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7 hours ago, ron obvious said:

Having spent a while trawling through the back pages it was closer than I thought. There was Jools, me, RTB, mello, Swindon, Moy, Buh, CM, Fen, Broadstairs, ricardo, Crabby, Wooster for it & PC, Herman, Squit, BF, HHS, City 1st, Shrimper, Surfer,YF, HIWEM,.k.i.o., CM, Daz, TCC, ICS, Apples against LDC & VW were against but thought we should respect the result I seem to remember. If you want I could try to dredge up some more but I'm losing the will to live!

So, 2 against 2 according to Bill  🙂

 

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48 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

I have already been reading stories from Spain and Italy of nurses and doctors saying they are considering their future, they are not sure if they can continue in their jobs.

It seems to happen once the very worst of their work is done, when the pandemic is in full swing they are almost in "automatic" mode and although they are working hours way beyond what they should do, they are able to cope and don't think of themselves. Once that sense of "duty" has gone, they have the time to reflect and look at themselves.

I'm ex-military and what they describe is exactly the same as has happened to many serving and ex-members of the Armed Forces.

Your military analogy is a useful one ...if you've read the Guardian article this morning about NHS 'heroes" it underlines the problem lying ahead, the mental conflict I alluded to.

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38 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

I have already been reading stories from Spain and Italy of nurses and doctors saying they are considering their future, they are not sure if they can continue in their jobs.

It seems to happen once the very worst of their work is done, when the pandemic is in full swing they are almost in "automatic" mode and although they are working hours way beyond what they should do, they are able to cope and don't think of themselves. Once that sense of "duty" has gone, they have the time to reflect and look at themselves.

I'm ex-military and what they describe is exactly the same as has happened to many serving and ex-members of the Armed Forces.

Thats exactly why I bought myself out of the Army  Marko. Once I realised what exactly we were 'fighting ,for'..., that was it for me. I knew a lad on the Sheffield who never recovered from his experiences, I was lucky, a bit older and maybe better prepared mentally, but theres a point when people have to act in their own interests....to protect their own heads. This is the bit that makes actions of the likes of Cummins indefensible, while some sacrifice their lives and mental stability, he wouldnt sacrifice a trip that covered his wifes and mothers birthdays. Thats When people at the Sharp End think 'whats the point?'  .....and if enough think that , then we're in a whole heap of trouble.

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Posted (edited)

This article now won't load (weird). Source True Publica on twitter

 

Edited by sonyc
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7 hours ago, Monty13 said:

Amazingly I was out today in multiple places and saw people social distancing still. I literally queued to get lunch in a 2m spaced collection line, I must have imagined it though because “no one was distancing or anything else” according to you.

I had no idea your powers had advanced to omnipresent, good to know.

It’s almost as if Bill is trying to undermine the Public health advice, appalling.

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Posted (edited)

Perhaps now we might see the DC uproar in context (distraction) and how this links to the virus / pandemic can be seen just a little bit more clearly...

Full list of MPs who voted to lower our food standards during the Covid pandemic

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/full-list-of-mps-who-voted-to-lower-our-food-standards-during-the-covid-pandemic/26/05/

Ps. Should add that this story has been playing out across many media outlets in the last few days (Express, Guardian etc)

 

Edited by sonyc

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Posted (edited)

Not sure if this study has been reported before, apologies if it has.

 
“Coronavirus infection without symptoms might be more common than previously thought, according to a study of people isolated on a cruise ship during the pandemic.

More than 80% of the passengers and crew on the unnamed cruise ship who tested positive for Covid-19 were asymptomatic.

The prevalence of the virus on affected cruise ships is therefore likely to be "significantly underestimated", the study published in the journal Thorax concludes.

Of the 217 passengers and crew on board, 128 tested positive for the virus and of those, 104 patients - 81% - did not have symptoms.

The ship left in mid-March from Argentina for a planned 21-day cruise of the Antarctic. It set sail after the global pandemic was declared by the World Health Organisation (WHO) and two of the study authors happened to be passengers, while a third was the expedition physician.

Passengers and crew were screened for Covid-19 symptoms, body temperatures were taken before boarding, and no-one who had recently travelled through countries with high infection rates at the time such as China and South Korea was allowed on.

The first recorded fever on board the ship was on day eight and the study authors said from that point all passengers were confined to their cabins and surgical masks were issued, while full personal protective equipment was used for any contact with any patients with a fever.

Eight people had to be medically evacuated from the ship and the authors said there had been one death to date.”

