  perhaps the 250K deaths?  Then again no doubt the economy would be in a better place now. You could argue that Trump went down the 'Swedish' model ....

The issue for Sweden is what will now happen when they return from their summer retreats? Will the supposed 'herd immunity' prove illusionary etc. Will an effective vaccine arrive to make all herd immunity sacrifices worthwhile with hindsight?

Edited by Yellow Fever
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New Zealand quick to act. Four new cases in the same household in Auckland and the place, well over a million population, is locked down until Friday at least.

And she is accused of being too far left!

Edited by keelansgrandad

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33 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

The comparison for Sweden is with its nordic neighbours - similar people, mind set and way of life. So far it's not that favourable.

You just can not compare with for instance the UK. What would of happened in the UK if we had carried on with a light touch 'non' lockdown aka 'herd immunity' approach -  perhaps the 250K deaths?  Then again no doubt the economy would be in a better place now. You could argue that Trump went down the 'Swedish' model ....

The issue for Sweden is what will now happen when they return from their summer retreats? Will the supposed 'herd immunity' prove illusionary etc. Will an effective vaccine arrive to make all herd immunity sacrifices worthwhile with hindsight?

I dont think anyone is drawing conclusions as to what the best approach was just yet.  There is far too little data and far too long to go for that to be done. Equally though they are probably in a much stronger position now than their neighbours.

Hopefully in turns out that hard lockdown is proved in retrospect to have been the best strategy as this means that the global economy was resilient and the vaccine arrived early!

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5 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

I dont think anyone is drawing conclusions as to what the best approach was just yet.  There is far too little data and far too long to go for that to be done. Equally though they are probably in a much stronger position now than their neighbours.

Hopefully in turns out that hard lockdown is proved in retrospect to have been the best strategy as this means that the global economy was resilient and the vaccine arrived early!

Vaccine already arrived in Russia 😁

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16 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Technical difficulties with the Gov.uk site so no update today.

+1148 today (1400 in France & c.3500 Spain)

 

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1 hour ago, sonyc said:

+1148 today (1400 in France & c.3500 Spain)

 

Worrying.  Hopefully though we'll see local lockdoewns being reflected in the stats soon, or do peopl think that the rise is despite these?

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10 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

I'm not talking about their decision to impose only light measures at the start.  The wisdom of that decision will be known only after the vaccine has had the desired effect.

However, we would be foolish not to look at what is going on elsewhere and the Swedes are now in a situation where cases and deaths are falling whilst almost everywhere else in Europe the virus is progressing. We need to be asking what they are doing and what they have done.

 

 

Look what I shared: What we can learn from the Swedish paradox - UnHerd https://unherd.com/2020/08/why-sweden-is-different-when-it-comes-to-covid/

 

A view here on Sweden and their approach / culture. It explains Tegnell well I think.

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3 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Worrying.  Hopefully though we'll see local lockdoewns being reflected in the stats soon, or do peopl think that the rise is despite these?

Oldham muted to being the next to have a more draconian lockdown.

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8 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

Putin has sorted it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8615179/Russia-registers-virus-vaccine-Putins-daughter-given-it.html

Russia announces world's first coronavirus vaccine, which offers 'two years' immunity': Putin declares victory in race to find a jab - despite global scepticism - and reveals one of his own daughters has already been inoculated with 'Sputnik V'

And he's pulled a 'John Gummer' out of the bag. 😀

It has and those that read the and contribute to the ‘ Come On Sarah ‘ will see the Russian vaccine does exactly what we already know Oxfords does, ie you need 2 doses, 75 % of those given the vaccine have a high temperature after the first jab, 78 people were involved in the phase 1 trial and Oxford is partly a vaccine already in use so pretty much proved to be safe. Many reports from the foreign press had Russia’s vaccine as likely to be the Oxford one a couple of weeks ago. This is the U.K. press catching up with 2 week old news.

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11 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Oldham muted to being the next to have a more draconian lockdown.

Yep. Today’s figures looking a bit grim.

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8 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

New Zealand quick to act. Four new cases in the same household in Auckland and the place, well over a million population, is locked down until Friday at least.

And she is accused of being too far left!

Managing a global pandemic doesn't need one to be either left or right, though does it?  Just need to be competent and get on with it, and Jacinda seems to be a very competent lady so kudos to her. Our lot in charge seem to be at the other end of the competence spectrum, so they will get no praise from me.

