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42 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

This detailed dicussion is all very well and I am sure some of you are right some of the time, but none of it relates to the basic truth behind this pandemic, which is that it only happened because meddling doctors started testing people to see if they had this supposed virus. It was the testing that created the illness, and if they hadn't tested then no-one would have got sick, as the US's leading epidemiologist has explained in admirably clear, non-technical English:

“When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases.”

Clearly the Domestos school of intravenous medication

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11 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Hope and pray he is right.

Yes, me too. 

It doesn't mean it goes away completely but we can move on and continue to be careful.

Next is an economic model to improve on what we have had. Very good article by John Harris today in The Guardian about a newer green deal. I'm worried though we have learnt nothing about what is important in life and we go back to his things were.

I realise now just here I've found a negative in a very hopeful story. Yet, John Harris is upbeat in setting out some ideas (one being that given the level of bailout by the government, then firms start to be more socially responsible). I used (in my previous job) to work with local firms encouraging, I suppose, what you might call more 'ethical capitalism' and I know there is some appetite albeit at local level.

Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself. It's not over. Yet I'm more bullish than ever we could be seeing an end in sight....my trouble is I can never help myself trying to look ahead (sometimes then not seeing what is right before my eyes!).

 

Edited by sonyc

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"Next is an economic model to improve on what we have had. Very good article by John Harris today in The Guardian about a newer green deal. I'm worried though we have learnt nothing about what is important in life and we go back to his things were"

 

Learning nothing and not developing a greener and more socially aware society, with a greater respect for our fellow creatures and diverse habitats would be the biggest disaster of the pandemic imo.

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1 hour ago, sonyc said:

Next is an economic model to improve on what we have had. Very good article by John Harris today in The Guardian about a newer green deal. I'm worried though we have learnt nothing about what is important in life and we go back to his things were.

 

Exactly this - we have had a glimpse, in fact more than a glimpse, a pretty good preview, of just how big an improvement green policies could make to all our lives.

But do we have a government capable of learning the lessons and reversing their policies? Sadly, I don't think we do but I hope I'm wrong.

Or perhaps public perceptions have shifted enough to force their hand - not sure about that either but despite their stonking majority this a government that even in the very early stages seems extraordinarily concerned with their poll ratings, so perhaps there is a chance that we can force some commonsense into their policies.

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4 hours ago, Mark .Y. said:

Around 700 of the new cases were reported in Amarillo, where a meatpacking plant has been identified as a source of the local outbreak."

Three "hot spots" of viral spread - care homes, prisons and meatpacking plants. That is a consistent pattern across all the States. As for Texas, if 700 of the 1036 new cases were from one location that says there were only 336 other new cases in a population of 27 million. Overall Texas is doing "O.K", but there are plenty of other  States where cases are growing - Indiana, Colorado, Arizona as examples - and two States where you look at their reported (declining) numbers and you have to ask "really, how?" i.e Georgia and Florida. 

 

Edited by Surfer
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Maybe for starters we can reject products containing palm oil, now there’s a challenge!

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The first two I can understand but what happens in meatpacking plants?

 

I better add, other than people packing meat.

Edited by Herman

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8 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

And given there is very low risk we need to get the schools open asap. We cant let our kids fall further behind. It damages their future

Ben Jennings cartoon 18/05/20: schoolteacher welcomes crowd of children at gates whose collective shadow resembles a coronavirus molecule

                           crayon fodder

 

HALF a term half a term
   Half a term onward,
All in the valley of  Death
   Walked the six year olds
'Forward, the Slight Brigade!
Charge for the desks!' he said:
Into the valley of Death
   Walked the six year olds

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19 minutes ago, Herman said:

The first two I can understand but what happens in meatpacking plants?

 

I better add, other than people packing meat.

They stand next to each other for hours on end - cutting meat into the required sizes

https://civileats.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/200417-meatpacking-slaughterhouse-workers-pandemic-coronavirus-covid-19-jbs-smithfield-2-usda-1200x800.jpg

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And most of them are “undocumented” i.e. South American immigrants who can be exploited and work for wages nobody else would put up with ... also people nobody in power has to care about if they get sick....

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6 minutes ago, Surfer said:

And most of them are “undocumented” i.e. South American immigrants who can be exploited and work for wages nobody else would put up with ... also people nobody in power has to care about if they get sick....

and no 'health insurance' so they would carry on working in those conditions

 

while the thick as sh t republican 'righties' complain about all these mexicans taking their jobs

but not working out the link between cheap food and cheap labour

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4 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

This detailed dicussion is all very well and I am sure some of you are right some of the time, but none of it relates to the basic truth behind this pandemic, which is that it only happened because meddling doctors started testing people to see if they had this supposed virus. It was the testing that created the illness, and if they hadn't tested then no-one would have got sick, as the US's leading epidemiologist has explained in admirably clear, non-technical English:

“When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases.”

