Jump to content
Fuzzar

Corona Virus main thread

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

I was taking the dog for a walk and pondering that I hadn't seen Ricardo posting and did have a fleeting worry. Glad to hear that you were taking exercise. What sort of bike have you got? Froome is considering leaving Ineos

I'll know we are in trouble when yourself and Bill stop posting. Worth every penny of the subscription free site we are on.

Off to golf again at 12.30. Seemed to have got it worked out well at the course. As they don't want you to touch the flags, my pal and I treated ourselves to some extra long gimmes.

Its a Raleigh mountain bike. Mrs R bought it for my 50th birthday, which makes it older than many on here😁🚲

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, sonyc said:

And here comes the start of a blame game (in this case for testing shortcomings). As mentioned on here in many occasions, scientists are being dragged into the politics. Not a good look for a UK government.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-uk-lockdown-testing-therese-coffey-science-a9521626.html

I agree, ministers are responsible and they should protect those beneath them who are only doing their best in a very difficult situation. However, I dont think either side (and sides is, unfortunately, probably the best description of the vocal minorities) has got this entirely right.

Would you say it was, for instance, helpful that the government was effectively railroaded into revealing who sat on SAGE?

Experts in their field will be very reluctant to sit on an advisory board if there is an expectation that they could be held perosnally responsible.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, ricardo said:

... it kept huffing up my glasses.😉

Lovely turn of phrase......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Would you say it was, for instance, helpful that the government was effectively railroaded into revealing who sat on SAGE?

 

Maybe not helpful but you can certainly argue that by putting someone like Cummings in that mix the Government created that problem for themselves.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Experts in their field will be very reluctant to sit on an advisory board if there is an expectation that they could be held perosnally responsible.

These Tory boys would throw their own mother under a  bus if it meant saving their own skins. The next few months will be an extended game of 'whos on the outside of the clique?.....theyll do for now ,at least its not me getting the flak'.  As recriminations build they will be only to willing to point fingers. .....expect carnage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These Tory boys would throw their own mother under a  bus if it meant saving their own skins. The next few months will be an extended game of 'whos on the outside of the clique?.....theyll do for now ,at least its not me getting the flak'.  As recriminations build they will be only to willing to point fingers. .....expect carnage.

Very revealing about testing being actually just over half of what they are saying. Why do they have to lie? This virus has caused so much global confusion that they could have told the truth and been spared any condemnation. It isn't a political game unless you make it one and that is exactly what they have made it since Boris made that stupid Sunday broadcast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

And here comes the start of a blame game (in this case for testing shortcomings). As mentioned on here in many occasions, scientists are being dragged into the politics. Not a good look for a UK government.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-uk-lockdown-testing-therese-coffey-science-a9521626.html

Not a good look at all, especially since the 'we were following the scientific advice every step of the way' myth has already been well and truly debunked.

Also strange that Ms Coffey doesn't seem to have a grasp of the differing roles of advisors and decision makers but I suppose we've got to remember that this is a cabinet of sycophants chosen not for their ability, principles or intelligence but purely for their prepareness to do as they're told by Johnson.

In fact in a rather surreal way we should perhaps be grateful that at least the Chancellor seems to have grown a backbone after taking the job even though he, even more than most, originally accepted it on terms that no minister with any self respect or integrity should have even contemplated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Not a good look at all, especially since the 'we were following the scientific advice every step of the way' myth has already been well and truly debunked.

Has it?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Not a good look at all, especially since the 'we were following the scientific advice every step of the way' myth has already been well and truly debunked.

Also strange that Ms Coffey doesn't seem to have a grasp of the differing roles of advisors and decision makers but I suppose we've got to remember that this is a cabinet of sycophants chosen not for their ability, principles or intelligence but purely for their prepareness to do as they're told by Johnson.

In fact in a rather surreal way we should perhaps be grateful that at least the Chancellor seems to have grown a backbone after taking the job even though he, even more than most, originally accepted it on terms that no minister with any self respect or integrity should have even contemplated.

Agree with your drift CM.

