Jump to content
Fuzzar

Corona Virus main thread

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, king canary said:

I slightly agree but I think you've got to factor in the role our electoral system plays in keeping this duopoly. Too many people in this country have votes that either dont count or only count if they hold their nose and vote for one of these two parties. 

 I agree you have to factor the electoral system into this and it is infuriating to live in a place where your vote basically doesn't count.

Until people get so fed up with the two party system that they stop voting for either of them, this mad duopoly is going to carry on. It could change - but we probably need a new party to come up with something that can grab a huge amount of people's attention and make the breakthrough.  Unfortunately the Libdems aren't up to the task, the Greens......well they could make headway if circumstances were right.....but to get enough people to vote for something other than tory or labour, it is going take something radical - or a green/liberal alliance based - or something totally new.. 

Brexit might still do it - if Boris and his crew carry on like they are, the brexit negotiations are likely to p*ss off enough voters to vote for another party next time.  Unfortunately, it looks as if Labour have someone in charge who has a bit about him so all the labour voters who voted tory will probably go back to labour.....but then if somehow the tories can completely break down as a party, it might just see a sea change in the two party system. 

There are other factors - further devolution may happen with NI being a particular issue with brexit and who might start heading towards independence and/or a united Ireland and Scotland is always likely to vote for independence if the brexit thing unravels.  Wales might tag along for the ride too when hey see NI and Scotland go.  All this will take years to happen, but the one thing I am totally sure of is that the way we choose our governments is so outdated as to be utterly impractical. Year after year of inept t*t for tat politics, style over substance and a media that can't help itself is gradually producing a dystonic society. 

All those films that depict different versions of dystonia don't look half so far fetched as they used to.  I always think of The Running Man where the dystonia is almost complete - with people engulfed and addicted to the media/government led games.....accept as in the film there will always be people who will fight for freedom.  To stop us heading towards that kind of world, it will need a huge change in society because as it stands with Trump in America and the UK echoing the way the US are doing things with it's "style over substance", the way forwards is going to be rocky.  

Bringing it back to today, the way the virus situation has been handled from the word go was predictable, with no preparation or planning and then half measures - but then we did vote Boris in, so maybe it is all our fault..........

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, daly said:

Keelan

Never said I was a Boris lover but Corbyn was the main reason The Tories won so convincingly. 
Bit like choosing between Naismith and Lafferty

Both poor

Sad, but true

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BigFish said:

Both poor

Both quite well off actually  seeing as they were happy to take the Clubs money even when it was clear they had no future here. 😉💰💰💰....apart from future wages of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Johnson's ambition to be world leading takes another leap forward. UK 543 Italy 539 (deaths per million)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see Cummings is giving us the honour of a statement. Clearly, this will be an attempt to close off debate, encourage some sympathy and buy off the public with an apology. The Scottish CMO did the same but then Sturgeon removed her. 

Anyone predict anything different?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Issues inherent in the FPTP voting system, 

Brexit

Inadequacy of minor parties

UK nationalist movements and independence.

Dystopian societies

Media addiction 

The Running Man (!)

Trump.

Having now pretty much abandoned discussion of the virus can anyone tell me where we can discuss the most important issue of the year or do I find something else to do?

 

15 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

 I agree you have to factor the electoral system into this and...  maybe it is all our fault.........

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Issues inherent in the FPTP voting system, 

Brexit

Inadequacy of minor parties

UK nationalist movements and independence.

Dystopian societies

Media addiction 

The Running Man (!)

Trump.

Having now pretty much abandoned discussion of the virus can anyone tell me where we can discuss the most important issue of the year or do I find something else to do?

 

 

The bumblebees are having a right knees-up in my mock-orange.😀

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Johnson's ambition to be world leading takes another leap forward. UK 543 Italy 539 (deaths per million)

Slightly different data to worldometer which has them level.  Does this source differentiate between deaths in hospitals and deaths in care homes?

  I have had a theory for a while that the government/ we became so obsessed with protecting the NHS and other such things that we forgot to check if the care home door is closed. If my theory is correct we should see the proportion of deaths in UK hospitals being low compared to italy but care home deaths much higher.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As Durham police have now received the complaint they needed in order to investigate  , this could get really sticky for Cummins . My fear is that the Conservative  party will let a prosecution be his punishment.  With a statement along the lines of .. " he made a mistake, he has been punished, right let's move on because no one else who was prosecuted  ie joe Boggs, had to lose their job as a consequence of a violation of lockdown guidelines, all this will be accompanied by reminding us it was his dutiful fatherliness that led to his  faux pas'. 

