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11 minutes ago, T said:

Fully agree with that well written piece Sonyc. The contrast in approach I’m seeing on a daily basis is appalling. Teachers is another example where elsewhere it is dealt with by agreement and consultation  rather than central imposition. This was a government that was elected based on ideology lies slogans and soundbites rather than boring practical reality and it is being horribly exposed. 

Thank you T. The real truth though for me is that I wish it wasn't being exposed for what is happening. I can accept failures, mis-steps. No government is perfect. No government in modern times has had to deal with something like this. Yet, on how not to handle something, to me anyway, this is what you do. It's harder and harder to defend.

I'm a bit old fashioned and perhaps deferential in trying to be a good citizen. Many people are. It's something about the English psyche ... in part (that keep calm cr*p).

I want a government to act the role of a decent parent (psychologically I mean). If it does this successfully then I know society I live in will be alright. With austerity and denuding of public services and this current lot, I'm less convinced our UK society is going the right way. I see big civil disruptions ahead. I want a quiet life!

Apologies for this perhaps pseudo-psychological post. Time to come off a forum and enjoy the day!

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15 minutes ago, T said:

Fully agree with that well written piece Sonyc. The contrast in approach I’m seeing on a daily basis is appalling. Teachers is another example where elsewhere it is dealt with by agreement and consultation  rather than central imposition. This was a government that was elected based on ideology lies slogans and soundbites rather than boring practical reality and it is being horribly exposed. 

T, I know you are busy old boy(girl?) but try and find time to answer the questions. It adds substance to your pov. As you have said previously, debate is healthy.

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Well I’m clearly not busy like a lot of people at the moment. Hopefully work restarts next week but not expecting much until after summer holidays.

 

i fully agree I’m all up for robust debate bacause sometimes I do read something that contradicts my views which I haven’t thought of and it changes my views which is a good thing.  But the absolute headbangers and specific personal abuse are on ignore or I just scroll past to be honest so i will try and answer honest questions and challenges but there is some not worth bothering with. Normally most people you can find some common ground with but social media and politics is very polarised. 

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I read this forum a lot. Who are the headbangers and where is the specific personal abuse. Please let me know as that is unacceptable and I'll block them to. All seems fairly friendly and tame to me. 

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43 minutes ago, T said:

Well I’m clearly not busy like a lot of people at the moment. Hopefully work restarts next week but not expecting much until after summer holidays.

 

i fully agree I’m all up for robust debate bacause sometimes I do read something that contradicts my views which I haven’t thought of and it changes my views which is a good thing.  But the (1)absolute headbangers and specific personal abuse are on ignore or I just scroll past to be honest so i will try and answer honest questions and challenges but (2)there is some not worth bothering with. Normally most people you can find some common ground with but social media and politics is very polarised. 

(1) Oh I see, do you mean people that don't agree with you and challenge your opinion and ask you to justify those comments? Who exactly are you talking about btw?

(2) Because they call you out and will make your original comments look silly? 

"Clearly a lot here would rather just people died than hear the truth" Wow, what sort of intellectual level are you on? That is an all time low, even for you.

You are so desperate to have people join you on your self appointed pedestal, and when people don't match your views, you resort to some incredible retorts and personal insults of your own. I thought you would have realised from a few years ago. You have learned nothing.

 

 

Edited by Crabbycanary3
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17 minutes ago, C Goodenough said:

I read this forum a lot. Who are the headbangers and where is the specific personal abuse. Please let me know as that is unacceptable and I'll block them to. All seems fairly friendly and tame to me. 

That's a fair comment CG. I haven't (to my knowledge!) had any problems with anyone on here, and I have knocked around here for a few years now. 

I do not have a problem at all with people's views differing to my own, but this is not what my, and now other's,  issue with T is about.

I have never crossed swords with Bill for example, not even come close (sorry Bill but I am using you as an example of someone who has had their fair amount of 'ding dongs' on here, but there are others of course) . That is not, patently, because I do not want to challenge him/them, on the contrary, I am a person who will happily stand up for good values, common decency, respect and morals, and I will stand, face to face and challenge anyone whom I can show is betraying the most basic of human behaviour.  T lives in a bubble and despite his/her protestations that he/she is a person for all people, regularly shows him/her self up as one eyed and contradictory. I am just one , of a few on here, who have spoken against that.

