Corona Virus main thread

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

It doesn't look like this arrogant non elected person is going to go. Ricardi is right. He is probably staying. The Cabinet officials they keep rolling out are just fronting it up. Lying. Exaggerating. Falsely understanding.

The PM lied on Sunday night when he said the newspaper reports were untrue when he knew darn well they were true. He then tries to bluff it out again the next evening. 

Never mind what the rest of the Cabinet toadies are saying, they will be under threat of their positions. Its what the PM does and says. And I smiled when he diverted the statement rather than question that he must be a very weak and incapable if he has to rely on Cummings to govern.

This will probably blow over and the lying buffoon will turn his attentions to something else and use his undoubted humour to bully someone else. PMQ's will the last embarrassment for him about this and he will probably sweeten people by throwing a few billions at us.

Gove is the biggest terwat that ever existed in politics and although I am not a fan of Kay Burley she roasted him this morning and had him arguing against his own arguments in the end. The funniest being when replying to a Bishop's quite stern message he said I'm a Christian and I wish him well.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I think people are looking at this from the wrong direction. Keep Cummings. Get rid of Johnson.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

3 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I didn't say he didn't do anything wrong, only that there were circumstances that may have affected his decisions.  He could have done as you suggest and be a bit more humble and apologised, but if the circumstances were as he said - to do with wife's illness, his likelihood of him getting the virus and the real possibility the child would be on it's own, then he will think he did the right thing - and if you think you have done the right thing you won't want to apologise for it. 

Unpopular view of it, yes, but by far the worst thing I have seen in the whole saga is the sight of members of the media falling over themselves outside his house day after day, flouting the social distancing rules openly and without caring.

 

Fine, so in what way were his circumstances 'exceptional'???

Thousands, probably tens of thousands, of families will have been in those same circumstances in the last couple of months and yet they still obeyed the rules. People have been prosecuted for visiting their local park\driving a few miles, this guy drove virtually the length of the country with someone infected with the virus, and then went out for a couple of jaunts whilst he was there.

As for the attention of the journalists, as others have pointed out the attention which this idiot has received pales into insignificance compared to say a footballer, journalist or any political figure outside the Tory party would have received - they would have been absolutely crucified for doing the same.

It absolutely stinks, and having read a lot of your posts over last few years (many of which I've disgreed with but quite a few which I've supported as well) I can only say that I'm genuinely surprised, in fact shocked would be closer, at the stance you've taken on this - even when I've disagreed with your views I always felt you had a decent moral compass, but maybe not, and definitely not on this occasion.

[sonyc 5,491]

This is such a depressing moment in recent political history. Even the younger sections seem to put up with this, disagreeing but with barely a register (using my sons and their friend groups as my source). Perhaps they have the right approach, wise before their time? Or they have been bought off by the system.

That anyone can accept what Cummings did was right, given his central role in the messaging is strange to me. That the cabinet do, shows me what values they have. Worthy of the grossest contempt. For ordinary people, for the relatives of the  dead in this pandemic....a simple apology wouldn't have made a difference but at least it's a human response. We haven't even got that far. 

As JK Rowling has angrily stated, his actions were not exceptional, they were very unexceptional. Hell, even posters on this small message board have lost people they know.

His subsequent explanation (thought he was clever not stupid...that's the best he could come up with?) was pathetic. And the nature of it was disturbing, sitting like a king at the table whilst courtier journalists had to stand before him and deign to ask questions. 

Where are we with political courage (to admit your mistakes), statesmanship, leadership? What has happened to the standard of public discourse that we descend into events like yesterday's pantomime. 

All so depressing. Apologies for explaining on here how I feel. I'm far too much of an idealist rather than a realist (as some quietly point out). It isn't a party political point though, just an expression of feeling about the dishonesty and lack of integrity. I think as a country some sort of line was crossed. 

Well done to that junior minister (Douglas Ross), one sole light in this darkness in his response to this affair. I'm going to contact him.

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by sonyc

[ricardo 7,345]

12 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

 

The PM lied on Sunday night when he said the newspaper reports were untrue when he knew darn well they were true. He then tries to bluff it out again the next evening. 

 

The problem with the newspaper reports is they tried to over egg an already good story. First the Guardians headline of "police talk to Cummings about the lockdown" gets exposed as inaccurate, they didn't. Then they uneccesarily put in a second trip which they couldn't verify but left it hanging as an allegation. 

