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25 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Agree 100% Sonyco , this works from the bottom up and vice versa.At street level  our local councils no longer employ  the  Valley boys, who would spend the year clearing  all the drains and culverts on a country road, trimming hedges  and various small pothole filling.In the year, all jobs were seen to.Things were kept pretty ship shape and the guys had a job for life , council rates ..decent money and a pension. As they reached 65 they were never replaced. Now , every few years some Contrator turns up and does a very rough job , huge culverts, roadside gulleys you could lose a wheel in, Potholes everywhere  cos the drains are only cleared every few years and they charge a fortune due to traffic management regs and various other red tape.  

Likewise they are building very little of true worth and longevity. 

 

Isn't it all a matter of costs though wcc.

The Local Authority would simply not have the spare cash to employ those boys now.

Even before the pandemic, I have had an uncomfortable feeling that, as a nation, we simply don't pay enough tax. Maybe if we want a better, fairer society - we have to pay for it.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

Isn't it all a matter of costs though wcc.

The Local Authority would simply not have the spare cash to employ those boys now.

Even before the pandemic, I have had an uncomfortable feeling that, as a nation, we simply don't pay enough tax. Maybe if we want a better, fairer society - we have to pay for it.

It’s a choice isn’t it. As for local services, I’m out of touch but suspect the council tax cap has been lifted, stand to be corrected if I’m wrong.  But if that’s true it does give us the chance to vote for the level of local services we want which will relate to our Council Tax. Council Tax is ripe for review of course

Edited by Van wink

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11 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Ah well, back on topic. A very encouraging report. I hope that there is more evidence of this.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-virus-idUSKBN2370OQ?taid=5ed3fd86710ac20001b0d575&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

ROME (Reuters) - The new coronavirus is losing its potency and has become much less lethal, a senior Italian doctor said on Sunday.

Would be fantastic news if true.

We had speculated on another thread about the possibility of the virus mutating and becoming weaker. Hopefully that is the case.

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3 minutes ago, Van wink said:

It’s a choice isn’t it. As for local services, I’m out of touch but suspect the council tax cap has been lifted, stand to be corrected if I’m wrong.  But if that’s true it does give us the chance to vote for the level of local services we want which will relate to our Council Tax. Council Tax is ripe for review of course

Yes, I guess at the local elections it would require each party to set out their plans and costings very clearly so that people could make a choice. Unfortunately, I think most people vote for the main party they support without really looking into local issues too much.

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10 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

Yes, I guess at the local elections it would require each party to set out their plans and costings very clearly so that people could make a choice. Unfortunately, I think most people vote for the main party they support without really looking into local issues too much.

That’s where we need to change, Things are far to centralised in the U.K. insofar as choice over local service provision..

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32 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Wrong thread indeed, was only trying to relate this to the role of EHO’s and funding. 
I suspect we may have rubbed shoulders in the past if you worked in Norfolk, not now of course as social distancing would be the norm.😀

All my work has been up north VW (two main roles alongside, 32 and 25 years respectively). Would have been great being back in Norfolk.

May still move back there in the next year.

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32 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

Isn't it all a matter of costs though wcc.

The Local Authority would simply not have the spare cash to employ those boys now.

Even before the pandemic, I have had an uncomfortable feeling that, as a nation, we simply don't pay enough tax. Maybe if we want a better, fairer society - we have to pay for it.

I agree with higher taxes and yet ensuring you get brilliant local services to go with them. I like the idea of Sweden's system (but am no expert on the matter ... therefore the reality may not be what it cracks up to be). They pay high taxes yet with high wages comparatively alongside good public services. If anyone knows more then I'd like to know (alongside their C19 response, just to bring us back on topic 😉).

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

On that analysis the question is how much did the old system budget for contact tracing and how much did PHE budget for at the start of this.   That would answer my question but let's not bother as neither of us can find out the answer eadily as it involves a lot of authorities.

No, let's bother. Turns out that the Tories cut £1billion from the budgets for public health services from 2015 (by which time it had already been cut by 3.9% each year, on year).

Health charities make urgent call for £1 billion a year to reverse cuts to public health funding

Remember Tory cuts cost lives.