 

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I don't think there are any "headbangers" here. Take a look at other football forums and see the difference.

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3 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I don't think there are any "headbangers" here. Take a look at other football forums and see the difference.

I dunno,I'm quite partial to a bit of Motorhead  now and again. 

Edited by wcorkcanary
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8 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

That's a fair comment CG. I haven't (to my knowledge!) had any problems with anyone on here, and I have knocked around here for a few years now. 

I do not have a problem at all with people's views differing to my own, but this is not what my, and now other's,  issue with T is about.

I have never crossed swords with Bill for example, not even come close (sorry Bill but I am using you as an example of someone who has had their fair amount of 'ding dongs' on here, but there are others of course) . That is not, patently, because I do not want to challenge him/them, on the contrary, I am a person who will happily stand up for good values, common decency, respect and morals, and I will stand, face to face and challenge anyone whom I can show is betraying the most basic of human behaviour.  T lives in a bubble and despite his/her protestations that he/she is a person for all people, regularly shows him/her self up as one eyed and contradictory. I am just one , of a few on here, who have spoken against that.

 

So you have a problem with me being against racism xenophobia and islamophobia and against those who prioritised nationalism over healthcare and ignore and think they know better than experts but you have no problem with racists, xenophobics, islamophobics, those who prioritised nationalism over healthcare and those who think they know better than experts damaging the UK then? Over 50,000 have people have died and the government has been incompetent in comparison with elsewhere and you have a problem that I don't approve of that?. Because those are my fundamental points but of course you are entitled to disagree with them if you prefer extremism, ignorance, stupidity and the job losses and excess deaths that result then of course you are entitled to take your high horse that you know better.   

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45 minutes ago, C Goodenough said:

I read this forum a lot. Who are the headbangers and where is the specific personal abuse. Please let me know as that is unacceptable and I'll block them to. All seems fairly friendly and tame to me. 

The prime culprits are on the Brexit thread  where there are some hard right extremists propogating some very scary views. and i think if you don't realise that right wing extremists are viewed as a major threat in the Uk and elsewhere then I think you will find the police and oher authorities in a lot of countries take a different view.  Are you honestly saying that racism isn't still a problem in the UK and elsewhere and that these people don't propogate their views on scoial media because I'm  sorry but you are being very naive if you think that is the case. 

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10 minutes ago, T said:

So you have a problem with me being against racism xenophobia and islamophobia and against those who prioritised nationalism over healthcare and ignore and think they know better than experts but you have no problem with racists, xenophobics, islamophobics, those who prioritised nationalism over healthcare and those who think they know better than experts damaging the UK then? Over 50,000 have people have died and the government has been incompetent in comparison with elsewhere and you have a problem that I don't approve of that?. Because those are my fundamental points but of course you are entitled to disagree with them if you prefer extremism, ignorance, stupidity and the job losses and excess deaths that result then of course you are entitled to take your high horse that you know better.   

No, that is not what I have ever said or even hinted at. For you to say anything approaching that is a perfect example of the person you are. 

You know, fundamentally you might be an ok person in real life, but you are desperate to be recognised and when people don't immediately climb on board , or throw up a challenge, with your opinions, you can't handle it, and push the limits, and step over them at times. I'm just calling you out, I am not the only one.

When you resort to comments like "Clearly a lot here would rather just people died than hear the truth", you clearly have no moral boundaries, and you lose the respect you pursue with other opinions, so do not give me this faux lecture on who or what you think my problems are with.

Edited by Crabbycanary3
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8 minutes ago, T said:

The prime culprits are on the Brexit thread  where there are some hard right extremists propogating some very scary views. and i think if you don't realise that right wing extremists are viewed as a major threat in the Uk and elsewhere then I think you will find the police and oher authorities in a lot of countries take a different view.  Are you honestly saying that racism isn't still a problem in the UK and elsewhere and that these people don't propogate their views on scoial media because I'm  sorry but you are being very naive if you think that is the case. 

Where did I or anyone say racism isn't a problem. See my other responses to you on other threads where I told you I see it regularly. 

Why would you suggest that I don't and am being naive? That is just odd. 

Again who are the prime culprits if it's that extreme and scary. You are making bold statements that are just unacceptable. 

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33 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I don't think there are any "headbangers" here. Take a look at other football forums and see the difference.

