Corona Virus main thread

[Mark .Y. 351]

3 hours ago, BigFish said:

That is not really in this character. He had to be taken to court to even acknowledge his last (I think!!) child and his daughter is on record as describing him as a selfish ****. He wanted to be World king and is likely to hold on to that, particularly while he retains popular support from the Boris fanboys anf girls. Ultimately it matters little whether he stays or goes, the previous Conservative Parties have gone, both the old one nation and the Thatcherite laissez-faire versions. He has remade the party as the new Brexit Party and denuded it of talent and experience.

I think he may well feel "obliged" to leave if he loses the support of the ever-influential backbench Tories.

And, I do get what your are saying but to me, he looks a tired man - weary from the pressure of power.

[Mark .Y. 351]

51 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I believe there is a shred of truth there. We have read how Spain, France, Belgium and even Sweden have fared. The best performing countries locked down the old folk in care homes, shielding them (like the care home in Sheffield where the manager asked all staff to live in the scheme. Result, restricted entry of the virus...very commendable).

Starkey's video was also interesting to watch and pointed to the focus in the NHS because of the need to connect with the red wall north.

True, also because of the lack of infrastructure for testing and gown making which have increasingly been made abroad. Plus the 'just in time' mentality we have endured (I reckon for 20 plus years, started under Thatcher, ramped by Blair and now exposed by the last 10 years of austerity).

The biggest issue is the disconnect between central and local. Big government. And big heads running big government at that. Needed a more considered and serious leadership than has been provided. As YF noted, the virus doesn't care about such things. As a result the UK has been more exposed than it should have been (i read that in terms of excess deaths the UK tops the global table).

I agree.

The more I have read about actions taken in different countries, the more I have come to the conclusion that Germany and South Korea are the "best performing" nations because they immediately protected their care home population. In my opinion, that is the one thing that really sets them apart from the likes of us, France, Italy, Spain, the USA etc, even Sweden. 

It meant that even if your trace/test/isolate plan was not 100% (which, lets be honest, none ever would be), the vast majority of the people who contracted the virus would have few or no symptoms and would not require hospitalisation.  

[sonyc 5,493]

Peru now facing a disastrous situation (hospitals at 90/95% ICU capacity) with mass graves being constructed to cope. Click to open link.

Edited May 20, 2020 by sonyc

[Ian 1,129]

1 minute ago, sonyc said:

Peru now facing a disastrous situation (hospitals at 90/95% ICU capacity) with mass graves being constructed to cope.

Awful.

[Herman 9,731]

4 hours ago, Ian said:

I find it interesting that people are suddenly worried about unification, when they and others have repeatedly referred to people who voted for Brexit with derogatory/racist terms such as "gammon" over the last few years. It's not like people have been desperate for civil conversation on here, or in the UK in general.

Perhaps the blame doesn't solely lie with the politicians, but in fact, we all bear some responsibility for our own actions?

Yes, you are right Ian and I apologise. In my rush to judgement I have forgotten who are the real victims in all this. 

[Barbe bleu 816]

59 minutes ago, Ian said:

Awful.

It gets worse as the thread continues

South America getting really bad.  seasonal element becoming apparent? Suggests that we are seeing a  brief respite over summer but still in for the long haul.

 

Flu this winter seems to have been mild.  Let's hope it's not a perfect storm come winter 20/21

[ron obvious 1,501]

https://unherd.com/2020/05/britains-national-security-council-is-a-joke/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3

 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

Just met a Lithuanian friend while out Cycling/ Angling  , he told me Lithuania  went Into lockdown 2 weeks before Ireland, so very early March. He said they've had only approximately  50 deaths from Covid19.  He was astounded at the ambivalence and mixed messages coming out of  uk during late Feb and most of March regarding movement etc.  Just fact checked and as of today total 60 confirmed  c19  deaths.... in a country of just under 3million. Transpose those figures ie x20 to approx match uk population  you reach 6000 deaths. Done pretty well for a relatively  poor country. 

[Barbe bleu 816]

8 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Just met a Lithuanian friend while out Cycling/ Angling  , he told me Lithuania  went Into lockdown 2 weeks before Ireland, so very early March. He said they've had only approximately  50 deaths from Covid19.  He was astounded at the ambivalence and mixed messages coming out of  uk during late Feb and most of March regarding movement etc.  Just fact checked and as of today total 60 confirmed  c19  deaths.... in a country of just under 3million. Transpose those figures ie x20 to approx match uk population  you reach 6000 deaths. Done pretty well for a relatively  poor country. 

I'm not sure that 19/20 x 20/22 gives you anything like 6000 deaths.

Conversely  you would have to adjust  for population density,  life expectancy and testing as well.  And that is before we look at autumn/winter 2020/21  if no vaccine is distributed 

All in all , who knows!

[Crabbycanary3 994]

19 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Just met a Lithuanian friend while out Cycling/ Angling  , he told me Lithuania  went Into lockdown 2 weeks before Ireland, so very early March. He said they've had only approximately  50 deaths from Covid19.  He was astounded at the ambivalence and mixed messages coming out of  uk during late Feb and most of March regarding movement etc.  Just fact checked and as of today total 60 confirmed  c19  deaths.... in a country of just under 3million. Transpose those figures ie x20 to approx match uk population  you reach 6000 deaths. Done pretty well for a relatively  poor country. 

Is that a new sport?

[BigFish 1,986]

3 hours ago, Mark .Y. said:

I think he may well feel "obliged" to leave if he loses the support of the ever-influential backbench Tories.

And, I do get what your are saying but to me, he looks a tired man - weary from the pressure of power.

