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2 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

We’ve discussed response ad-nauseum. We get it... “ToRIes bAD”...

What's this got to do with being a Tory - the criticism of this government acting as it has would be the same whatever colour it was.

Then again I guess most of the competent Tories left the party  a year ago.

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9 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Couldnt agree more TvB, a good place for NCFC to start would be those horrendous nylon nightmares called replica shirts. 

Or at least a regulation which says you can only change a home shirt every 2 or 3 years rather than every season. 

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7 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Or at least a regulation which says you can only change a home shirt every 2 or 3 years rather than every season. 

I was referring more to the Sweat shop side of the Manufacture of these items, along with their non suitability as casual wear. Can't disagree with your longevity point tho TvB.

Edited by wcorkcanary

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50 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

The big problem being ignored is that the world under the current go anywhere you want in a day has created a dangerous state, another pandemic will be inevitable.

While I would have agreed had you said the current ‘go anywhere you want in a day’ has meant things move faster, I’m not sure that is what makes a pandemic inevitable. Pandemics have happened throughout history. Bubonic plague spread largely as a result of rats with fleas travelling on ships in the middle of the fourteenth century - that’s not because people could travel anywhere in a day.

What’s more likely to make another pandemic inevitable are things such as people eating meat (in particular cheap ‘unusual’ meat), antibacterial resistance growing etc.

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47 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Yes I think they need to rewind globalism, travel less, manufacture more locally, as long this is done in a positive light e.g. being more environmentally conscious (rather than nationalism and outright protectionism) and realising that we need to stop buying endless useless poorly made junk, pay a bit more for better quality and identify that we've gone too far with the endless pursuit of cheap disposable 'stuff' from Primark, Poundland and Sports Direct made by people on 70 pence an hour. It should be replaced by buying higher quality goods and then looking after them properly. like they did in the old days.

But we'll need to invest a fortune in tarting up Blackpool and Great Yarmouth up if you expect the Jones'es to go there instead of Costa Blanca. 

In the old days there were lots of people who didn’t have any stuff because the stuff was too expensive.

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9 minutes ago, T said:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200505-why-its-so-hard-to-be-rational-about-covid-19
 

very good explanation of why people think they do here. There are some people here (and that other popular thread) with a very big amygdala 

It's been pointed out before, perhaps you missed it last time, but if you care to go to the start of the first Wuhan thread on this forum you can see that those raising the issue and calling for government action were the very same people that were supporting Brexit on the other threads. So the hard evidence doesn't support your snarky, little post, but good try anyway.

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25 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

What's this got to do with being a Tory - the criticism of this government acting as it has would be the same whatever colour it was.

Then again I guess most of the competent Tories left the party  a year ago.

You ignored everything else I said and just went after the thing about the tories.

Living in your head, rent free.

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8 minutes ago, Aggy said:

While I would have agreed had you said the current ‘go anywhere you want in a day’ has meant things move faster, I’m not sure that is what makes a pandemic inevitable. Pandemics have happened throughout history. Bubonic plague spread largely as a result of rats with fleas travelling on ships in the middle of the fourteenth century - that’s not because people could travel anywhere in a day.

What’s more likely to make another pandemic inevitable are things such as people eating meat (in particular cheap ‘unusual’ meat), antibacterial resistance growing etc.

Not sure about the 'meat' eating part - after-all the rats didn't care!

But yes - pandemic frequency is I think ultimately is simply a function of human population.

You can run but never hide...

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7 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Not sure about the 'meat' eating part - after-all the rats didn't care!

But yes - pandemic frequency is I think ultimately is simply a function of human population.

You can run but never hide...

Plenty of diseases (possibly covid if this bat eating thing is correct but plenty of others as well) have likely been transmitted to humans by them eating animals. If we didn’t eat animals or keep them for domesticated farming etc fewer diseases would spread (but I do like a bacon butty so difficult one to weigh up!)

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22 minutes ago, Aggy said:

In the old days there were lots of people who didn’t have any stuff because the stuff was too expensive.

I think you'll find that poverty still very much exists, last month I donated a microwave to somebody who has no means of heating food and they sleep on a mattress on the floor.

That doesn't change the fact that I think that disposable fashion has gone too far, people who aren't in abject poverty seem not to care about planned obsolescence either. They don't care that their Apple phone will seize to function in a few years, because they sign up to getting upgrades every 2 years. 

We consume too much unnecessarily and you haven't put up an argument against that. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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The unfairness in our society and addiction to “stuff” is a huge issue. This isn’t a political issue, this is a societal issue.

 

If you want a stark example of it go to San Francisco or Silicon Valley in California. The most liberal place in America and billionaires share the streets with homeless people hooked on the most horrendous drugs. 
 

Anyone here studied the fall of Rome? We seem to be taking that global.

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23 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

It's been pointed out before, perhaps you missed it last time, but if you care to go to the start of the first Wuhan thread on this forum you can see that those raising the issue and calling for government action were the very same people that were supporting Brexit on the other threads. So the hard evidence doesn't support your snarky, little post, but good try anyway.

Another fail as usual. You act like it was a secret. How did they know? Are they Chinese doctors? They knew because it was widely reported in the news. Why because the WHO who they are criticisng was raising their concerns loud and clear. And clearly you have not read hte article because your comment is consistent with what is reported that the hard right have their views becasue they are scared of the outside world. Also to be fair if you have a pre-existing condition and are retired and have more time to follow this stuff you are going to be more concerned. But it is comical how your comments support the findings in the report. 