I went on a Leeds forum once. The level of effing swearing makes as look like a bunch of effing nuns. And it felt as if they had lost every game 10-0. The effers.😀

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19 minutes ago, T said:

So you have a problem with me being against racism xenophobia and islamophobia and against those who prioritised nationalism over healthcare and ignore and think they know better than experts but you have no problem with racists, xenophobics, islamophobics, those who prioritised nationalism over healthcare and those who think they know better than experts damaging the UK then? Over 50,000 have people have died and the government has been incompetent in comparison with elsewhere and you have a problem that I don't approve of that?. Because those are my fundamental points but of course you are entitled to disagree with them if you prefer extremism, ignorance, stupidity and the job losses and excess deaths that result then of course you are entitled to take your high horse that you know better.   

No one said that at all. I really don't think anyone has a problem with you being against racism etc... You are making that up. 

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25 minutes ago, C Goodenough said:

No one said that at all. I really don't think anyone has a problem with you being against racism etc... You are making that up. 

👍👌 A bit of Don Quixote syndrome methinks.  Charging at imaginary dragons....  that turn out to be windmills 

 

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54 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

No, that is not what I have ever said or even hinted at. For you to say anything approaching that is a perfect example of the person you are. 

You know, fundamentally you might be an ok person in real life, but you are desperate to be recognised and when people don't immediately climb on board , or throw up a challenge, with your opinions, you can't handle it, and push the limits, and step over them at times. I'm just calling you out, I am not the only one.

When you resort to comments like "Clearly a lot here would rather just people died than hear the truth", you clearly have no moral boundaries, and you lose the respect you pursue with other opinions, so do not give me this faux lecture on who or what you think my problems are with.

I have a problem with all the excess deaths and ignoring experts. It seems others don't have a problem with the excess deaths and ignoring experts becasue they react act agresssively to me pointing out the poor performance of the UK compared to some other countries. Now I fully get you don't like me and my views and I've absolutely no problem with that. I have numerous intelligent humerous friends and coleagues so it is no loss to me. I express my views in strong terms but we are talking about excess deaths, a poorly performing givernment, ignoring experts and examples of racism and you decide to obsessively attack me rather than these people so I question your motivations. If you have a problem with the substance then come up with some substance. Bizarre. If you still have a problem I suggest ignore user and or scrolling down or there are pleny of forums for people with similar views which you may prefer. I'm sure some on the Brexit thread can recommend some. The Daily Mail and Daily Express should be fine for starters. 

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Nobody has attacked anyone why say that again. I've not seen anything like that. 

You generally attack by calling people racist but can't name one and take some odd moral high ground that make no sense. Again I ask who are the racists so I can ignore them. 

 

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I've explained it a number of times. Please feel free to read up about racism if you don't believe me. 

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1 minute ago, T said:

I've explained it a number of times. Please feel free to read up about racism if you don't believe me. 

I think he knows what racism is , just wants a straight answer to a straight question.....who are these racists?  Every poster has a name , some more than one apparently. 

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Just now, wcorkcanary said:

I think he knows what racism is , just wants a straight answer to a straight question.....who are these racists?  Every poster has a name , some more than one apparently. 

I've asked that very question before, and (s)he doesn't want to name anybody because (s)he know what that could lead to

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Classic whataboutery. Are you seriously suggesting that racism and xenophobia isn't a problem in society and that it wasn't used in the Brexit debate. Of course it exists in society and of course there are racists and xenophobics and islaophobics on here promoting their views. It is naive to suggest otherwise.  

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Just now, T said:

Classic whataboutery. Are you seriously suggesting that racism and xenophobia isn't a problem in society and that it wasn't used in the Brexit debate. Of course it exists in society and of course there are racists and xenophobics and islaophobics on here promoting their views. It is naive to suggest otherwise.  

Name them

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3 minutes ago, T said:

I have a problem with all the excess deaths and ignoring experts. It seems others don't have a problem with the excess deaths and ignoring experts becasue they react act agresssively to me pointing out the poor performance of the UK compared to some other countries. Now I fully get you don't like me and my views and I've absolutely no problem with that. I have numerous intelligent humerous friends and coleagues so it is no loss to me. I express my views in strong terms but we are talking about excess deaths, a poorly performing givernment, ignoring experts and examples of racism and you decide to obsessively attack me rather than these people so I question your motivations. If you have a problem with the substance then come up with some substance. Bizarre. If you still have a problem I suggest ignore user and or scrolling down or there are pleny of forums for people with similar views which you may prefer. I'm sure some on the Brexit thread can recommend some. The Daily Mail and Daily Express should be fine for starters. 