One big cook up after another. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Slightly different data to worldometer which has them level.  Does this source differentiate between deaths in hospitals and deaths in care homes?

  I have had a theory for a while that the government/ we became so obsessed with protecting the NHS and other such things that we forgot to check if the care home door is closed. If my theory is correct we should see the proportion of deaths in UK hospitals being low compared to italy but care home deaths much higher.

image.thumb.png.76d90cb39721317ed2a6dd1e1f46c9ce.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BigFish said:

image.thumb.png.76d90cb39721317ed2a6dd1e1f46c9ce.png

Johnson closing in on Spain, but needs to watch out for Brazil if he is serious about being world leading. Probably the opening of schools without a proper track, trace, isolate system should give him another push for the top.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

As Durham police have now received the complaint they needed in order to investigate  , this could get really sticky for Cummins . My fear is that the Conservative  party will let a prosecution be his punishment.  With a statement along the lines of .. " he made a mistake, he has been punished, right let's move on because no one else who was prosecuted  ie joe Boggs, had to lose their job as a consequence of a violation of lockdown guidelines, all this will be accompanied by reminding us it was his dutiful fatherliness that led to his  faux pas'. 

One big cook up after another. 

If he is prosecuted and fined, then they either have to come out and admit they lied to the public yesterday (“he acted legally responsibly and morally”) or admit that Cummins lied to Boris before his announcement yesterday. 

The handling of it shows just how useless this lot are. Come out, hold your hands up, play the sympathy “good father” line but accept he was in the wrong and then you move on, people forget quickly and Boris actually comes out of it with a bit of credit. Instead they’ve just dug the hole a bit deeper.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Aggy said:

If he is prosecuted and fined, then they either have to come out and admit they lied to the public yesterday (“he acted legally responsibly and morally”) or admit that Cummins lied to Boris before his announcement yesterday. 

The handling of it shows just how useless this lot are. Come out, hold your hands up, play the sympathy “good father” line but accept he was in the wrong and then you move on, people forget quickly and Boris actually comes out of it with a bit of credit. Instead they’ve just dug the hole a bit deeper.

At some point useless people in power will screw up. It's just about being patient.

Who'd have thought that the powder I was keeping dry could be taken out and used so quickly.

Cummings has made so many enemies with his confrontational style that he will struggle to survive this - it is time for all the snubbed Tory MPs to sit down and enjoy their cold dish. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Aggy said:

If he is prosecuted and fined, then they either have to come out and admit they lied to the public yesterday (“he acted legally responsibly and morally”) or admit that Cummins lied to Boris before his announcement yesterday. 

The handling of it shows just how useless this lot are. Come out, hold your hands up, play the sympathy “good father” line but accept he was in the wrong and then you move on, people forget quickly and Boris actually comes out of it with a bit of credit. Instead they’ve just dug the hole a bit deeper.

If anyone is interested these are the regulations

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/made

Questions to me seem to be a) was it reasonably necessary in the circumstances for him to move house b) was his moving in order to provide care c) did he have any other reasonable excuse for the journey.

If the answer to any is yes than what he did was lawful . If there is doubt it'll be resolved in his favour

 

Edited by Barbe bleu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Trevor Hockey's Beard said:

At some point useless people in power will screw up. It's just about being patient.

Who'd have thought that the powder I was keeping dry could be taken out and used so quickly.

Cummings has made so many enemies with his confrontational style that he will struggle to survive this - it is time for all the snubbed Tory MPs to sit down and enjoy their cold dish. 

He needs to change the habit of a lifetime and be apologetic, and he needs to answer every question fully and truthfully. If he does that then the government can move on to what is important, which is the fight against the virus. If he ducks a question and/or is later shown to have lied then this will just rumble on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why is he being allowed airtime? I cannot believe an unelected adviser is being allowed to put his case to the public.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Why is he being allowed airtime? I cannot believe an unelected adviser is being allowed to put his case to the public.

It's a very unusual event. Taking place I read in the rose garden of No 10.

Not in a bluebell wood.