Toynbee thinks the cabinet has been pulled together because of their Brexit stance, especially a gung ho type no deal (which presumably we are looking at?). Rishi Sunak will have a big job in navigating the UK economy ahead in any circumstances but with the addition of a 'no deal' scenario (and we don't know yet, nor what kind of trade deals are going to be possible) it will be more punitive. Tariffs will push prices up and at some stage there will be inflationary pressures ahead because of the way he has had to support the pandemic economy. All of this assumes we can indeed 'control the virus'.

Sunak is an ambitious minister and it will be interesting to see what his influence will be ahead. Equally interesting will be how (or if) Johnson supports public services ahead and UK regional inequalites given his 'levelling up' agenda given the requirement to raise taxes to start to service the debt.

HS2 costs are unravelling too and I cannot really understand the decision to keep funding something so far ahead that may effectively be out of date by the time it's completed. Another debate, yet it feeds into how it will be paid for.

Edited by sonyc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, sonyc said:

And here comes the start of a blame game (in this case for testing shortcomings). As mentioned on here in many occasions, scientists are being dragged into the politics. Not a good look for a UK government.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-uk-lockdown-testing-therese-coffey-science-a9521626.html

From the start, you could see they were being set up as the fall guys and girls. I still cannot believe that our lazy fat Prime Minister cannot drag his **** to a daily briefing. His incompetence and cowardice constantly reaches new heights.  Next he will have every Thursday as a sick day to avoid Starmer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, dj11 said:

From the start, you could see they were being set up as the fall guys and girls. I still cannot believe that our lazy fat Prime Minister cannot drag his **** to a daily briefing. His incompetence and cowardice constantly reaches new heights.  Next he will have every Thursday as a sick day to avoid Starmer.

Someone on twitter said that the reason was probably that he was furloughing himself 😉

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Agree.

Toynbee thinks the cabinet has been pulled together because of their Brexit stance, especially a gung ho type no deal (which presumably we are looking at). Rishi Sunak will have a big job in navigating the UK economy ahead in any circumstances but with the addition of a 'no deal' scenario (and we don't know yet, nor what kind of trade deals are going to be possible) it will be more punitive. Tariffs will push prices up and at some stage there will be inflationary pressures ahead because of the way he has had to support the pandemic economy. All of this assumes we can indeed 'control the virus'.

Sunak is an ambitious minister and it will be interesting to see what his influence will be ahead. Equally interesting will be how (or if) Johnson supports public services ahead and UK regional inequalites given his 'levelling up' agenda given the requirement to raise taxes to start to service the debt.

HS2 costs are unravelling too and I cannot really understand the decision to keep funding something so far ahead that may be effectively out of date by the time it's completed. Another debate, yet it feeds into how it will be paid for.

Exactly, and taking your points in reverse order, the HS2 decision was a truly bizzarre one as it made no sense at all even before the virus struck. Can only assume that it was a political decision, part of Johnson's Britain going to be great again speel, because the business case was risible. Suspect it will be quietly dropped now, we definitely can't afford it now, it won't bring any benefits in the short term (and possibly ever) and its not a particularly popular project anyway so probably the least painful way of saving a chunk of cash.

I think we can forget about the 'levelling up' agenda and IMO there never was any substance to this but it was a very clever campaigning style message which Johnson and Cummings are so good at, but will now, I imagine, also be quietly dropped. But the funding for public services will be a very interesting decision because, however much it goes against the grain I think in the current climate Johnson will find it very difficult to avoid some huge increases here, and not just to the NHS but other public services especially social care and local government generally - I imagine one of the government's mistakes which they're already finding extremely painful, even in the early stages, is the decision to throw a huge amount of money at private companies to mess up spectacularly on test, track and trace when they'd already been told that local councils could do it (properly and presumably for a lot less cash) - one of the many decisions that is going to come back to haunt them and one of the more easily avoided mistakes IMO.

The Brexit no deal will also be very interesting - it seems pretty clear that from the outset that this government was aiming for no deal, and of course we are stil very much on target on that. It is also something that, unlike so many of his promises, it will be extremely difficult for Johnson to row back on and throughout the last ten years of Tory government ideology has consistently trumped sound economics but you have to wonder, given the depth of economic trouble we are now in, whether they'd lump a no deal Brexit on top of a horrendously weak economy?