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30 minutes ago, Well b back said:

It has and those that read the and contribute to the ‘ Come On Sarah ‘ will see the Russian vaccine does exactly what we already know Oxfords does, ie you need 2 doses, 75 % of those given the vaccine have a high temperature after the first jab, 78 people were involved in the phase 1 trial and Oxford is partly a vaccine already in use so pretty much proved to be safe. Many reports from the foreign press had Russia’s vaccine as likely to be the Oxford one a couple of weeks ago. This is the U.K. press catching up with 2 week old news.

Yes, read that post on the V thread. And whatever is involved or how it's come about, you just hope it's successful. I think we may be hearing a lot more about this very soon. Interesting to see how the politics gets played out.

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On 11/08/2020 at 10:46, Herman said:

Why is Sweden still being lauded as an example to follow? 

I told you why back in April and again on pg 332 of this thread:

 

Jools ~ The Swedes are suggesting the virus is no different to any other flu:

https://softwaredevelopmentperestroika.wordpress.com/2020/07/06/sweden-is-back-to-normal/

And as I suggested back in April, it's looking like the government should've gone with their initial plan of 'Herd Immunity'...

Unfortunately, the government were persuaded to lockdown on the strength of a Lefty scientist who threatened half a million Covid 19 deaths by now...

Labour would've done nothing differently --- In fact the consequences would likely have been dire.

 

Your reply to the above:

Herminge ~ Blimey, you write some utter pony at times but this is probably the worst I've seen. A clear refusal to look at the facts to see what actually happened and is happening  👈🙃

Edited by Jools
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19 hours ago, sonyc said:

Look what I shared: What we can learn from the Swedish paradox - UnHerd https://unherd.com/2020/08/why-sweden-is-different-when-it-comes-to-covid/

 

A view here on Sweden and their approach / culture. It explains Tegnell well I think.

Bit late to the party, sonyc 😜

Looks like overactivity on this message board leads to poor concentration...

See Herman, Billock and their alter egos for further proof 😃

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53 minutes ago, Jools said:

Bit late to the party, sonyc 😜

Looks like overactivity on this message board leads to poor concentration...

See Herman, Billock and their alter egos for further proof 😃

I didn't realise I was late to any party Jools. I've been active on this thread since inception. The Swedish article was offered because of discussions and questions between a number of posters (not you I believe) and it offered a view on the cultural domain.

Sweden has been discussed many times on this thread. I don't think anyone knows what the answers are. We may know after a good passage of time once lessons are learned.

In the meantime, I don't feel my concentration levels are waning!

Edited by sonyc

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Counting of deaths in England is finally being brought into line with every other country. People who had a positive test in March and got run over by a bus in July will no longer be counted as Covid deaths. 

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3 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Counting of deaths in England is finally being brought into line with every other country. People who had a positive test in March and got run over by a bus in July will no longer be counted as Covid deaths. 

Again just over a 1000 new cases today.

The reporting by the government seems as changeable as the weather at the moment. Perhaps we should simply use the ONS data in the future. We know for example that excess deaths are currently below the yearly average and have been for some time. 

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4 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Again just over a 1000 new cases today.

The reporting by the government seems as changeable as the weather at the moment. Perhaps we should simply use the ONS data in the future. We know for example that excess deaths are currently below the yearly average and have been for some time. 

PHE numbers have been out of kilter with ONS for several months.

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20 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Counting of deaths in England is finally being brought into line with every other country. People who had a positive test in March and got run over by a bus in July will no longer be counted as Covid deaths. 

Were you listening to More Or Less? A good episode today explaining the different types of counting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000llw2

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5 minutes ago, Herman said:

Were you listening to More Or Less? A good episode today explaining the different types of counting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000llw2

Yes very interesting Herman. It shows that the announcement that Scotland had no deaths for five weeks was playing fast and loose with the truth. It is also further confirmation that the ONS are likely to be the most accurate over time. 

The PHE method would have you as a Covid death if you ever tested positive this year and then lived for another 50 years. Obviously nonsensical.

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33 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Counting of deaths in England is finally being brought into line with every other country. People who had a positive test in March and got run over by a bus in July will no longer be counted as Covid deaths. 

just as the best way to fatten a pig is not to keep weighing it

these silly numbers bear no relation to dealing with the virus - and serve only to over excite the nerds that lurk amongst normal society

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I see that doesn't include the specific numbers, which rather proves my point

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