FML,  here you go again.

I can't keep pointing out the same things over and over again but you don't actually read what I say, because it doesn't suit your agenda, and you are too far down the track with this to change it. Get your numerous intelligent humerous friends and colleagues  to try and explain. You know, I did ignore how you were talking a few years ago, as I genuinely thought you were too young in Worldly ways but having seen some of the stuff you have put out recently, I choose not to ignore this, as you have not progressed at all (again this is NOT about your views). I've underlined and put into bold, the word NOT to try and get it through to you. 

I have not challenged/agreed/disagreed with your views. That , I know, will dilute your rant somewhat, but that's your problem, not mine.

You have no idea, but make numerous presumptions, on mine and others views as some of us have not given you substance, but we don't have  to (you don't comment on certain other posts, is it because you agree with the poster or accept 'superior/informed' knowledge?) , but bizarrely that seems to give you the right to form an opinion on what we must think. Not everything is black and white T. You have no idea what we do away from this message board in our lives, but this hasn't stopped you making accusations, derogatory remarks and sweeping statements to try and validate your thoughts, but you go too far with these and that certainly takes away your credibility. 

You could choose to ignore me/scroll by, of course, that is your perogative, but that would go against your remit of always striving to seek further enlightenment/education from others, would it not, or have I got that wrong?

If you feel you are not getting much support on here or you strongly feel you are dealing with a lot of racists, xenophobes etc etc, then there are plenty of other forums for people of similar views to yours, which you may prefer. You have this overwhelming desire to spread your word, which you are entitled to do, but a football forum, that a minute percentage of the British population uses, may not be the best platform for you, just saying. Having been on here for a few years, you really must be pulling your hair out?

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6 minutes ago, T said:

Classic whataboutery. Are you seriously suggesting that racism and xenophobia isn't a problem in society and that it wasn't used in the Brexit debate. Of course it exists in society and of course there are racists and xenophobics and islaophobics on here promoting their views. It is naive to suggest otherwise.  

It's an insult to me to suggest I read up on racism. Why would you suggest that I read up on it. 

Again nobody suggested it's not a problem. You are making that up. 

I'm sure you'll say no or ignore it as you will say it's personal but can I ask a question. Where geographically do you live in the UK? And do you feel the UK is worse than any other many countries you have visited? 

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I get you don’t like me or my style so there is no need to repeat it ad nauseum but I’m interested in the substance and you have nothing of interest or  substance to say. I’ve said numerous times that I obviously don’t get to watch football live and I’m just a football punter with no football expertise and I’ve no doubt lots of people know more about football than I do so I’ve nothing of substance to add. This is a coronavirus thread. It is the hot topic of today and many a day. People can easily ignore it and me so I don’t understand your obsession.
 

The UK has done appalling compared to Germany and of course I follow what is happening on a daily basis and I’m exasperated by what i see happening in the UK on a daily basis and that people ignore experts and think they know better.  I want better for the UK but others hate the comparison and would rather  pit their heads head in the sand.

 

 I think people should be concerned with the substance of that but clearly you are more bothered about the style. The UK has some fundament issues to address and it won’t learn  if it attacks the style and ignores the substance. Substance is more important than form and I’m afraid you and Boris and the UK government is more concerned with style rather than substance which is a real problem which is costing lives and jobs. 

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2 hours ago, sonyc said:

I don't think there are any "headbangers" here. Take a look at other football forums and see the difference.

That's a fair point in some ways although I would like to think (perhaps naively) that we aspire to higher standards than the average football fan (never mind some of the worst) so I don't find the 'well we're not as bad as them argument' all that convincing.

Its a bit like @Mark .Y. desperately trying to construct a defence of this government's handling of the virus crisis by suggesting that our performance maybe wasn't quite as bad as Italy or Spain.

We would normally compare this country's performance to Germany, France or perhaps Holland and the Nordic countries, i.e. other fairly similar European countries. Frankly if you tried to convince most people that we have a competent government because we are doing slightly better than Italy and Spain then they would assume (quite rightly) that you were taking the p1ss!

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26 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

That's a fair point in some ways although I would like to think (perhaps naively) that we aspire to higher standards than the average football fan (never mind some of the worst) so I don't find the 'well we're not as bad as them argument' all that convincing.

