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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, sonyc said:

You should trade out for a small profit R

Apparently at one stage it went to 4-1 and there I was thinking 2's was value. There must have been some thick wedges on him staying for that to happen.

Always with your gut, sometimes you can over analyseūüôĄ it.

Evens now.

Edited by ricardo
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Just now, ricardo said:

Always with your gut, sometimes you can over analise it.

That sounds painful.... I'll stick to analysing rather than analising I think.

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1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

I didn't want to stray into this debate but it seems to be the only one in town at the moment.

What is the actual advice he is said to have fallen foul of?  Both sides are adamant in their opinion that he has or has not breached the advice but I assume that it is possible to compare what he says he has done with the advice and point to what he has or has not done right or wrong?

And for full disclosure I thought the other two that resigned did the wrong thing. They both (i assume)had valuable skills and should instead have apologised, made a contribution to charity as penance and got on with it

 

 

Cummings is bang¬†to rights on this. After they had recovered his¬†wife wrote an article for the Spectator about their illness. She claims her OH was laying in bed for ten days ‚Äė at home ‚Äė with breathing difficulties but failed to mention they were in fact in Durham. I wonder why she did that ? Might that¬†have been because it might not look too good to say that infected with the virus they travelled over 250 miles to deposit their potentially infected son with Cummings¬†over-70 year old at risk parents ? Cummings knew the rules, he got found out.

I disagree that the other two resignations were wrong. The Scottish Chief Medical Officer broke the rules twice and despite Sturgeons desperate efforts to save her she correctly had to go. Apparently she was very good at her job but that’s incidental. Similarly Neil Ferguson, also a gifted individual, met his mistress when he knew full well this was against official guidance. He had the decency to resign.

Cummings should go the same way.

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Cummings is bang¬†to rights on this. After they had recovered his¬†wife wrote an article for the Spectator about their illness. She claims her OH was laying in bed for ten days ‚Äė at home ‚Äė with breathing difficulties but failed to mention they were in fact in Durham. I wonder why she did that ? Might that¬†have been because it might not look too good to say that infected with the virus they travelled over 250 miles to deposit their potentially infected son with Cummings¬†over-70 year old at risk parents ? Cummings knew the rules, he got found out.

I disagree that the other two resignations were wrong. The Scottish Chief Medical Officer broke the rules twice and despite Sturgeons desperate efforts to save her she correctly had to go. Apparently she was very good at her job but that’s incidental. Similarly Neil Ferguson, also a gifted individual, met his mistress when he knew full well this was against official guidance. He had the decency to resign.

Cummings should go the same way.

 

Its often not the offence but nearly always the attempted cover up that does for them.

Edited by ricardo

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16 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Cummings is bang¬†to rights on this. After they had recovered his¬†wife wrote an article for the Spectator about their illness. She claims her OH was laying in bed for ten days ‚Äė at home ‚Äė with breathing difficulties but failed to mention they were in fact in Durham. I wonder why she did that ? Might that¬†have been because it might not look too good to say that infected with the virus they travelled over 250 miles to deposit their potentially infected son with Cummings¬†over-70 year old at risk parents ? Cummings knew the rules, he got found out.

I disagree that the other two resignations were wrong. The Scottish Chief Medical Officer broke the rules twice and despite Sturgeons desperate efforts to save her she correctly had to go. Apparently she was very good at her job but that’s incidental. Similarly Neil Ferguson, also a gifted individual, met his mistress when he knew full well this was against official guidance. He had the decency to resign.

Cummings should go the same way.

 

Hmm. Not sure, though you'd really have to read the original papers  ...

Imperial College epidemiologist Neil] Ferguson was behind the disputed research that sparked the mass culling of eleven million sheep and cattle during the 2001 outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease. He also predicted that up to 150,000 people could die. There were fewer than 200 deaths. . . .

In 2002, Ferguson predicted that up to 50,000 people would likely die from exposure to BSE (mad cow disease) in beef. In the U.K., there were only 177 deaths from BSE.

In 2005, Ferguson predicted that up to 150 million people could be killed from bird flu. In the end, only 282 people died worldwide from the disease between 2003 and 2009.