Agree on that, I don't think the PM gig is as much fun as he thought it would be

[BigFish 1,986]

19 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

Is that a new sport?

Yep, and England are as crap at this one as all the old ones

[ricardo 7,350]

37 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

Is that a new sport?

Biking while you're Piking.

[Mark .Y. 351]

2 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

It gets worse as the thread continues

South America getting really bad.  seasonal element becoming apparent? Suggests that we are seeing a  brief respite over summer but still in for the long haul.

 

Flu this winter seems to have been mild.  Let's hope it's not a perfect storm come winter 20/21

I thought the temperature thing had been pretty much dismissed  ??

I think, in the South American places above, it is much more likely to be density of population, general poverty of a great deal of people (crowded slum areas) and lack of decent healthcare that is making it bad.

[Mark .Y. 351]

20 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Yep, and England are as crap at this one as all the old ones

I would have thought cycling and angling are two of our strengths

[Barbe bleu 816]

23 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

I thought the temperature thing had been pretty much dismissed  ??

I think, in the South American places above, it is much more likely to be density of population, general poverty of a great deal of people (crowded slum areas) and lack of decent healthcare that is making it bad.

I'm not sure temperature has been dismissed as a factor but seasonality is more than just that, it's also how humid it is, how much daylight and UV there is and how we behave

Dont disagree that certain environments are better for viruses than others but that doeant really explain  why the likes of brazil are now seeing worsening results. 

If we are to.take the graphs as a proxy for covid 19 severity (and I am not convinced it is as simple as the FT like to put it)  we cant help (rightly or wrongly) but look at the fact that the regions facing  the worse of it are all in the southern hemisphere.

 

[Crafty Canary 495]

7 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

If you voted Tory at the last GE, you voted for this.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nhs-care-workers-left-out-of-leave-to-remain-scheme-jp8dzs9p0

The Home Office has provoked outrage after leaving NHS care workers and cleaners out of a bereavement scheme that will support the families of workers who die of coronavirus.

Nevermind, 10 minutes of clapping tomorrow night at 8pm will make you feel OK.

 

I don’t recall that as a manifesto commitment.  Yet more utter bollox from one of our resident lefties.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

50 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

I would have thought cycling and angling are two of our strengths

But not at the same time!!! 

[Mark .Y. 351]

25 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I'm not sure temperature has been dismissed as a factor but seasonality is more than just that, it's also how humid it is, how much daylight and UV there is and how we behave

Dont disagree that certain environments are better for viruses than others but that doeant really explain  why the likes of brazil are now seeing worsening results. 

If we are to.take the graphs as a proxy for covid 19 severity (and I am not convinced it is as simple as the FT like to put it)  we cant help (rightly or wrongly) but look at the fact that the regions facing  the worse of it are all in the southern hemisphere.

 

Yes, I understand your seasonality points.

However, Australia and New Zealand are obviously both Southern Hemisphere countries and have done relatively well. Brazil and Ecuador have both Southern and Northern Hemiphere areas as the equator passes through them, but it is obviously close  🙂

Brazil is likely to be an outlier because of the beliefs/actions of the President but I still do believe it has more to do with population density and poverty than anything else.  

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

11 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

I don’t recall that as a manifesto commitment.  Yet more utter bollox from one of our resident lefties.

Not even the Borisboys would be as stupid as to put such a vote loser( except among the imallrightjacks) in a manifesto. Just as they are not obliged ( or intend , for that matter) to fulfill  all their manifesto.  Its Politics ,not Honesty that  they are playing. 

[Mark .Y. 351]

4 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

But not at the same time!!! 

We've more chance of succeeding at it than anybody else  🙂

 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

I'm not sure that 19/20 x 20/22 gives you anything like 6000 deaths.

Yes, me and my dodgy maths . .there has been 60 deaths in Lithuania  from c19. They have a population of just under 3 million. Which is around a twentieth of uk population.  Therefore,  if  you multiply 60 by 20  you get 1200 deaths , which is less than I previously thought which makes our 35 to 55 thousand depending on how much one trusts the govt figures, look pretty tragic. I get your point about pop density , but its still one hell of a difference per capita.

[A Load of Squit 5,139]

30 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

I don’t recall that as a manifesto commitment.  Yet more utter bollox from one of our resident lefties.

There's an oxymoron by morons for morons. 🙂

 

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Testing doubles overnight. 

200K by the end of the month even if most of them are in the post.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Not being sexist but Alex Scott on the task force for the return of sport? It is like asking Chris Goreham or Chris Kamara.

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,411]

Just now, keelansgrandad said:

Not being sexist but Alex Scott on the task force for the return of sport? It is like asking Chris Goreham or Chris Kamara.

Yes I saw that, and thought the same.

[BigFish 1,986]

1 hour ago, Mark .Y. said:

I would have thought cycling and angling are two of our strengths

You could add rowing to that as well Mark, the Australians have been gleeful in pointing out the UK is good at sports that involve sitting on our arses.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 minute ago, BigFish said:

You could add rowing to that as well Mark, the Australians have been gleeful in pointing out the UK is good at sports that involve sitting on our arses.

Angling while rowing is called Trolling.

[A Load of Squit 5,139]

They really are making it up as they go along.

BREAKING: The government has extended its bereavement scheme to NHS support staff and carers from abroad. Their families will be given indefinite leave to remain in the UK if they die, having made huge sacrifices in battling this pandemic.

 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,783]

26 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Not being sexist but Alex Scott on the task force for the return of sport? It is like asking Chris Goreham or Chris Kamara.

To be fair, neither Goreham nor Kamara were top international footballers with 100+ caps for their country.