Edited by BigFish

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, BigFish said:

No, let's bother. Turns out that the Tories cut £1billion from the budgets for public health services from 2015 (by which time it had already been cut by 3.9% each year, on year).

Health charities make urgent call for £1 billion a year to reverse cuts to public health funding

Remember Tory cuts cost lives.

Which public health services BF, it’s a very wide field ranging from health promotion to infectious disease investigation? In my experience under governments of all colours public health is seen as a Cinderella service, easy to make cuts as there are no immediate obvious effects. Investment in Public health is a long term policy option which no government is keen to invest in because they don’t get the political benefit of immediate returns. This is one of the many reasons why Health should be lifted out of the political to and fro and funded properly with a long term strategic plan.

Edited by Van wink
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Maybe the health service will be funded properly ahead given what has happened. A chance really for a re-set.

Yet, somehow the cynic in me feels worried we go back to square one (or worse if those US sell off stories are true).

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41 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Which public health services BF, it’s a very wide field ranging from health promotion to infectious disease investigation? In my experience under governments of all colours public health is seen as a Cinderella service, easy to make cuts as there are no immediate obvious effects. Investment in Public health is a long term policy option which no government is keen to invest in because they don’t get the political benefit of immediate returns. This is one of the many reasons why Health should be lifted out of the political to and fro and funded properly with a long term strategic plan.

That's a 25%+ cut since 2015/2016 to the total phs budget @Van wink. I can't see how health can be lifted out of the political argument though, but long term stragtegic planning would be a step in the right direction.

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New laws/regulations coming into force.

 

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10 minutes ago, BigFish said:

That's a 25%+ cut since 2015/2016 to the total phs budget @Van wink. I can't see how health can be lifted out of the political argument though, but long term stragtegic planning would be a step in the right direction.

Don’t know where you are getting your figures or info from BF, but for the record and for example the DPH service was transferred from PCG’s back to local government in 2013, you are not in possession of all the facts buddy, believe me it’s a very complex service provision. 

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2 hours ago, sonyc said:

Agree with this strongly M. The Blair/Brown era often felt to me as an extension to Thatcher's market economics too (with obvious tweaks). PFI and performance management regimes abounded. The latter bringing targets and KPI's that were poorly understood and were applied bluntly ...bringing with them the wrong behaviours. And yet we still have these meaningless targets now!

Agree too about long term investment. But I won't stray further (or may get into Brexit territory).

Yea I would never agree they were Blue Labour personally but they definitely jumped in with both feet economically.

I don’t believe in targets personally, I get into trouble at work for saying it. Target driven cultures are stupid IMO, you should just always keep trying to do better. Whether things are improving or getting worse is the only thing we should care about.

Target culture gives us our 100,000 tests by x day bullsh!t we’ve seen through this pandemic. Media and opposition latch onto it and Government refuses to lose face so creatively accounts to show they met it which then becomes an argument. What an example of colossal waste of time, focus and energy.

I really believe in long term investment, I think it’s why I get disillusioned with politics as it’s so short termist. That said my politics are clichedly centrist, I get pulled all over the spectrum depending on the topic. I’m certainly right of Bill which I’m sure would make me a “righty” in his eyes. 

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30 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Don’t know where you are getting your figures or info from BF, but for the record and for example the DPH service was transferred from PCG’s back to local government in 2013, you are not in possession of all the facts buddy, believe me it’s a very complex service provision. 

Don't claim to be an expert, but the Kings Fund is and cover it pretty well.......unless I have missed something?

Health charities make urgent call for £1 billion a year to reverse cuts to public health funding

Local government public health budgets: a time for turning?

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Posted (edited)

They are experts, just beware of oversimplification of what is a very complex system. As I said earlier the preventative aspect of public health has been an easy target under all governments. 

Edited by Van wink

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I have nothing constructive to add to this long-winded thread. Just hope to be the one to nudge it onto page 300. Let's see...

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

Your equating moderate people with the far right, is only further evidence of how extreme you are, and I repeat it’s people like you that made Labour an irrelevance in terms of a prospective governing party

i have been a party member in the past and may well join again if clowns like you are put back where you belong, as an amusing but irrelevant side show.