You say this in jest, but there were posters on this thread who refused to accept that doing 60,000 tests a day will identify more infected people than two months ago when we were doing hardly any testing at all. Those posters must, presumably, have the same plan as your US chap - stop the testing and nobody will be infected!

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On 21/03/2020 at 21:33, Indy said:

See the issue I have is that as some news outlets, drama of Coronavirus takes hold to make it sound dramatic. My question is valid, as how many were seriously ill with limited life expectations? It’s all well and good jumping on here saying four died of the Coronavirus without backing it up withal the facts, how old, what conditions were they already threatened with, we’re they already terminally ill etc.

Unfortunately death is inevitable,scaremongering is not acceptable, it’s sad that anyone has to face it, but you’re lack of compassion for those who are now faced with potentially losing their job, houses, livelihoods against your focus on Coronavirus deaths is frightening. The government and all of us are doing as we’re told, I’m out of work for possibly years as some others, working for myself in my industry along with millions of others, now facing massive stresses, please forgive me if I don’t share your narrow view.

oh dear

Edited by Bill

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38 minutes ago, Bill said:

oh dear

Oh dear indeed. Now if you are one who holds to this "we shouldn't overreact and people die every day" philosophy, then it's time to host an "adult chat" and explain where the deaths are occurring, where they are not occurring and why it's safe to go back to work.

The problem is, once you have been found out to be a serial liar, it's rather difficult to get anyone to believe you; that said no one can believe you if you don't even try and have that chat; relying on ever more fantastical stories why everything is fine will not work

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1 hour ago, Aggy said:

You say this in jest, but there were posters on this thread who refused to accept that doing 60,000 tests a day will identify more infected people than two months ago when we were doing hardly any testing at all. Those posters must, presumably, have the same plan as your US chap - stop the testing and nobody will be infected!

I suspect the American scientist was making the point that those who test most will appear to have the most cases and that there will be nations with a far greater problem that is being overlooked.  Perhaps he was subtly referring  to certain South American neighbours?

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1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

I suspect the American scientist was making the point that those who test most will appear to have the most cases and that there will be nations with a far greater problem that is being overlooked.  Perhaps he was subtly referring  to certain South American neighbours?

err, no.......it was Trump, as

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/15/21259888/trump-coronavirus-testing-very-few-cases

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2 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

I suspect the American scientist was making the point that those who test most will appear to have the most cases and that there will be nations with a far greater problem that is being overlooked.  Perhaps he was subtly referring  to certain South American neighbours?

There has never been anything subtle about this ‘scientist’.

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I wonder if the new green deal will include 300 000 new immigrants every year.

Maybe they will be using green concrete to cover the countryside.

Maybe they can squeeze us into ever smaller box's and gardens, who needs a garden!

I bet you can't wait for the increase in road building and congestion, oh congestion how us Brits love congestion.

I can hear Blighty breathing a sigh of relief " oh please, more humans is what I need"!

The flora and fauna is pi SS ing itself with excitement. The animals and insects are having a welcoming party. " More pollution, awesome"

Tell me is this green deal going to be a bit like us shipping all our industry abroad so that we can utilise other countries lax health and safety and poor pay and conditions and then shout from the worktops , look at us we are clean and green and we burn no coal!!

I wonder whether even the left will come to love bendy Boris the shape shifter.

Edited by Bagster

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9 hours ago, Bill said:

oh dear

Really oh dear.....it’s still no where near as big a killer as previous pandemics, those who catch it and are under the age of 60 are 99% safe, get anything from a mild symptoms to a couple weeks of feeling rough. 95% of those who have died were either over 80, most with at least one or more serious underlying health conditions, funny that people still believe the scaremongering from social media.

Thats the reality, this virus is taking out mainly the weak, elderly Or vulnerable, that’s very sad, my thoughts to all the families effected, my thoughts to all the nhs staff put in very sad and tough times, but figures to now aren’t the massive 250,000 to 500,000 first sensationalised by the press. Now back to my point, we’re now seeing thousands losing their livelihoods, rising depression, mental health and worries on the future.

I’m behind the government’s measures and I agree with they way they’re going about easing the lockdown, if you’re vulnerable then carry on locking yourselves away, you know by now which group your in, the rest of us can weigh up the risk and either accept it or not. Last there are treatments now being developed which have shown to prevent the viruses severity and starting to shorten hospital times, these will continue to be developed, even if there’s a small chance we have to live with this virus for a few years, life will go on and we will go back to normality of sorts, that’s just how it is.

I’m finally back at work after 7 weeks without earning and glad to be so.

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9 hours ago, Surfer said:

Oh dear indeed. Now if you are one who holds to this "we shouldn't overreact and people die every day" philosophy, then it's time to host an "adult chat" and explain where the deaths are occurring, where they are not occurring and why it's safe to go back to work.