They had a reasonable story but as soon as one bit falls away the whole lot becomes questionable and thats all you need to cast doubt.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

8 minutes ago, ricardo said:

The problem with the newspaper reports is they tried to over egg an already good story. First the Guardians headline of "police talk to Cummings about the lockdown" gets exposed as inaccurate, they didn't. Then they uneccesarily put in a second trip which they couldn't verify but left it hanging as an allegation. 

They had a reasonable story but as soon as one bit falls away the whole lot becomes questionable and thats all you need to cast doubt.

No. The two main allegations, that Cummings broke lockdown by travelling up north, and that he then broke his own false lockdown by going on a jaunt to Barnard Castle (been there - pleasant northern English market town) were confirmed as facts by Cummings yesterday.

[Barbe bleu 814]

2 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Zero deaths reported for yesterday in ROI, possibly one or two extra today due to weekend ( wasn't bank holiday here). Very positive indeed.  5 km limit may be raised to 20 km a bit earlier. Still crystal clear instructions from non govt.👍

Very positive.  The north had 8 deaths so they could be reporting no deaths in a particular day soon too.   My suspicion is that this will prove to have a very long tail

https://files.nisra.gov.uk/Deaths/Weekly-Deaths-Dashboard.html

Deaths due to respiratory disease are elevated but not hugely so yet overall deaths are up by fairly significantly. Does this suggest that indirect deaths (for instance due to fear of hospitals etc) have been the more significant factor 

https://files.nisra.gov.uk/Deaths/Weekly-Deaths-Dashboard.html

[king canary 7,578]

This will drag on and he may well hang on but damage is certainly being done.

Johnson's approval rating has gone down 20% points in 4 days- from +19 to -1.

Government approval rating dropped by 16% points in a single day to -2%.

 

[lake district canary 4,531]

36 minutes ago, Indy said:

Nah you’re on one of your wind up loops again Lakey so we’ll differ, like above I bet had this been Grealish you’d be so understanding! We’ll leave it there.👍

Grealish? Nope, no way.

As for Cummings, I was as angry about him as anyone last week, but then it changed when I saw the media frenzy around him and the hypocritical press ignoring rules in pursuing someone who they have been misrepresenting and accusing.  The whole shabang is just typical of the media and the government/politicians.  It all stinks. 

Cummings?  There has been a lot of hype and wrong information given out about him.  He has done himself no favours of course, he never does and he plainly doesn't suffer fools gladly, which is why he treats the media with such disdain - and they treat him badly too, they always have.  He was wrong in the spirit and word of what everyone was told to do, but really - IF his wife was ill, IF he thought he was going to go down with the virus, then that is some mitigating circumstances that can be applied to the situation as it unfolded - and there is no doubt that there were caveats about extenuating circumstances in the original edicts about lockdown.

 

[ricardo 7,345]

1 minute ago, PurpleCanary said:

No. The two main allegations, that Cummings broke lockdown by travelling up north, and that he then broke his own false lockdown by going on a jaunt to Barnard Castle (been there - pleasant northern English market town) were confirmed as facts by Cummings yesterday.

That may well be so but Ive sat through plenty of trials after my redundancy and I can assure you that once one bit falls away and the prosecution is reduced to nit picking monor points such did he stop for petrol or a wee etc, the whole thing very quickly gets bogged down in the detail. The press have made a mess of a clean story and have only themselves to blame. I should have had the sense to steer clear of it and keep my money in my pocket.

[sonyc 5,491]

2 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Grealish? Nope, no way.

As for Cummings, I was as angry about him as anyone last week, but then it changed when I saw the media frenzy around him and the hypocritical press ignoring rules in pursuing someone who they have been misrepresenting and accusing.  The whole shabang is just typical of the media and the government/politicians.  It all stinks. 

Cummings?  There has been a lot of hype and wrong information given out about him.  He has done himself no favours of course, he never does and he plainly doesn't suffer fools gladly, which is why he treats the media with such disdain - and they treat him badly too, they always have.  He was wrong in the spirit and word of what everyone was told to do, but really - IF his wife was ill, IF he thought he was going to go down with the virus, then that is some mitigating circumstances that can be applied to the situation as it unfolded - and there is no doubt that there were caveats about extenuating circumstances in the original edicts about lockdown.

 

If you (or I) LDC felt we were going down with the virus, would you have got in your car with a young child?

Would you then have driven non stop for 6 hours? Have you ever driven 6 hours with a child aged 4?

Would you have done it in a pandemic?

Would you have done it if you had had a role in establishing the rules about travel?

Isn't the media outrage (agree with you about doorstepping) simply reflecting the public mood?