Another lie

I question your claim to be part of the left - when all evidence points to the opposite

No mention by me of people, or far right - that's just you making up as does the 'resting' BB

Now why not post something to back up your claim about the Guardian, and in particular  the quoted article ?

I suspect, as with your 'mate' you won't. You will simply post up more righty, snide comments.

Whether you fool others is of little consequence - you don't fool me for one second, as your past posts, by whatever name demonstrate. I know exactly where you are coming from.

Johnson - just go

 

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Morning everybody, I'm up and just off to work shortly.

Thought I'd follow paddy's example and try and hit the 300 pages before I go  🙂

 

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8 hours ago, Monty13 said:

 I’m certainly right of Bill which I’m sure would make me a “righty” in his eyes. 

Nope.

You would need to have an almost slavish dedication to bleating out whatever your 'betters' espouse, no matter how obviously absurd it is - or how much it actually goes against your own financial interest,

Other than the gormless righties on here you should have a look on the comments in the Daily Mail. Most are beyond parody.

A place where Cummings was set up be a Remainer media, PPE shortage was caused by Gordon Brown single handedly collapsing the world economy and 'lefty' teachers are now blocking children’s vital education by putting out scare stories about the virus, so they can ignore the lockdown to spend their days quaffing champagne on beaches in Tuscany

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17 minutes ago, Bill said:

Nope.

You would need to have an almost slavish dedication to bleating out whatever your 'betters' espouse, no matter how obviously absurd it is - or how much it actually goes against your own financial interest,

Other than the gormless righties on here you should have a look on the comments in the Daily Mail. Most are beyond parody.

A place where Cummings was set up be a Remainer media, PPE shortage was caused by Gordon Brown single handedly collapsing the world economy and 'lefty' teachers are now blocking children’s vital education by putting out scare stories about the virus, so they can ignore the lockdown to spend their days quaffing champagne on beaches in Tuscany

What do you suggest? ......Gulags?  'Re-education' . ?

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11 hours ago, Mark .Y. said:

Would be fantastic news if true.

We had speculated on another thread about the possibility of the virus mutating and becoming weaker. Hopefully that is the case.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN2370OQ

Looks like Mark's earlier post may have been missed by some. This is from Reuters so I assume it can be trusted. 

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15 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN2370OQ

Looks like Mark's earlier post may have been missed by some. This is from Reuters so I assume it can be trusted. 

That was being reported in the US 4 weeks ago, so it is fairly old news

Examining the rests showed what happened to SARS in 2003

"Scientists have discovered a unique mutation to coronavirus in Arizona - and it's a pattern that they've seen before. 

One of the 382 samples they collected from coronavirus patients in the state was missing a sizeable segment of genetic material. 

In the middle and late stages of the SARS epidemic of 2003, this very same kind of deletion started cropping up in patients around the globe. "

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN2370OQ

Looks like Mark's earlier post may have been missed by some. This is from Reuters so I assume it can be trusted. 

In fairness, somebody else found the original link, may have been sonyc or YF, wasn't me anyway, but always hopeful when news like this turns up

Edited by Mark .Y.
Spelling:(

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Yep, we know the virus will regularly mutate as it moves from person to person, often the mutations are insignificant but on the face of it the Italian story offers some encouragement.

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1 hour ago, Mark .Y. said:

In fairness, somebody else found the original link, may have been sonyc or YF, wasn't me anyway, but always hopeful when news like this turns up

Not me but anyway I would urge much caution on this anecdotal evidence.

It is thought likely that the virus just by natural selection would mutate into one more infectious but less deadly.

However, much like herd immunity, we can grasp at illusionary straws as we are all desperate for a 'get out of gaol free' card. Let's wait for better evidence before getting over optimistic-  and certainly it shouldn't change our policy at this stage at all!

Currently - I'm far far more concerned at the recent relaxation of the lockdown, Cummings 'law' and a laissez faire attitude that will almost guarantee a pickup in infections with inevitable consequences.

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Just out of interest, is there anyone here that has young children , that has sent their kids to school this morning? Or do you know people that have? 
 

If I had any, they certainly would not be going back. 

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