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4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes. I fear our T&T is already proving inadequate to contain existing outbreaks hence its growing.

Yet I had a four hour T and T trace shift today and not one case. It’s frustrating to say the least.

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1 minute ago, Van wink said:

Yet I had a four hour T and T trace shift today and not one case. It’s frustrating to say the least.

Something seems wrong then. You should be overwhelmed.

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Just now, Van wink said:

Yet I had a four hour T and T trace shift today and not one case. It’s frustrating to say the least.

I have been hearing this in the last couple of days. Some of the stories I heard on radio didn't seem plausible at first, but more and more calls were confirming it wasn't fit for purpose. Loads of volunteers and paid staff sitting around having nothing to do.

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2 minutes ago, Herman said:

I have been hearing this in the last couple of days. Some of the stories I heard on radio didn't seem plausible at first, but more and more calls were confirming it wasn't fit for purpose. Loads of volunteers and paid staff sitting around having nothing to do.

There have been hardly any shifts available for a while, now some have come along but no referrals. It may be that they freed up more resources than they actually needed, I don’t know, but it’s still frustrating.

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I had to visit the cancer clinic at the N&N today for a checkup. When I went in to the clinic wearing my very expensive mask I bought in Japan about 18 months ago I was asked to wear a paper one that they provided. I hope it was not one of the useless batch Truss helped supply.

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The Sunday Times claims these could include giving everyone aged between 50 and 70 a personalised risk rating which could lead to more than the 2.2 million people who were already deemed the most vulnerable being told to remain at home.

What next? Means tested if you can afford to stay at home?

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11 minutes ago, Van wink said:

There have been hardly any shifts available for a while, now some have come along but no referrals. It may be that they freed up more resources than they actually needed, I don’t know, but it’s still frustrating.

This was one of the first I heard and it sounds a bit depressing. We need to get this sorted or else we are stuck in this crap for a long time.

 

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9 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Not Dom again surely 😉 ?

Visited 3 pubs to ensure he was blind drunk.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Van wink said:

Visited 3 pubs to ensure he was blind drunk.

Always helpful to be a little hazy where / when and why.

 I note the lo al police are taking no further action.

Edited by Yellow Fever
Did he test his driving vision too ?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Van wink said:

Yet I had a four hour T and T trace shift today and not one case. It’s frustrating to say the least.

This is because outbreaks are extremely localised. In vast areas of the country Covid wards are essentially empty.

 

https://imgur.com/piOCsuO

Edited by ricardo

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1 minute ago, ricardo said:

This is because outbreaks are extremely localised. In vast areas of the country Covid wards are essentially empty.

 

 

It’s a national system so in theory could be allocated cases from anywhere in England, in addition to local referrals.

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Just now, Van wink said:

It’s a national system so in theory could be allocated cases from anywhere in England, in addition to local referrals.

My understanding is that Preston outbreak is being entirely handled locally.

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

There have been hardly any shifts available for a while, now some have come along but no referrals. It may be that they freed up more resources than they actually needed, I don’t know, but it’s still frustrating.

Ne interested to know how it works.There's about 1000 cases a day.  Does each operator get one of these to follow through on?  If so and if there are more than 1000 operators then operator 1001 onwards will stand idle unless there is sharing down the chain.

As I said earlier the fact that you have done nothing is a cost (bad) but could be a good thing

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4 minutes ago, ricardo said:

My understanding is that Preston outbreak is being entirely handled locally.

Aye, I read a few local councils have set up their own systems, more localised and quicker.

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4 minutes ago, Herman said:

Aye, I read a few local councils have set up their own systems, more localised and quicker.

Yes, a much better idea.

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11 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Ne interested to know how it works.There's about 1000 cases a day.  Does each operator get one of these to follow through on?  If so and if there are more than 1000 operators then operator 1001 onwards will stand idle unless there is sharing down the chain.

As I said earlier the fact that you have done nothing is a cost (bad) but could be a good thing

I’m tier 2 so employed by NHS and payed per shift. Tier 3 I believe are employed by private contractors, the interview Herman posted was tier 3 I suspect.Essentially cases will get escalated  depending on all sorts of factors, eg have there been contacts in a care setting. As cases become more complex they are escalated from tier 3 up to 2 and from 2 to 1. When you log on there may be a case waiting there for you to follow up, the full interview can take up to an hour, if the person wants you to ring back at a later time you could follow that up but if it’s after your shift has finished it will be reallocated. The script you follow and the guidance is updated very regularly and the training materials are pretty good now. 

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1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

The Sunday Times claims these could include giving everyone aged between 50 and 70 a personalised risk rating which could lead to more than the 2.2 million people who were already deemed the most vulnerable being told to remain at home.

What next? Means tested if you can afford to stay at home?

So per your comments this morning, people under 40 who don’t like having their “civil liberties” taken away are selfish and stupid, but you’re against people between the age of 50 and 70 having any “civil liberties” taken away? Let me guess which of those age brackets you fall into 😉

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Herman said:

Aye, I read a few local councils have set up their own systems, more localised and quicker.

There have been cases in Norwich which have been dealt with locally. It’s all a bit of a mish mash. Giving the full data to LA’s is a big step forward but it still depends on local resources being sufficient, which in most places they won’t be. The Guardian article suggested some of the national resource would be made available, which would be essential in most areas.