In 2009, a government estimate, based on Ferguson‚Äôs advice, said a ‚Äúreasonable worst-case scenario‚ÄĚ was that the swine flu would lead to 65,000 British deaths. In the end, swine flu killed 457 people in the U.K.

Last March, Ferguson admitted that his Imperial College model of the COVID-19 disease was based on undocumented, 13-year-old computer code that was intended to be used for a feared influenza pandemic, rather than a coronavirus. Ferguson declined to release his original code so other scientists could check his results. He only released a heavily revised set of code last week (beginning of May), after a six-week delay.

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Posted (edited)

Aren't those a bit like the Y2K conspiracist reasonings? Because his predictions didn't come true it's because the science and data was faulty rather than the fact people worked bloody hard to stop the predictions coming true?!

Edited by Herman

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2 hours ago, Mark .Y. said:

No, I'm not missing the point.

So, he can be an easy target - and absolutely rightly so, in my opinion he has clearly f*cked up and should take the appropriate action.

The point I was making is that in a couple of months time a huge swathe of the British population won't care.

Missed again, they may forget this incident but Cummings will create more incidents. Each of these will erode trust in Johnson because Cummings is unelected, arrogant and doesn't care what anyone else thinks.

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Just now, BigFish said:

arrogant and doesn't care what anyone else thinks.

The worst sort, complete and utter ****.

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Thus seems to be building as a story as people reflect more. Tomorrow's front pages perhaps.

 

The Observer view: this breach of the lockdown guidelines is a disgrace

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/23/the-observer-view-this-breach-of-the-lockdown-guidelines-is-a-disgrace?

 

On a slightly related point, did anyone see the lunchtime news which showed Dom Cummings walk to 10 Downing St, knock at the door and then, despite a wait of maybe 5 to 10 seconds, he lent his whole body against the left side of the doorway. It was weird to see, because it seemed disrespectful somehow. You need to see it I guess. 

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Just now, sonyc said:

 

 

On a slightly related point, did anyone see the lunchtime news which showed Dom Cummings walk to 10 Downing St, knock at the door and then, despite a wait of maybe 5 to 10 seconds, he lent his whole body against the left side of the doorway. It was weird to see, because it seemed disrespectful somehow. You need to see it I guess. 

Yes I've seen that, he thinks he's untouchable, in for a mighty fall.

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Do you think he has a big file of other's misdemeanors?ūüėÄ

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Posted (edited)

Wife said it looks like he owns the place. I suppose to get into those positions you need to have absolute faith in yourself, to be powerful so others hire you. The Benedict Cumberbatch portrayal was interesting and showed that he can have a magnetic effect on others. A lot of Conservatives are scared of him I've heard (I must have a mole!)

Edited by sonyc

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7 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Bill Hill now have it as 4/6 gone, 11/10 still there on 1st June.

Bye, bye Dom looking good

2-1 was good value

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Its often not the offence but nearly always the attempted cover up that does for them.

Indeed it is. The Greeks had a very specific word for¬†this - Hubris, the belief you can do no wrong, until that is the Gods prove otherwise.¬†Or as a preacher might¬†say ‚Äúpride goes before a fall.‚ÄĚ The other H word - Humility - is all that is normally required from a British public figure¬†doing wrong, but digging in, and brushing away criticism¬†in an arrogant ‚Äúlittle people don‚Äôt matter‚ÄĚ style does not work. All they had to do was roll out Boris and say yes, it was unfortunate but he did ask me for permission to go, and everyone would have shrugged their shoulders.¬†

Or Dominic could have asked his boss for some help finding childcare, it’s inconceivable the UK government could not arrange for a private nanny or nurse for a couple of weeks, he is his senior advisor after all. 

But then his wife wrote that Spectator article ... and here we are, careers crashing and burning in real time.  

Edited by Surfer

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27 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Hmm. Not sure, though you'd really have to read the original papers  ...

Imperial College epidemiologist Neil] Ferguson was behind the disputed research that sparked the mass culling of eleven million sheep and cattle during the 2001 outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease. He also predicted that up to 150,000 people could die. There were fewer than 200 deaths. . . .

In 2002, Ferguson predicted that up to 50,000 people would likely die from exposure to BSE (mad cow disease) in beef. In the U.K., there were only 177 deaths from BSE.