Wouldn't surprise me if they did but then it wouldn't surprise me either if they use the virus as an excuse to get a 2 year extension to the transition period - will be fascinating to see how they play it 🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish people would stick to debating Brexit, HS2 etc on other threads.

 

There's more than enough to discuss about Coronavirus, it's a once-in-a century health crisis and plenty of Govt failings to berate, but I wish people would tackle all the normal political infighting elsewhere.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Exactly, and taking your points in reverse order, the HS2 decision was a truly bizzarre one as it made no sense at all even before the virus struck. Can only assume that it was a political decision, part of Johnson's Britain going to be great again speel, because the business case was risible. Suspect it will be quietly dropped now, we definitely can't afford it now, it won't bring any benefits in the short term (and possibly ever) and its not a particularly popular project anyway so probably the least painful way of saving a chunk of cash.

I think we can forget about the 'levelling up' agenda and IMO there never was any substance to this but it was a very clever campaigning style message which Johnson and Cummings are so good at, but will now, I imagine, also be quietly dropped. But the funding for public services will be a very interesting decision because, however much it goes against the grain I think in the current climate Johnson will find it very difficult to avoid some huge increases here, and not just to the NHS but other public services especially social care and local government generally - I imagine one of the government's mistakes which they're already finding extremely painful, even in the early stages, is the decision to throw a huge amount of money at private companies to mess up spectacularly on test, track and trace when they'd already been told that local councils could do it (properly and presumably for a lot less cash) - one of the many decisions that is going to come back to haunt them and one of the more easily avoided mistakes IMO.

The Brexit no deal will also be very interesting - it seems pretty clear that from the outset that this government was aiming for no deal, and of course we are stil very much on target on that. It is also something that, unlike so many of his promises, it will be extremely difficult for Johnson to row back on and throughout the last ten years of Tory government ideology has consistently trumped sound economics but you have to wonder, given the depth of economic trouble we are now in, whether they'd lump a no deal Brexit on top of a horrendously weak economy?

Wouldn't surprise me if they did but then it wouldn't surprise me either if they use the virus as an excuse to get a 2 year extension to the transition period - will be fascinating to see how they play it 🙂

I wouldn't put money on it, but I would be very surprised if an extension was asked for. The symbolism, absurd as it is, of a clean break on December 31 2020 is more important to these fundamentalists than the piffling matter of the economy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Someone on twitter said that the reason was probably that he was furloughing himself 😉

I read that a very rare after effect was invisibility. 

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

I wish people would stick to debating Brexit, HS2 etc on other threads.

 

There's more than enough to discuss about Coronavirus, it's a once-in-a century health crisis and plenty of Govt failings to berate, but I wish people would tackle all the normal political infighting elsewhere.

I will take (some) responsibility for this ICF. And therefore, accept your request.

In mitigation, the subject of the economy is so much linked to health (as stated in the media if you have no health, you actually have no economy). Plus the chancellor's business support is all tied up to the tackling of the pandemic. And naturally, everything's related isn't it? (Brexit is too for obvious reasons, being the big focus of the government even in late January as this whole spread of the virus was seen coming by commentators.....the Big Ben celebrations etc).

Yet, I also get your point (have stayed away from the Brexit thread largely). I'm sure the C19 focus will return though because it will naturally do so and discussions on the economic tangents will be just that (until later in the year). And as for political arguments then I cannot see a time when folk won't rally around their political marker points (even folk argue on the epidemiology!).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Herman said:

I read that a very rare after effect was invisibility. 

And lots of "er" mannerisms too I read😉 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

I wish people would stick to debating Brexit, HS2 etc on other threads.

 

There's more than enough to discuss about Coronavirus, it's a once-in-a century health crisis and plenty of Govt failings to berate, but I wish people would tackle all the normal political infighting elsewhere.

Unable to let go😉😥

Expect tears before bedtime👍

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought it was quite amusing that it was Coffey discussing it. Sounded like one of Boris's seven dwarf ministers. Sneezy, No smelly, No tastey, No testy, No cluey and No-one left alive in care homey.

Piers got quite grouchy after she said she was proud of the way the Government had carried out testing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Unable to let go😉😥

Expect tears before bedtime👍

I don't know about 'letting go'  Ricardo...because we are witnessing something very important unravel in real time and people will be bound to have emotions and opinions about it.