 

[ricardo 7,345]

7 minutes ago, king canary said:

This will drag on and he may well hang on but damage is certainly being done.

Johnson's approval rating has gone down 20% points in 4 days- from +19 to -1.

Government approval rating dropped by 16% points in a single day to -2%.

 

Governments lose popularity isn't news. There is far worse to come when the furloughed who are enjoying a paid  sunny summer find out there is no work to go back to in September.

[sonyc 5,491]

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

Governments lose popularity isn't news. There is far worse to come when the furloughed who are enjoying a paid  sunny summer find out there is no work to go back to in September.

Sunak predicted double figure unemployment by the end of this year.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I don't buy the Sunak despondency. The Government can borrow. The BoE can intervene. It is the individual millions of budgets of the rest that is going to plummet. We have been discussing a change to the world and this is an opportunity for Governments to seize back control from the markets. I do not believe that the price of fish in Mauritius should have a bearing on my life.

[king canary 7,578]

12 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Governments lose popularity isn't news. There is far worse to come when the furloughed who are enjoying a paid  sunny summer find out there is no work to go back to in September.

It is news when the drop is that dramatic.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Governments lose popularity isn't news. There is far worse to come when the furloughed who are enjoying a paid  sunny summer find out there is no work to go back to in September.

But Boris will be back in his element then. It will be his opportunity to tell us how he is going to rescue us or he would rather die in bluebell woods in Durham.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

14 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Grealish? Nope, no way.

As for Cummings, I was as angry about him as anyone last week, but then it changed when I saw the media frenzy around him and the hypocritical press ignoring rules in pursuing someone who they have been misrepresenting and accusing.  The whole shabang is just typical of the media and the government/politicians.  It all stinks. 

Cummings?  There has been a lot of hype and wrong information given out about him.  He has done himself no favours of course, he never does and he plainly doesn't suffer fools gladly, which is why he treats the media with such disdain - and they treat him badly too, they always have.  He was wrong in the spirit and word of what everyone was told to do, but really - IF his wife was ill, IF he thought he was going to go down with the virus, then that is some mitigating circumstances that can be applied to the situation as it unfolded - and there is no doubt that there were caveats about extenuating circumstances in the original edicts about lockdown.

 

Why didn't he immediately just call his GP, or even BoJo's doctor, or anyone of the number of doctors/experts he had been dealing with at close quarters and ask for him and his wife and child to be tested? More than 99 per cent of the population, Cummings was in a position to get an instant response and treatment if necessary.

A response which might well have led to him being told to enter a strict lockdown at home. Instead of that he swans off up north to a residence where any lockdown will be less claustrophobic, not knowing if any of them has the virus and so might infect those they are staying with.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

21 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Grealish? Nope, no way.

As for Cummings, I was as angry about him as anyone last week, but then it changed when I saw the media frenzy around him and the hypocritical press ignoring rules in pursuing someone who they have been misrepresenting and accusing.  The whole shabang is just typical of the media and the government/politicians.  It all stinks. 

Cummings?  There has been a lot of hype and wrong information given out about him.  He has done himself no favours of course, he never does and he plainly doesn't suffer fools gladly, which is why he treats the media with such disdain - and they treat him badly too, they always have.  He was wrong in the spirit and word of what everyone was told to do, but really - IF his wife was ill, IF he thought he was going to go down with the virus, then that is some mitigating circumstances that can be applied to the situation as it unfolded - and there is no doubt that there were caveats about extenuating circumstances in the original edicts about lockdown.

 

If the senior Govt Advisor hadn't taken that journey, there would be no frenzy. The style of the frenzy (distancing) was wrong, but not the pursuit of the truth and the exposure of the hippocratic story.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

One of the funny moments is Cummings saying he had gone thirty miles to test his eyesight but hadn't gone - "sightseeing"😂

[BigFish 1,986]

16 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Governments lose popularity isn't news. There is far worse to come when the furloughed who are enjoying a paid  sunny summer find out there is no work to go back to in September.

Starting to look reminiscent of the Major years. Never recovered from Black Wednesday, even with economic growth and faced with a newly capable Labour Party it was a five year drift to an inevitable landslide defeat.

[Aggy 752]

17 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Sunak predicted double figure unemployment by the end of this year.

8 m on furlough , don’t think that includes self employed on the government scheme for them, and there are additional 1-2m on “traditional” benefits already. Probably at least a third of the Uk workforce currently not working, many more on reduced hours. Some of those furloughed jobs will be available again in a couple of months but not all.