In 2005, Ferguson predicted that up to 150 million people could be killed from bird flu. In the end, only 282 people died worldwide from the disease between 2003 and 2009.

In 2009, a government estimate, based on Ferguson‚Äôs advice, said a ‚Äúreasonable worst-case scenario‚ÄĚ was that the swine flu would lead to 65,000 British deaths. In the end, swine flu killed 457 people in the U.K.

Last March, Ferguson admitted that his Imperial College model of the COVID-19 disease was based on undocumented, 13-year-old computer code that was intended to be used for a feared influenza pandemic, rather than a coronavirus. Ferguson declined to release his original code so other scientists could check his results. He only released a heavily revised set of code last week (beginning of May), after a six-week delay.

Fair point Ron. 

Ferguson is¬†a bit of a Marmite character but accepting that his predictions are more Mystic Meg¬†than solid science people who end with the panhandle ‚Äė ‚Äė¬†Professor ‚Äė do¬†tend to have a bit more up¬†top than Joe Average ūüėÄ

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Herman said:

Do you think he has a big file of other's misdemeanors?ūüėÄ

Well he wont go quietly thats for sure, maybe he'll do a David Kelly

Edited by Van wink

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3 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Well he wont go quietly thats for sure, maybe he'll do a David Kelly

Perhaps only if he was sacked which appears highly unlikely given the overwhelming cabinet supportive statements this afternoon (think Johnson is absent).

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1 hour ago, ron obvious said:

Hmm. Not sure, though you'd really have to read the original papers  ...

Imperial College epidemiologist Neil] Ferguson was behind the disputed research that sparked the mass culling of eleven million sheep and cattle during the 2001 outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease. He also predicted that up to 150,000 people could die. There were fewer than 200 deaths. . . .

In 2002, Ferguson predicted that up to 50,000 people would likely die from exposure to BSE (mad cow disease) in beef. In the U.K., there were only 177 deaths from BSE.

In 2005, Ferguson predicted that up to 150 million people could be killed from bird flu. In the end, only 282 people died worldwide from the disease between 2003 and 2009.

In 2009, a government estimate, based on Ferguson‚Äôs advice, said a ‚Äúreasonable worst-case scenario‚ÄĚ was that the swine flu would lead to 65,000 British deaths. In the end, swine flu killed 457 people in the U.K.

Last March, Ferguson admitted that his Imperial College model of the COVID-19 disease was based on undocumented, 13-year-old computer code that was intended to be used for a feared influenza pandemic, rather than a coronavirus. Ferguson declined to release his original code so other scientists could check his results. He only released a heavily revised set of code last week (beginning of May), after a six-week delay.

so, after all that, who thought it a good idea to appoint him, or pay heed to his words ?

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10 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Perhaps only if he was sacked which appears highly unlikely given the overwhelming cabinet supportive statements this afternoon (think Johnson is absent).

Public support from political colleagues means little especially when it’s from people like Gove and that chancer Shapps. We’ve seen this sort of stuff so many times before.....all this guff about their colleague doing the right thing when I’ll bet most of the Cabinet are secretly dancing a little jig of delight knowing he’s toast.

His CV’s got too many ruffled Tory feathers on there and few will be sorry to see him go.

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Posted (edited)

They are digging in now ... we are officially at "Fake News" and very close to "the Press is the Enemy of the People." 

The "including claims" and "campaigning newspapers" phrases are very cute as it implies everything else must be wrong - despite the actual evidence - if that aspect of the reporting proves not to be true. All very Trumpian in its approach. 

And why put this out now after defending the action all day Saturday? They will get absolutely skewered tomorrow over this. They could have easily pushed this latest response out until at least Monday. 

 

Apart from Cummings' fate, the bigger issue is the effect on the population's attitude to the mandated lock-down. 

Cummings.jpg

Edited by Surfer

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Make a mistake, own up and resign and it is 'yesterdays chip paper'.

Try to deny it, attempt a cover up and the harm is multiplied....if only that you come under closer scrutiny, as with Profumo.

That lesson should be well-known to Johnson ..... having been sacked very quickly when previously caught out lying.