Edited by Van wink

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Anybody know what time the Commons Liaison Committee is? 

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1 hour ago, Mark .Y. said:

Thought this made a very good read in case anybody missed it.

The effects the virus can have when it really gets hold of somebody :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52760992

Many thanks for that. A really informative article. It sounds rather like a form of sepsis (as I understand it) in the way the body's immune system goes haywire. Proper science is our only way out of it, & unfortunately proper science takes time as it has to be thorough.

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

The Daily Star has a great front page today. And the Borisgraph is now laying the boot in. 

This is the best front page from a newspaper ever. Never expected it to come from the Daily Star.

The mask is genius.

And we've reached our own 'Don't drink bleach' moment.

image.png.35dacf297545beae1c9360d98caa042d.png

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4 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Anybody know what time the Commons Liaison Committee is? 

It’s 4.00 till 5.30 for those that are interested, BJ to be questioned on pandemic and Dom.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Van wink said:

It’s 4.00 till 5.30 for those that are interested, BJ to be questioned on pandemic and Dom.

The number of questions has been truncated. Access to the party's own members also has been restricted. Scrutiny on both will be quite limited. New chair role (Jenkins) questioned. All these stories have been widely reported in the last few days. Scrutiny will be very minimal I believe. 

Edited by sonyc

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6 minutes ago, Van wink said:

It’s 4.00 till 5.30 for those that are interested, BJ to be questioned on pandemic and Dom.

Lets hope he does better than this.

 

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20 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Perhaps now we might see the DC uproar in context (distraction) and how this links to the virus / pandemic can be seen just a little bit more clearly...

Full list of MPs who voted to lower our food standards during the Covid pandemic

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/full-list-of-mps-who-voted-to-lower-our-food-standards-during-the-covid-pandemic/26/05/

Ps. Should add that this story has been playing out across many media outlets in the last few days (Express, Guardian etc)

 

Bloody hell. What sort of scum votes for worse food for their citizens?

 

That is purely rhetorical. 

 

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8 hours ago, sonyc said:

A possible better scenario predicted for the economy but then the retail sector faces a fight for survival once re-opened.

 

UK recession may not be as bad as feared, says Bank of England economist

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/26/uk-recession-bank-of-england-economist-andy-haldane?

 

Retail has been facing a fight for survival for years. My guess would be that most of those retailers adapting and  modernising before coronavirus will survive it and continue to do so after, but it will speed up the end of any retailers who were already struggling.

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29 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Not sure if this study has been reported before, apologies if it has.

 
“Coronavirus infection without symptoms might be more common than previously thought, according to a study of people isolated on a cruise ship during the pandemic.

More than 80% of the passengers and crew on the unnamed cruise ship who tested positive for Covid-19 were asymptomatic.

The prevalence of the virus on affected cruise ships is therefore likely to be "significantly underestimated", the study published in the journal Thorax concludes.

Of the 217 passengers and crew on board, 128 tested positive for the virus and of those, 104 patients - 81% - did not have symptoms.

The ship left in mid-March from Argentina for a planned 21-day cruise of the Antarctic. It set sail after the global pandemic was declared by the World Health Organisation (WHO) and two of the study authors happened to be passengers, while a third was the expedition physician.

Passengers and crew were screened for Covid-19 symptoms, body temperatures were taken before boarding, and no-one who had recently travelled through countries with high infection rates at the time such as China and South Korea was allowed on.

The first recorded fever on board the ship was on day eight and the study authors said from that point all passengers were confined to their cabins and surgical masks were issued, while full personal protective equipment was used for any contact with any patients with a fever.

Eight people had to be medically evacuated from the ship and the authors said there had been one death to date.”

There were figures from (I think) Iceland which tallied up with those sort of findings. That was done on a pretty small percentage of their population but hopefully if we’re seeing similar in other places it will be a similar amount across the wider public too.

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4 minutes ago, Herman said:

Bloody hell. What sort of scum votes for worse food for their citizens?

 

That is purely rhetorical. 

 

There was another article but the site has seemed to have been taken down! The gist is that whilst the country is being outraged, votes are going through on lots of big stuff (and with less scrutiny of course because business is emote at present). The agricultural story is massive Herman. Sales of agricultural land to property developers? Lowering of food standards? UK/USA trade deals?

 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Retail has been facing a fight for survival for years. My guess would be that most of those retailers adapting and  modernising before coronavirus will survive it and continue to do so after, but it will speed up the end of any retailers who were already struggling.

Agree. There are reports of massive sales (70% off) coming as the big shops try and cover costs. 

