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10 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

This has been an excellent, educational thread from which I have learned a great deal. And accordingly have mainly just read and not posted, and steered clear of getting into the politics of it all.

But anyone who thinks it is possible to understand any of this, whether in the UK or in any country around the world, without taking account of politics, in all its forms, including as here the symbolism of otherwise trivial events, is being hopelessly naive. Politics is in everything, and this pandemic is no exception.

I didn't need proof of the above but I got it anyway. Perhaps now posters who have been desperately claiming that politics  should be left out of this global tragedy will have the sense to keep quiet for a while.

Perhaps a bit of physical distance helps, not least in not following every local omnishabolic move of this potemkin 'government', but to spell it out - any other supposedly serious country across the world fighting this pandemic would have blanched at the idea of copying today's lying pantomime.  The awful reality for the UK is that no-one was particularly surprised.

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Goodness, you know something is up when #eventhemail is trending.

Seriously, what we are witnessing is quite extraordinary. 

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1 hour ago, sonyc said:

...Tory MPs' mailboxes are full of emailed complaints and there is a lot of anger in-house.

Yup. A very measured response here from one of those Tory MP's  .. have a read through it. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Nice to watch the Tories imploding this quickly.

No it isn't.  It was obvious to anyone with half a brain that this was the kind of government we were going to get, yet millions of people gleefully switched over to them because they thought they were going to get their beloved brexit.  Well the battle for what kind of brexit we are going to get hasn't really got under way yet and the way the present bunch are handling things, I wouldn't get too excited about brexit plans and the negotiations with the EU, who still hold all the cards......

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The alternative was a racist IRA loving Corbyn

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The alternative was a racist IRA loving Corbyn

I wondered when that one was going to see the light of day. Don't forget Jew hating Terrorist lover.

 

 

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1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

The alternative was a racist IRA loving Corbyn

I wondered when that one was going to see the light of day. Don't forget Jew hating Terrorist lover.

 

 

Correct 

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Not really into politics but that press conference tonight was a car crash! Boris was completely out of his depth once the questions started coming.

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Correct

But now we have a PM who is happy to let old people die. Someone who hasn't got the backbone to face the nation except to try and save the skin of someone who wasn't even elected.

No fool like an fool is there?

 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

no fool like an fool is there?

ask Ricardo... as this 'foot stamping' rolls into yet another day

where the question still goes unanswered - why has Cummings not been sacked, as dragging this out merely damages further what is left of Johnson

as I have said ...own up, apologise and resign and it will be tomorrows chip paper

because him still being there suggests Johnson is not in control, and is little more that a 'lovable' front man for those really running things - who require someone (Cummings) with a bit of strength and certainty to push through their agenda, something the hapless and inadequate Johnson isn't

so for all the silly bleats on Saturday this is heading towards one of those defining and remembered moments in politics - and probably the country's post war history

this is not about sleaze or financial mismanagement, this about about 50,000 deaths, about millions being separated from their families and being unable to properly pay their respects to their departed family and friends

but above all what will stick is the various attempts to cover this up, and Johnson's weasel words because he either has not the guts or the authority to remove Cummings

if, as I suspect, it is the latter then he is no more than a unprincipled and gutless charlatan willing to be politically cuckolded, for the trappings of office

even John Major stood his ground when he called a vote of 'back me or sack me', Javid walked when  Cummings sought to take over the Treasury ... yet Johnson hangs on, deluding himself that folk still think he is in control

he is not, and his actions over this weekend clearly demonstrate that

 

 

 

 

Edited by Bill

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The PM has In effect just kissed his version of Brexit goodbye. Oh no you may say, not that remainer cr*p again, can’t you let it go, this is about the virus... and indeed on the face of it it is. But what it has revealed is a PM and Cabinet that Re “on another planet” as the Mail says. 

Once a governments’s credibility is trashed, and it is, every following action will be questioned. If the voters affirmed to “get Brexit done,” it was based on the promise by the PM of a deal. And now he has shown today that any deal means anything he says it does, that there is nothing that he will not sacrifice to weasel out from a deal; every negotiation, every agreement, every statement will be publicly questioned for truth. 

There may still technically be a Brexit, in that the country will legally leave the EU, but the country will not be bamboozled into a no deal Brexit by this Prime Minister and Cabinet even if Dominic Cummings stays. They have lost the consent of the people for them to govern, now they will have to impose their policies on the people and that is a very dangerous political game to play despite the very large majority in Parliament. By next week Starmer’s approval rating may be 10 points ahead of Boris and he can start to set expectations for what kind of agreements we will need with the EU for a smooth transition into the post-Brexit world. 

It’s quite an achievement to lose control of the country while holding an 80 seat majority but the PM has managed it, whether he yet realizes it or not. I expect things to rapidly escalate out of control this week, Cummings may still go, but irrespective of whether he does or whether he doesn’t, the damage has already been done. 