 I’d be more surprised if it isn’t at least ten percent unemployed at the end of the year.    And even then a lot of those in employment will still , I would guess, be working some form of reduced hours to ensure that everyone has some form of income rather than half on full time and half out of a job.

[Yellow Fever 3,747]

I see the government support and credibility (no 'integrity' left)  is simply crumbling away.

My guess is that Covid simply 'addles' the brian. No other plausible explanation left.

[king canary 7,578]

Now we've got claims he's edited his old blog to make it look like he predicted an outbreak like this. Bizarre man. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

37 minutes ago, sonyc said:

If you (or I) LDC felt we were going down with the virus, would you have got in your car with a young child?

Would you then have driven non stop for 6 hours? Have you ever driven 6 hours with a child aged 4?

Would you have done it in a pandemic?

Would you have done it if you had had a role in establishing the rules about travel?

Isn't the media outrage (agree with you about doorstepping) simply reflecting the public mood?

 

He said he wasn't unwell when he drove up in the evening.

Yes, I have driven in a car with a four year old and in my experience young children will sleep most or even all of a journey like that.

Driving in pandemic is no different than any other time except the roads are quieter.

Rules were made about travel, but there were caveats about extenuating circumstances.  

The "public mood" is a very generalised term and can be swayed by lots of things - social media for one which is often fed by those wishing to cause trouble and which is often well over the top in it's reaction. 

I'm not stupid, I know it looks bad for him, but it depends on what you want to believe - some people are choosing to assume that he is lying about illnesses and the fear surrounding his situation and assuming to think the worst of him - that he went up for a two week get away for birthdays, visiting parents and sight seeing.  Others might think that he reacted under the circumstances in a sensible way for his family and his situation, given the wife's illness and his expected illness. It could be either, or it could be a bit of both - for me the lines are blurred by all the rubbish that has been written that isn't true, a lot of it has been second guessing and assuming he did things for the wrong reasons, rather than think there might have been good reasons for what he did.

Only he and his wife know - and that is the truth of it, the rest is the media over reacting and making themselves look stupid in the way they have behaved and the rest of us all jumping on the bandwagon without really knowing the full facts. How much of what DC said yesterday is true is up to him and his conscience, if he has one, but for the rest of us who have stuck to the rules, he was right to be forced to make a statement and face questions. He's done that and that should really be an end to it.

[sonyc 5,491]

Fair play to our MP (who I don't agree politically with) but he has stated his view in our local paper about Cummings and replied within one hour of my wife's email (and he has a view of the press...for the attention of LDC ...he and I agree with you on this matter). Didn't expect that but good on him. My faith is restoring!

[Crabbycanary3 994]

11 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

He said he wasn't unwell when he drove up in the evening.

Yes, I have driven in a car with a four year old and in my experience young children will sleep most or even all of a journey like that.

Driving in pandemic is no different than any other time except the roads are quieter.

Rules were made about travel, but there were caveats about extenuating circumstances.  

The "public mood" is a very generalised term and can be swayed by lots of things - social media for one which is often fed by those wishing to cause trouble and which is often well over the top in it's reaction. 

I'm not stupid, I know it looks bad for him, but it depends on what you want to believe - some people are choosing to assume that he is lying about illnesses and the fear surrounding his situation and assuming to think the worst of him - that he went up for a two week get away for birthdays, visiting parents and sight seeing.  Others might think that he reacted under the circumstances in a sensible way for his family and his situation, given the wife's illness and his expected illness. It could be either, or it could be a bit of both - for me the lines are blurred by all the rubbish that has been written that isn't true, a lot of it has been second guessing and assuming he did things for the wrong reasons, rather than think there might have been good reasons for what he did.

Only he and his wife know - and that is the truth of it, the rest is the media over reacting and making themselves look stupid in the way they have behaved and the rest of us all jumping on the bandwagon without really knowing the full facts. How much of what DC said yesterday is true is up to him and his conscience, if he has one, but for the rest of us who have stuck to the rules, he was right to be forced to make a statement and face questions. He's done that and that should really be an end to it.

It would be LDC, if what he said hasn't been challenged with contradictions and exposes of what he said. Why not take a test drive round his family's large estate, rather than a public road? (That's just one example). Cummings said he makes lots of mistakes every single day (who doesn't make a mistake a day?) If he is that bad , then perhaps he is in the wrong job?

Edited May 26, 2020 by Crabbycanary3

[sonyc 5,491]

17 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

He said he wasn't unwell when he drove up in the evening.