Its a bit like @Mark .Y. desperately trying to construct a defence of this government's handling of the virus crisis by suggesting that our performance maybe wasn't quite as bad as Italy or Spain.

We would normally compare this country's performance to Germany, France or perhaps Holland and the Nordic countries, i.e. other fairly similar European countries. Frankly if you tried to convince most people that we have a competent government because we are doing slightly better than Italy and Spain then they would assume (quite rightly) that you were taking the p1ss!

Yeah, that's a fine point to make CM. I wasn't really saying we are not the same as those boards though as a cheap throwaway, even though it might have appeared that way. Short posts are neat but sometimes you cannot get to the meaning.

My aim was to say (to T mainly, though I really cannot be bothered to get into rambling disagreements on here) that most people have strong views but rarely do they become ultra-abusive. I don't think this MB becomes crude. To intimate or comment about posters being racist just polarises. Very unhelpful. And it either needs to be challenged or, one says nowt.

I have come to know where peoples' politics lie over the last 2 or 3 months (never bothered too much before ....I left the old Brexit discussion early on... been on this board since 2004). So, I accept everyone and intuitively know where they're coming from. It's all fine. Loads of good humour, lots of intelligence.

 

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14 minutes ago, T said:

I get you don’t like me or my style so there is no need to repeat it ad nauseum but I’m interested in the substance and you have nothing of interest or  substance to say. I’ve said numerous times that I obviously don’t get to watch football live and I’m just a football punter with no football expertise and I’ve no doubt lots of people know more about football than I do so I’ve nothing of substance to add. This is a coronavirus thread. It is the hot topic of today and many a day. People can easily ignore it and me so I don’t understand your obsession.
 

The UK has done appalling compared to Germany and of course I follow what is happening on a daily basis and I’m exasperated by what i see happening in the UK on a daily basis and that people ignore experts and think they know better.  I want better for the UK but others hate the comparison and would rather  pit their heads head in the sand.

 

 I think people should be concerned with the substance of that but clearly you are more bothered about the style. The UK has some fundament issues to address and it won’t learn  if it attacks the style and ignores the substance. Substance is more important than form and I’m afraid you and Boris and the UK government is more concerned with style rather than substance which is a real problem which is costing lives and jobs. 

You think I am more concerned about style over substance, just because I haven't given you some answers? Like I said before, you have  one eyed view of things, to suit your pseudo concerns for the UK. If you understand my messages, don't use the substance argument to try and curry  points scoring, as you have previously.

To use your own words, perhaps, myself and others are just 'punters' and others may know more about subjects (Coronavirus?) than some, and we 'may' not have any thing of substance to what has already been commented on. There's one train of thought for a start, hey? 

You show your total ignorance in that last paragraph. Don't presume. 

I have said, you're probably an ok person really, but you desperately crave validity and recognition to bolster your own self worth. 

I presume (?) you are a member of a lot of other (non football) forums where you would get a wider response  to subjects such as Coronavirus and Brexit, than you do on a Norwich City FC fans forum? 

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3 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Yeah, that's a fine point to make CM. I wasn't really saying we are not the same as those boards though as a cheap throwaway, even though it might have appeared that way. Short posts are neat but sometimes you cannot get to the meaning.

My aim was to say (to T mainly, though I really cannot be bothered to get into rambling disagreements on here) that most people have strong views but rarely do they become ultra-abusive. I don't think this MB becomes crude. To intimate or comment about posters being racist just polarises. Very unhelpful. And it either needs to be challenged or, one says nowt.

I have come to know where peoples' politics lie over the last 2 or 3 months (never bothered too much before ....I left the old Brexit discussion early on... been on this board since 2004). So, I accept everyone and intuitively know where they're coming from. It's all fine. Loads of good humour, lots of intelligence.

 

Agree sonyc.

 I also have not looked at the Brexit thread for a few years now.

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Just now, Crabbycanary3 said:

Agree sonyc.

 I also have not looked at the Brexit thread for a few years now.

Good call!

Yet I now feel guilty in that I responded this very morning. Of all things about fishing! (Not Corky type fishing but the quotas kind). I had seen a TV piece and replied.

But having said that, in finding a link to that media story I found an amazing article detailing in great depth just how the fishing industry in this country has declined. So, not a waste of time🙂

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