I spent 40 years plus trying (and mostly failing, probably because it was a broader, systemic structural problem) supporting and establishing programmes for those folk who faced economic and social problems just because of where they lived or because of where they were born. I think you see such disadvantage in the system and witnessing, observing and reflecting on it shapes you as a person, influences what values are important (empathy for others etc). Ultimately, these are political. Yet, one can still work with everyone and listen and learn from people who think differently to us.

I don't expect you to feel like I do that this is an unfit government. Despite my own political leanings, I wish it was better. Other governments have also made huge mistakes and can only speak for myself but I have been equally critical.

So, what should one do? I guess it would amount to putting up and shutting up as the alternative. Yet, standing by and being passive about inequality and it's effects is not for me. This pandemic is all about inequalities in society.

Edited by sonyc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I will take (some) responsibility for this ICF. And therefore, accept your request.

In mitigation, the subject of the economy is so much linked to health (as stated in the media if you have no health, you actually have no economy). Plus the chancellor's business support is all tied up to the tackling of the pandemic. And naturally, everything's related isn't it? (Brexit is too for obvious reasons, being the big focus of the government even in late January as this whole spread of the virus was seen coming by commentators.....the Big Ben celebrations etc).

Yet, I also get your point (have stayed away from the Brexit thread largely). I'm sure the C19 focus will return though because it will naturally do so and discussions on the economic tangents will be just that (until later in the year). And as for political arguments then I cannot see a time when folk won't rally around their political marker points (even folk argue on the epidemiology!).

LOL it's fair enough and you're one of the posters who's opinion I respect,  not saying I always agree, but life would be dull if we did.

 

I do find this thread a useful source of info about Covid, there are sometimes nuggets of info here which aren't covered very well in the mainstream media.  And I'd rather not wade through debates with massive posts about HS2 or Brexit to get to them, if I can avoid it 😂

 

I've had to block one or two posters to make this thread still readable (no prizes for guessing....) c'est la vie !

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

I wish people would stick to debating Brexit, HS2 etc on other threads.

 

There's more than enough to discuss about Coronavirus, it's a once-in-a century health crisis and plenty of Govt failings to berate, but I wish people would tackle all the normal political infighting elsewhere.

Fair point.😳

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, It's Character Forming said:

LOL it's fair enough and you're one of the posters who's opinion I respect,  not saying I always agree, but life would be dull if we did.

 

I do find this thread a useful source of info about Covid, there are sometimes nuggets of info here which aren't covered very well in the mainstream media.  And I'd rather not wade through debates with massive posts about HS2 or Brexit to get to them, if I can avoid it 😂

 

I've had to block one or two posters to make this thread still readable (no prizes for guessing....) c'est la vie !

And ditto ICF. At the end of the day we are NCFC supporters though. I actually love reading all the different points of view. And agree completely that this forum is so educative, as you say, real nuggets. I don't block anyone though as I don't really get annoyed about any folk (except bad driving!) and if I hit a nerve I won't keep on picking away  at it (Trevor didn't like the RSPB for example. And that's just fine).

Ah well. What a time eh? We need something to talk about.

I still want those 5 wins! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The pandemic will colour everything for some time to come and in comparison Brexit, HS2 etc are merely farts in a thunderstorm. The fate of the government will depend as it always does on how financially secure people are feeling when the next election comes around. Four years is a long time and no amount of hand wringing and tea leaf gazing will alter that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As usual, a measured reply Ricardo. 4 more years it probably will be. We will see though.

Farts in a thunderstorm made me laugh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree about Brexit being a diversion, but surely no-one is pretending that we haven't been lied to about the crisis by our recently elected Government.

They made it political as soon as they lied.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Agree about Brexit being a diversion, but surely no-one is pretending that we haven't been lied to about the crisis by our recently elected Government.

They made it political as soon as they lied.

This.

Covid and the handling of the Covid disaster are very much linked. Sorry if it annoys people that some bring politics into the discussion but I can't see how it can be avoided.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Agree about Brexit being a diversion, but surely no-one is pretending that we haven't been lied to about the crisis by our recently elected Government.

They made it political as soon as they lied.

A politician lied you say!!!

I am shocked.

And stunned.

Yes, shocked and stunned.😉

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...