If Johnson is not able to sack Cummings, then the question remains

Who really is in charge at number 10 ?

 

otherwise another bad day for the righties

Prtti useless idea of 14 day quarantine could be blown out of the water by simply landing passengers at Dublin the flying them into the UK

The buffoon has been made to perform another u-turn.... "Boris Johnson has been forced to cave into to Conservative backbench rebels opposed to the presence of Huawei in 5G networks

....and "A new Brexit border in the Irish Sea will not be ready by Boris Johnson’s end-of-year deadline, according to a new analysis that warns more than 60 administrations, government departments and public bodies will be involved in overseeing the new system."   - a border we were originally told would not happen

plus... "Thousands of coronavirus home testing kits have not been sent back, the Government’s testing coordinator has admitted." with only just over half returned by the last count on Friday

 

and as the Cummings story rumbles on the rats appear to be leaving the sinking ship, as another hole has been blown in that ship with two independent witnesses claiming to have seen **** 30 mile away over Easter - which once more begs the question of why did his wife claim he was lying on the bed for 10 days, and was Johnson aware that this was a lie, if so how complicit was he in this attempt at a deception ?

and the longer this drags out - the more Johnson's lack of authority is shown

 

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If only the cabinet had acted as quickly and strongly in February or early March in the early stages of the pandemic than they have now in protecting their senior advisor .....

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1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Its often not the offence but nearly always the attempted cover up that does for them.

I'm not sure how trying to cover up 'minutia' (as you described earlier) could lead something 'that does for them'

still, if hand crank can perform yet another about turn, why not you ?

hand crank sticking to his 'principles'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzkV15rf2ak

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Apologies if this has been mentioned already, is Boris, as an expert on hiding in fridges trying to turn it into a unit of measurement?

 

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25 minutes ago, Surfer said:

They are digging in now ... we are officially at "Fake News" and very close to "the Press is the Enemy of the People." 

The "including claims" and "campaigning newspapers" phrases are very cute as it implies everything else must be wrong - despite the actual evidence - if that aspect of the reporting proves not to be true. All very Trumpian in its approach. 

And why put this out now after defending the action all day Saturday? They will get absolutely skewered tomorrow over this. They could have easily pushed this latest response out until at least Monday. 

 

Apart from Cummings' fate, the bigger issue is the effect on the population's attitude to the mandated lock-down. 

Cummings.jpg

Yes into Trump playbook territory now. Everything you dont like is fake news and appeal to your ever more gullible unquestioning base.

How far we have fallen.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes into Trump playbook territory now. Everything you dont like is fake news and appeal to your ever more gullible unquestioning base.

How far we have fallen.

Oh dear, oh dear. 

Account of multiple witnesses, and confirmation of police communication. So much for that No 10 Downing Street rebuttal... 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/23/new-witnesses-cast-doubt-on-dominic-cummingss-lockdown-claims?CMP=twt_gu&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium#Echobox=1590259109

After Downing Street contradicted the official police statement and said that ‚Äúat no stage was [Cummings] or his family spoken to by the police‚ÄĚ, Durham police provided details of a conversation with Cummings‚Äô father, saying that ‚Äúat the request of Mr Cummings‚Äô father, an officer made contact‚ÄĚ and that Cummings‚Äô father confirmed his son had travelled to the property.

When Cummings was apparently recognised a second time on 19 April he was wearing his trademark beanie hat, and was heard commenting on how ‚Äúlovely‚ÄĚ the bluebells were during an early morning Sunday stroll with his wife Mary Wakefield.

The second eyewitness, who declined to be named, said: ‚ÄúWe were shocked and surprised to see him because the last time we did was earlier in the week in Downing Street.‚ÄĚ

And all these ministers put their necks on the block over this ... (but not yet Boris) .... just what ARE they afraid of ? ? ? 

Ministers.jpg

Edited by Surfer

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Surfer said:

Cummings.jpg

The conspirators stories are full of holes and No 10 have given the media the treatment it deserves --- How could so-called senior investigative journalists not see the holes and investigate further before publication? Not to mention all the papers following it blindly and seeking Dom's scalp - including the recently deceased Telegraph.

It just shows the level of both incompetence, bias and contempt present in our big media outlets.

Edited by Jools

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