Edited by sonyc
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahead of Dominic Cummings’s public statement this afternoon, a number of people on Twitter are flagging the government’s code of conduct for special advisers which states they must not take “public part in political controversy”.

Point 14 states:

Special advisers must not take public part in political controversy, through any form of statement whether in speeches or letters to the press, or in books, social media, articles or leaflets.

They must observe discretion and express comment with moderation, avoiding personal attacks, and would not normally speak in public for their minister or the department.

It would seem you're right KG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Why is he being allowed airtime? I cannot believe an unelected adviser is being allowed to put his case to the public.

Same reason Sky wants the footy to restart😉

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In answer to my question about what to predict will be said at 4pm...

I am getting prepared for feeling ashamed at my outrage given all the facts which are going to be presented in forensic detail. I will need to reflect on my mistaken beliefs and overreaction very deeply, before trudging off to join a monastery (a silent order). 

I'm expecting a full on attack on the media, press intrusion and cabinet smugness.

And then this evening ...to return to my pleb hole.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I'm  expecting everyone to be fast asleep by the time Robert Peston gets to the end of his question.

Then Cummings will ask him to repeat it.😁

Edited by ricardo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I'm  expecting everyone to be fast asleep by the time Robert Peston gets to the end of his question.

Then Cummings will ask him to repeat it.😁

Keep your wallet ready. I still think he might resign "for the sake of the country" crap.

Position is and remains untenable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Keep your wallet ready. I still think he might resign "for the sake of the country" crap.

Position is and remains untenable.

I really doubt it YF. 

Yet, how amazing that an unelected advisor is addressing the nation in the garden of Number 10 and BBC is setting up a special  early programme to cover it. Don't you feel the country is being played? 

It's amazing he has this opportunity and such a 'marketing' moment in our time. Wonder what the viewing figures will be?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

If anyone is interested these are the regulations

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/made

Questions to me seem to be a) was it reasonably necessary in the circumstances for him to move house b) was his moving in order to provide care c) did he have any other reasonable excuse for the journey.

If the answer to any is yes than what he did was lawful . If there is doubt it'll be resolved in his favour

 

The moving house bit means selling yours and buying a new one - not just nipping down to your second home because you feel like it. If you were contractually bound to complete on a house sale a fortnight after the lockdown started it would possibly have been reasonably necessary for you to move to your new home rather than have a whole chain of people incurring fees for failing to complete and/or being left homeless.


The amendment to the regs they brought in earlier this month is linked below - note that subsection 6(l) of the original regs is substituted to allow for visits to estate agents, viewing residential houses with a view to buying, preparing to move into a new home, moving home etc. This shows the original 6(l) is intended to mean house sales and purchases, not moving to your second/parents’ home.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/500/regulation/2/made

Edited by Aggy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I really doubt it YF. 

Yet, how amazing that an unelected advisor is addressing the nation in the garden of Number 10 and BBC is setting up a special  early programme to cover it. Don't you feel the country is being played? 

It's amazing he has this opportunity and such a 'marketing' moment in our time. Wonder what the viewing figures will be?

Perhaps Johnson will resign and Cummings take over as PM. After all you don't actually need to be a MP to be PM.

Now that would be fun.....

 

Edited by Yellow Fever
We are in the land of fantasy with Johnson anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Perhaps Johnson will resign and Cummings take over as PM. After all you don't actually need to be a MP to be PM.

Now that would be fun.....

 

I see that #scummedia is trending. Now why would that be? (Nothing to do with L1pswich either😉)

As DC is a master of social media and getting headlines to fly, I'm assuming part of his speech will be about the state of media in the UK.

He really is a master technician.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Keep your wallet ready. I still think he might resign "for the sake of the country" crap.

Position is and remains untenable.

I fear my wallet may be in ITU for some extended period.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's 4.10pm ....

Maybe it is just me, but if you call a press conference for 4pm (in the Downing St garden of all places) and you can't be bothered to turn up on time isn't that more evidence of the kind of self-centered arrogance that this whole issue is about ...?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Surfer said:

It's 4.10pm ....

Maybe it is just me, but if you call a press conference for 4pm (in the Downing St garden of all places) and you can't be bothered to turn up on time isn't that more evidence of the kind of self-centered arrogance that this whole issue is about ...?

Waiting for Death Rigby to get her lipstick on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...