Yes, I have driven in a car with a four year old and in my experience young children will sleep most or even all of a journey like that.

Driving in pandemic is no different than any other time except the roads are quieter.

Rules were made about travel, but there were caveats about extenuating circumstances.  

The "public mood" is a very generalised term and can be swayed by lots of things - social media for one which is often fed by those wishing to cause trouble and which is often well over the top in it's reaction. 

I'm not stupid, I know it looks bad for him, but it depends on what you want to believe - some people are choosing to assume that he is lying about illnesses and the fear surrounding his situation and assuming to think the worst of him - that he went up for a two week get away for birthdays, visiting parents and sight seeing.  Others might think that he reacted under the circumstances in a sensible way for his family and his situation, given the wife's illness and his expected illness. It could be either, or it could be a bit of both - for me the lines are blurred by all the rubbish that has been written that isn't true, a lot of it has been second guessing and assuming he did things for the wrong reasons, rather than think there might have been good reasons for what he did.

Only he and his wife know - and that is the truth of it, the rest is the media over reacting and making themselves look stupid in the way they have behaved and the rest of us all jumping on the bandwagon without really knowing the full facts. How much of what DC said yesterday is true is up to him and his conscience, if he has one, but for the rest of us who have stuck to the rules, he was right to be forced to make a statement and face questions. He's done that and that should really be an end to it.

Well, you are entitled to that opinion LDC. I'm not commenting about social media or the press hawks (in agreement), I was simply expressing my view about Cummings' actions in themselves and political support about it. To argue a point about the press misses entirely the main point.

Such is my naivety that I always struggle to understand how people see something happen like this (which feels SO wrong) and have such divergent responses. Now we're being told simply that we have to get on with it.

So back to our little lives eh? No wonder one paper has the tagline #stay elite on its front page.

Edited May 26, 2020 by sonyc
Layout

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

12 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

He said he wasn't unwell when he drove up in the evening.

Yes, I have driven in a car with a four year old and in my experience young children will sleep most or even all of a journey like that.

Driving in pandemic is no different than any other time except the roads are quieter.

Rules were made about travel, but there were caveats about extenuating circumstances.  

The "public mood" is a very generalised term and can be swayed by lots of things - social media for one which is often fed by those wishing to cause trouble and which is often well over the top in it's reaction. 

I'm not stupid, I know it looks bad for him, but it depends on what you want to believe - some people are choosing to assume that he is lying about illnesses and the fear surrounding his situation and assuming to think the worst of him - that he went up for a two week get away for birthdays, visiting parents and sight seeing.  Others might think that he reacted under the circumstances in a sensible way for his family and his situation, given the wife's illness and his expected illness. It could be either, or it could be a bit of both - for me the lines are blurred by all the rubbish that has been written that isn't true, a lot of it has been second guessing and assuming he did things for the wrong reasons, rather than think there might have been good reasons for what he did.

Only he and his wife know - and that is the truth of it, the rest is the media over reacting and making themselves look stupid in the way they have behaved and the rest of us all jumping on the bandwagon without really knowing the full facts. How much of what DC said yesterday is true is up to him and his conscience, if he has one, but for the rest of us who have stuck to the rules, he was right to be forced to make a statement and face questions. He's done that and that should really be an end to it.

The facts are that he and his wife drove 30 minutes to a village on her birthday that was against the lockdown rules. It was unnecessary travel. The reasoning being he was checking his eyesight. Now, if you do believe this farcical explanation, then Cummings is a very odd person. It’s very weird to “test” your eyesight in this way, and if it had been off and there’d been an accident, this would have required medical care that was more urgently needed elsewhere. 

[king canary 7,578]

12 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Others might think that he reacted under the circumstances in a sensible way for his family and his situation, given the wife's illness and his expected illness.

But isn't the point that during these circumstances you have to think beyond what is best for you and your family? What has ****ed off so many people is that they've followed the rules, often against their instincts as to what might be best for them and their family, only for the architect of said rules to disobey them and then claim that he did nothing wrong. 

[sonyc 5,491]

1 minute ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

The facts are that he and his wife drove 30 minutes to a village on her birthday that was against the lockdown rules. It was unnecessary travel. The reasoning being he was checking his eyesight. Now, if you do believe this farcical explanation, then Cummings is a very odd person. It’s very weird to “test” your eyesight in this way, and if it had been off and there’d been an accident, this would have required medical care that was more urgently needed elsewhere. 

This Barnard Castle eyesight thing is this year's Pizza Express Woking. And another historical ludicrous comment was Bill Clinton's "I did not have....."