And unfortunately the only real winner is the virus - replicating away in the background and much more likely to thrive given this destruction of public trust in the entire Tory government. 

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7 hours ago, Diane said:

Not really into politics but that press conference tonight was a car crash! Boris was completely out of his depth once the questions started coming.

He was virtually stuttering right from the start, you could tell he had absolutely no faith in his own words.

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Click on image. A leader handling stress at a press briefing.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, daly said:

The alternative was a racist IRA loving Corbyn

You may not realise it given you appear to look no further than the end of your nose, but even in our decrepit, dysfunctional electoral system rigged towards a two party state system, there are still other alternatives.

Anyone with a brain, and given an incredibly poor choice by the top two might have looked at some of the other alternatives and if enough people had done so then we wouldn't be in the mess we are now - nor would we have Corbyn, Johnson, or Cummings running the country.

Edited by Creative Midfielder

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This obviously is not going to go away, had he owned up explained situation as Bill said it would be tomorrow’s fish and chip.

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8 hours ago, daly said:

The alternative was a racist IRA loving Corbyn

There were alternatives it's just that people behave like sheep and they play along with the games politicians play. The electorate were duped over brexit as they were duped by Boris and his totally obvious tactics at the last election.

The country isn't any good at making decisions that matter. We continually vote for sound bites and propaganda rather than substance.  There are alternatives, but people are incapable of seeing beyond their noses and voting for something different than tory or Labour in enough numbers to get something different. If we want a capable and ethical government we have to vote for it...but we don't - we are stuck in a loop of behaviour that perpetuates the two party system and until people wake up, it will go on like this for years.

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Thanks to sonyc I just saw this on Marina's twitter feed.

 

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27 minutes ago, daly said:

This obviously is not going to go away, had he owned up explained situation as Bill said it would be tomorrow’s fish and chip.

I remain hopeful of a stewards inquiry.

In the meantime I am nursing a sick wallet.

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Once you've seen that the Emperor is naked you can't unsee it.

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"What planet are they on ?" ask the Daily Mail.

Same planet they've always been on - planet unicorn, planet fantasy world,  planet 'loose association with the truth', planet 'me me me' and so on.

It doesn't really matter - if you were mug enough to vote for them don't be at all surprised to be treated like a mug. After all many (even in the Tory party) gave due warning.

Surprised it's taken the Daily Mail this long to realize. Mugs too. So what are they going to do about it ?

 

 

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42 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

There were alternatives it's just that people behave like sheep and they play along with the games politicians play. The electorate were duped over brexit as they were duped by Boris and his totally obvious tactics at the last election.

The country isn't any good at making decisions that matter. We continually vote for sound bites and propaganda rather than substance.  There are alternatives, but people are incapable of seeing beyond their noses and voting for something different than tory or Labour in enough numbers to get something different. If we want a capable and ethical government we have to vote for it...but we don't - we are stuck in a loop of behaviour that perpetuates the two party system and until people wake up, it will go on like this for years.

I slightly agree but I think you've got to factor in the role our electoral system plays in keeping this duopoly. Too many people in this country have votes that either dont count or only count if they hold their nose and vote for one of these two parties. 

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3 minutes ago, king canary said:

I slightly agree but I think you've got to factor in the role our electoral system plays in keeping this duopoly. Too many people in this country have votes that either dont count or only count if they hold their nose and vote for one of these two parties. 

I've had a vote in national elections since the mid 1970s and I've not had a single success anytime I've voted! And I'm doubting I ever will in my lifetime.

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1 minute ago, sonyc said:

I've had a vote in national elections since the mid 1970s and I've not had a single success anytime I've voted! And I'm doubting I ever will in my lifetime.

You just have to put an X next to the winning candidate. Its not that difficult😉

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Herman said:

Once you've seen that the Emperor is naked you can't unsee it.

It was weird watching that press briefing. I was 99% expecting him to relieve Cummings of his position, even as he began his speech. So I was shocked and strangely following, also not at all surprised. Both responses all within a few moments. That's the nature of my trust in a nutshell. I want the leader in government (whoever, I suppose) just to do the right thing. 

It's like some Trumpian dystopia but in our little UK. Something so un-English (!) and not right about it...the idea about fair play. In this I hope I'm sharing what the majority of the country are feeling and I'm not an outlier. I even think this message board is at one on this matter.

Edited by sonyc
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2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

You just have to put an X next to the winning candidate. Its not that difficult😉

Haha. Can't see the UK being green until long after I'm dead R. Perhaps after the climate has forced parts of the east coast into the sea or we get flooding every year or droughts become common. Or I suppose, we have coalitions. That might be a little window of hope 🙂

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13 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I've had a vote in national elections since the mid 1970s and I've not had a single success anytime I've voted! And I'm doubting I ever will in my lifetime.

My mum is the same- Labour voter in a safe Tory seat. FPTP is a system basically designed to breed political apathy. 

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