The problem is, once you have been found out to be a serial liar, it's rather difficult to get anyone to believe you; that said no one can believe you if you don't even try and have that chat; relying on ever more fantastical stories why everything is fine will not work

That was a quote taken back at the start of lockdown Surfer, between me and KG. Not sure why City 1st has dragged it up, but actually good time to bring it up as we’re nearly four months down the line. Still I’m sure because I have a different view to others and I see the long term issue for our children and grandchildren as well as those at risk now and if that angers a few then, sorry but that’s how I see things.

Ive lost my young 33 year old sister to liver failure, my wife gone through stage 2 breast cancer, I have very good friend who passed at 54 with a heart attack.....people unfortunately die, maybe it’s hardened me to accept death is just part of life and when it’s your time you will go.

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8 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

There has never been anything subtle about this ‘scientist’.

Oh its trump isn't it? Its 50/50 if he said something bonkers or incisive.

Does stand though that some countries are likely really suffering but we just dont have the data to show how much.  Brazil is the prime candidate, the demographics are far more favourable than in europe I suspect but as they enter 'winter's its  not looking good.

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15 hours ago, Van wink said:

"Next is an economic model to improve on what we have had. Very good article by John Harris today in The Guardian about a newer green deal. I'm worried though we have learnt nothing about what is important in life and we go back to his things were"

 

Learning nothing and not developing a greener and more socially aware society, with a greater respect for our fellow creatures and diverse habitats would be the biggest disaster of the pandemic imo.

John Harris by far my favourite Grauniad journo.

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2 hours ago, Indy said:

That was a quote taken back at the start of lockdown Surfer, between me and KG. Not sure why City 1st has dragged it up, but actually good time to bring it up as we’re nearly four months down the line. Still I’m sure because I have a different view to others and I see the long term issue for our children and grandchildren as well as those at risk now and if that angers a few then, sorry but that’s how I see things.

Ive lost my young 33 year old sister to liver failure, my wife gone through stage 2 breast cancer, I have very good friend who passed at 54 with a heart attack.....people unfortunately die, maybe it’s hardened me to accept death is just part of life and when it’s your time you will go.

It was brought up after a comment about how people attitude was back less than couple of months ago, not nearly four months ago.

Yours was one of extreme concern about yourself and money.. And it is nonsense to say as people die all the time we should accept it.

We all have different priorotes and values - however it does no harm to remind us where each of us stand.

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46 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

John Harris by far my favourite Grauniad journo.

He's very good- anywhere but Westminster has always been a really interesting series. 

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3 hours ago, Bagster said:

Tell me is this green deal going to be a bit like us shipping all our industry abroad so that we can utilise other countries lax health and safety and poor pay and conditions and then shout from the worktops , look at us we are clean and green and we burn no coal!!

err, no

that was the point of brexit so we could do it to our own country

 

ps I hope you have followed your own 'advice' and moved back to the UK

Rennes, wasn't it ?

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Next is an economic model to improve on what we have had. Very good article by John Harris today in The Guardian about a newer green deal. I'm worried though we have learnt nothing about what is important in life and we go back to his things were"

 

Learning nothing and not developing a greener and more socially aware society, with a greater respect for our fellow creatures and diverse habitats would be the biggest disaster of the pandemic imo.

I'm worried on two fronts about this. Those with so much money at stake will not let it happen and those with the couldn't give a siht as long as I can have my nails done.

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The problem is we don't have a PM who is renowned for sticking to his 'promises - in fact quite the opposite

However, as with smog, smoking and lead in petrol much will disappear through the cost.

And with renewable energy it also comes down to security. Not only are fossil fuels running out, but maybe it is a good idea NOT to be dependent on Putin and Sheik your money.

Of course there will be the usual howls from the righties as in the US against universal healthcare - but their squeaks will diminish in volume as their views become more irrelevant.

In London there became a need for people to travel underground to avoid the congestion in the streets. The answer now is to simply remove that congestion. Much as with HS2 which is already an outdated concept, still more than a decade from any suggestion of completion.

The righties utopia of smog, rickets and 10 Woodbines is a world that won't come back, however much they bleat.

Edited by Bill

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A loss of sense of smell and taste now added to the list of Covid symptoms. Only taken a month or so but hey ho. 

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6 minutes ago, Herman said:

A loss of sense of smell and taste now added to the list of Covid symptoms. Only taken a month or so but hey ho. 

Indeed Hermano! I've  been reading about that particular  symptom for weeks now. Had no idea that it hadn't  been  ' ratified ' so to speak. 

In  Boris some Trust. 

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10 minutes ago, Herman said:

A loss of sense of smell and taste now added to the list of Covid symptoms. Only taken a month or so but hey ho. 

They've been concentrating on common sense, it's the new 6th sense.

 

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