You wonder what the appetite will be for shopping as the lockdown eases or whether shoppers will be wary?

Edited by sonyc

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22 minutes ago, sonyc said:

There was another article but the site has seemed to have been taken down! The gist is that whilst the country is being outraged, votes are going through on lots of big stuff (and with less scrutiny of course because business is emote at present). The agricultural story is massive Herman. Sales of agricultural land to property developers? Lowering of food standards? UK/USA trade deals?

 

There's going to be a lot of farmers ruing the day they put up placards on their land. I should be wallowing in schadenfreude but it is rather sad and inevitable. 

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1 hour ago, sonyc said:

Perhaps now we might see the DC uproar in context (distraction) and how this links to the virus / pandemic can be seen just a little bit more clearly...

Full list of MPs who voted to lower our food standards during the Covid pandemic

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/full-list-of-mps-who-voted-to-lower-our-food-standards-during-the-covid-pandemic/26/05/

Ps. Should add that this story has been playing out across many media outlets in the last few days (Express, Guardian etc)

 

No surprise SonyC - I had twigged that Truss etc was 'negotiating' in the US (hence the Huawei double take as well).

It's really a Brexit story - but I guess the farmers (or the small scales ones anyay) will get what they voted for - much the same as the fishermen - global competition and few safeguards.  Lemmings is the appropriate word.

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6 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

No surprise SonyC - I had twigged that Truss etc was 'negotiating' in the US (hence the Huawei double take as well).

It's really a Brexit story - but I guess the farmers (or the small scales ones anyay) will get what they voted for - much the same as the fishermen - global competition and few safeguards.  Lemmings is the appropriate word.

You're correct, it is a Brexit story but they'll use Covid19 as the excuse, they'll be using Covid19 as the excuse for a lot of thier failings.

"We had to do this insert really crap bit of news here as we need to get on and recover after the global pandemic" is the only briefing paper that they need to give ministers. 🙂

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

No surprise SonyC - I had twigged that Truss etc was 'negotiating' in the US (hence the Huawei double take as well).

It's really a Brexit story - but I guess the farmers (or the small scales ones anyay) will get what they voted for - much the same as the fishermen - global competition and few safeguards.  Lemmings is the appropriate word.

It is in part I agree. Yet, I have been wondering about that DC interview much more. I have now wondered if him taking the rose garden (such an unprecedented event) as a SPAD, what he was doing was making the story about himself, taking the focus, being controversial. In so doing, the world watches and gets annoyed. It's chaos. And you get things done in chaos. 

The whole choreography of it was very interesting. More, in some respects than what happened. Almost like it forces one to concentrate on something but real stories are happening elsewhere? I really don't know. Something just feels out of place.

The pandemic has meant far less scrutiny is going on. And for me on this thread, this is a proper subject and it IS a very valid debate as it's about where this national crisis might be heading, economically and societally. You cannot simply ignore things like this. 

Edited by sonyc
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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, sonyc said:

It is in part I agree. Yet, I have been wondering about that DC interview much more. I have now wondered if him taking the rose garden (such an unprecedented event) as a SPAD, what he was doing was making the story about himself, taking the focus, being controversial. In so doing, the world watches and gets annoyed. It's chaos. And you get things done in chaos. 

The whole choreography of it was very interesting. More, in some respects than what happened. Almost like it forces one to concentrate on something but real stories are happening elsewhere? I really don't know. Something just feels out of place.

The pandemic has meant far less scrutiny is going on. And for me on this thread, this is a proper subject and it IS a very valid debate as it's about what this national crisis might be heading, economically and societally. You cannot simply ignore things like this. 

I think the Cummings fiasco is far from planned. It makes Johnson look a weak and ineffective leader - a gullible fool no less (no surprise there) and so was hardly intended. The 'Rose' garden may of been for practical reasons although as the joke goes it does show who's the real (unelected) boss - Cummings not Johnson ! The 'cabinet' ministers let alone MPs are quite dispensable. 

Finally - never let a good crisis go to waste - so yes I'm sure a lot of uncomfortable things will happen in the shadows. Reality will bite as with the farmers above. How sad. Nevermind.  

Edited by Yellow Fever

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"If the government is starting to say that we can interpret the law with our own judgement, that has enormous implications for the law in general.

"What I'm hearing is that the government isn't on the same page as the rest of them."

Sadly that message reinforces the feeling that we're operating on different sets of values

Hancock's respected man of the cloth more or less saying that the feeling isn't mutual. I guess he thought believing this shower respects the law is like believing in Santa.