Edited by Van wink
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46 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I’m tier 2 so employed by NHS and payed per shift. Tier 3 I believe are employed by private contractors, the interview Herman posted was tier 3 I suspect.Essentially cases will get escalated  depending on all sorts of factors, eg have there been contacts in a care setting. As cases become more complex they are escalated from tier 3 up to 2 and from 2 to 1. When you log on there may be a case waiting there for you to follow up, the full interview can take up to an hour, if the person wants you to ring back at a later time you could follow that up but if it’s after your shift has finished it will be reallocated. The script you follow and the guidance is updated very regularly and the training materials are pretty good now. 

So there's a triage after which a case (a person who has tested positive) gets assigned to one of three tiers depending on complexity.  The case remains with an operator at that tier until one of three things happens: they've exhausted the intelligence and called/messaged everyone they can, the shift has ended and the next guy takes over or it becomes too complex for that tier

if it is as described twiddling of thumbs could be either a sign of a poor system or a sign that supply or operators exceeds demand for their services.  Do we have any insight into which it is?

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

So there's a triage after which a case (a person who has tested positive) gets assigned to one of three tiers depending on complexity.  The case remains with an operator at that tier until one of three things happens: they've exhausted the intelligence and called/messaged everyone they can, the shift has ended and the next guy takes over or it becomes too complex for that tier

if it is as described twiddling of thumbs could be either a sign of a poor system or a sign that supply or operators exceeds demand for their services.  Do we have any insight into which it is?

If the numbers with covid are growing I would infer that the current track, trace and isolate hasn't been working effectively. As the numbers grow it only gets more difficult.

Edited by Yellow Fever

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47 minutes ago, Aggy said:

So per your comments this morning, people under 40 who don’t like having their “civil liberties” taken away are selfish and stupid, but you’re against people between the age of 50 and 70 having any “civil liberties” taken away? Let me guess which of those age brackets you fall into 😉

That is a silly thing to post.

My beef with the Government is that they are categorising this crisis.

Nothing is clear about the virus. Statistics can probably prove that the most people who have it shop at Tescos and wear Primark underwear and earn minimum wage.

Until there is certainty, and that is a proven vaccine, we are all in this together. And everyone has to take precautions. It is their duty.

So stopping youngsters crowding pubs and bars irresponsibly is nothing to do with the Government deciding to unilaterally decide who should stay at home. Why 50? Why not 49? Why not BAME if they are apparently more vulnerable? No, because it isn't as simple as that.

Aberdeen is locked down. Fair decision if there is a spike. Yet two players have tested positive and 6 others quarantining from Aberdeen FC but their match on Saturday can go ahead. How responsible governing is that? A bleddy football match, being played closed doors, is going ahead.

What message is that sending?

The Government got it wrong from the start and this is still getting it wrong. If you are vulnerable, you don't need to be told. If you are 70 or over, you don't need to be told. We don't need categorising.

 

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

That is a silly thing to post.

My beef with the Government is that they are categorising this crisis.

Nothing is clear about the virus. Statistics can probably prove that the most people who have it shop at Tescos and wear Primark underwear and earn minimum wage.

Until there is certainty, and that is a proven vaccine, we are all in this together. And everyone has to take precautions. It is their duty.

So stopping youngsters crowding pubs and bars irresponsibly is nothing to do with the Government deciding to unilaterally decide who should stay at home. Why 50? Why not 49? Why not BAME if they are apparently more vulnerable? No, because it isn't as simple as that.

Aberdeen is locked down. Fair decision if there is a spike. Yet two players have tested positive and 6 others quarantining from Aberdeen FC but their match on Saturday can go ahead. How responsible governing is that? A bleddy football match, being played closed doors, is going ahead.

What message is that sending?

The Government got it wrong from the start and this is still getting it wrong. If you are vulnerable, you don't need to be told. If you are 70 or over, you don't need to be told. We don't need categorising.

 

Wasn’t the supposedly proposed government scheme you mentioned about identifying vulnerable people and protecting them? What was the issue with it? 
 

As for not categorising - it’s a national pandemic and one ‘category’ is massively more at risk than another. Why would you not categorise people so you can identify the most at risk and protect them? When/if a vaccine is developed, I hope those categorised as most vulnerable get vaccines before fit and healthy 30 year olds. Or are you suggesting that shouldn’t be the case?

Edited by Aggy

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24 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

If the numbers with covid are growing I would infer that the current track, trace and isolate hasn't been working effectively. As the numbers grow it only gets more difficult.

You are starting with a conclusion and working backwards, which is a bit naughty

I don't disagree with most of your analysis but the specific thing I was enquiring about was whether or not VWs pointless labour was a sign that the system is broken.  I am not sure we have enough data to really tell.

To the more general question on track and trace rising infections is a sign of failure if your expectation was of a panacea.  If not then success or failure is measured not by counting Infections but by estimating how many infections were averted. Quite honestly I don't know how well it is doing as I have no way of making this estimate.

 

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There is no doubt that the UK has failed to deal well with Covid-19. The only debate is why and the sooner that is had the better given this is not going away anytime soon but the UK government even fail to do that. A culture of incompetence. 

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8 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

To the more general question on track and trace rising infections is a sign of failure if your expectation was of a panacea.  If not then success or failure is measured not by counting Infections but by estimating how many infections were averted. Quite honestly I don't know how well it is doing as I have no way of making this estimate.

Success would be if track and trace demonstrably reduced community transmission measured in part through the R rate, enabled the country to get operational and enabled targeted action to deal with outbreaks quickly when they occured.

It has failed on all three counts.

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