Repeatedly told for the last three years to respect the majority which of course has happened. Overwhelming public feeling that Cummings should go but a very select few do not believe in that. I can understand if Boris wants to keep him. So pay his wages out of your own pocket PM and he will be your employee.

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2 hours ago, Van wink said:

Not sure if this study has been reported before, apologies if it has.

 
“Coronavirus infection without symptoms might be more common than previously thought, according to a study of people isolated on a cruise ship during the pandemic.

More than 80% of the passengers and crew on the unnamed cruise ship who tested positive for Covid-19 were asymptomatic.

The prevalence of the virus on affected cruise ships is therefore likely to be "significantly underestimated", the study published in the journal Thorax concludes.

Of the 217 passengers and crew on board, 128 tested positive for the virus and of those, 104 patients - 81% - did not have symptoms.

The ship left in mid-March from Argentina for a planned 21-day cruise of the Antarctic. It set sail after the global pandemic was declared by the World Health Organisation (WHO) and two of the study authors happened to be passengers, while a third was the expedition physician.

Passengers and crew were screened for Covid-19 symptoms, body temperatures were taken before boarding, and no-one who had recently travelled through countries with high infection rates at the time such as China and South Korea was allowed on.

The first recorded fever on board the ship was on day eight and the study authors said from that point all passengers were confined to their cabins and surgical masks were issued, while full personal protective equipment was used for any contact with any patients with a fever.

Eight people had to be medically evacuated from the ship and the authors said there had been one death to date.”

So none has symptoms when the cruise departed and were all isolated as soon as it became clear that the virus was on board. 

For over half of those onboard to become sick over he course of a 21 day cruise shows at least one of the following: that the R0 is massive  that distancing measures really dont work that well or that temperature scanning is useless. 

 

Implications for us?

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37 minutes ago, sonyc said:

It is in part I agree. Yet, I have been wondering about that DC interview much more. I have now wondered if him taking the rose garden (such an unprecedented event) as a SPAD, what he was doing was making the story about himself, taking the focus, being controversial. In so doing, the world watches and gets annoyed. It's chaos. And you get things done in chaos. 

The whole choreography of it was very interesting. More, in some respects than what happened. Almost like it forces one to concentrate on something but real stories are happening elsewhere? I really don't know. Something just feels out of place.

The pandemic has meant far less scrutiny is going on. And for me on this thread, this is a proper subject and it IS a very valid debate as it's about where this national crisis might be heading, economically and societally. You cannot simply ignore things like this. 

I think you are right. Is it believable that Cummings would leave London and the seat of government, at a time when the country was in crisis and the Leader may have been dying, just on a whim? He served no purpose other than being a chauffeur? Pull the other one. He was needed in London at that time, in case an emergency broke.

If he went up North to hide himself away and work on something strategic in peace, undisturbed and in isolation, Johnson will have known and it would reinforce Johnson's reason for continuing to back him. We all know that at times you just have to tuck yourself away undisturbed to get something done.

As for the Rose Garden production I could only bring myself to watch it once, but I got the distinct impression that he had been mentored to smile at interviewers as they walked across, but only remembered to do it twice. It sort of tells you how false the whole thing was. Also, watch his hands. He was exhibiting 'displacement' almost throughout. Ministers, Raab, Hancock etc., are actually trained to be very polished in comparison. 

Other than that....well, those yellow azaleas were nice.

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On 25/05/2020 at 16:02, PurpleCanary said:

He needs to change the habit of a lifetime and be apologetic, and he needs to answer every question fully and truthfully. If he does that then the government can move on to what is important, which is the fight against the virus. If he ducks a question and/or is later shown to have lied then this will just rumble on.

He couldn't, he wasn't, and he didn't.

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2 hours ago, sonyc said:

Perhaps now we might see the DC uproar in context (distraction) and how this links to the virus / pandemic can be seen just a little bit more clearly...

Full list of MPs who voted to lower our food standards during the Covid pandemic

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/full-list-of-mps-who-voted-to-lower-our-food-standards-during-the-covid-pandemic/26/05/

Ps. Should add that this story has been playing out across many media outlets in the last few days (Express, Guardian etc)

 

I thought this might explain the rank chicken that we bought in Morrisons a few weeks ago but I see that this still has to be passed in the House of Lords.

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13 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

 

I thought this might explain the rank chicken that we bought in Morrisons a few weeks ago but I see that this still has to be passed in the House of Lords.

But if it was chlorinated it would have lasted longer😐

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