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24 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

The unfairness in our society and addiction to “stuff” is a huge issue. This isn’t a political issue, this is a societal issue.

If you want a stark example of it go to San Francisco or Silicon Valley in California. The most liberal place in America and billionaires share the streets with homeless people hooked on the most horrendous drugs. 

Anyone here studied the fall of Rome? We seem to be taking that global.

Been there and can confirm, Tenderloin which is like Skid Row a few minutes walk away from the HQ's of various exciting startups. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Been there and can confirm, Tenderloin which is like Skid Row a few minutes walk away from the HQ's of various exciting startups. 

It’s sickening, and they don’t want to do anything about it, I honestly believe one of the effects of this will be a big exodus away from areas of high density populations. Not only because home working will become far more prevalent but people are sick of that way of living. It’s fine for if you want a Costa every 300 yards but living in that way is not natural. It’s a polluted, horrendous way to live and there are casualties from that.  

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9 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

It’s sickening, and they don’t want to do anything about it, I honestly believe one of the effects of this will be a big exodus away from areas of high density populations. Not only because home working will become far more prevalent but people are sick of that way of living. It’s fine for if you want a Costa every 300 yards but living in that way is not natural. It’s a polluted, horrendous way to live and there are casualties from that.  

I just think its ridiculous how there are entire companies with thousands of employees based in Silicon Valley paying the worlds highest rents, and you've got people on six figure salaries living in box rooms in house shares, when you could just have your top brass and important networkers in Silicon Valley and then have your code monkeys living and working almost rent free in Detroit or Reno or somewhere.

Especially when you consider that a lot of these big start ups are burning through investor money for 5, 10 years before they break a profit. If they ever break a profit. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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9 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I just think its ridiculous how there are entire companies with thousands of employees based in Silicon Valley paying the worlds highest rents, and you've got people on six figure salaries living in box rooms in house shares, when you could just have your top brass and important networkers in Silicon Valley and then have your code monkeys living and working almost rent free in Detroit or Reno or somewhere.

Especially when you consider that a lot of these big start ups are burning through investor money for 5, 10 years before they break a profit. If they ever break a profit. 

That area of America is the ultimate manifestation of the corrupted American society. These are the most anti-gun people in the country that once the toilet paper ran out were queued out the door at gun shops. Buy an electric car by organise mass pollution elsewhere or create a platform that ruins a generations mental health and if you get too many homeless people, put them on a bus and pay Arizona to take them in. Our society needs to heal and become much simpler. Although I suspect we are headed for an era of technological terror. 

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Some of this was changing anyway. My eldest works for one of the big US techs, and he was already working 3 days from home. He thinks that will change to 4 when all this passes - a weekly check in with team colleagues and managers to update stuff you can't do on video will still be necessary, but you don't need to live next to the office to do that.

But rich and poor have always existed side by side. When I first moved to London in the late 1970s I couldn't believe how close Brixton/Balham was to Dulwich; Kilburn next to Maida Vale; all separated by maybe 50 yards, yet there was no crossover. Still isn't much - the poorer areas are not quite as poor as they were, the richer areas are even richer.

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15 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Some of this was changing anyway. My eldest works for one of the big US techs, and he was already working 3 days from home. He thinks that will change to 4 when all this passes - a weekly check in with team colleagues and managers to update stuff you can't do on video will still be necessary, but you don't need to live next to the office to do that.

But rich and poor have always existed side by side. When I first moved to London in the late 1970s I couldn't believe how close Brixton/Balham was to Dulwich; Kilburn next to Maida Vale; all separated by maybe 50 yards, yet there was no crossover. Still isn't much - the poorer areas are not quite as poor as they were, the richer areas are even richer.

London is horrendous and it’s classed as taboo to even bring it up I’ve found. The place is totally soulless. An ancient city corrupted by foreign money. 

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2 hours ago, Aggy said:

While I would have agreed had you said the current ‘go anywhere you want in a day’ has meant things move faster, I’m not sure that is what makes a pandemic inevitable. Pandemics have happened throughout history. Bubonic plague spread largely as a result of rats with fleas travelling on ships in the middle of the fourteenth century - that’s not because people could travel anywhere in a day.

What’s more likely to make another pandemic inevitable are things such as people eating meat (in particular cheap ‘unusual’ meat), antibacterial resistance growing etc.

Yes, but the world is a different place now, The Bubonic plague did such damage because they did not know how to treat it.

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1 hour ago, T said:

Another fail as usual. You act like it was a secret. How did they know? Are they Chinese doctors? They knew because it was widely reported in the news. Why because the WHO who they are criticisng was raising their concerns loud and clear. And clearly you have not read hte article because your comment is consistent with what is reported that the hard right have their views becasue they are scared of the outside world. Also to be fair if you have a pre-existing condition and are retired and have more time to follow this stuff you are going to be more concerned. But it is comical how your comments support the findings in the report. 

Perhaps you didn't understand the article that you posted because it directly conflicted with your argument. You didn't actually raise the question of how did the posters on here become aware and concerned enough to initial raise the issue of a spreading epidemic. You instead posted an article that suggested that the posters that you identified in a certain way, would not be raising the concerns that they did, and if we were to believe that article that those posters would most likely to be in disagreement with government actions such as lockdown. Whereas if you take the trouble to read the initial thread, instead of imagining what you think they might have said, you will find very explicit calls for measures to be taken the counter the virus. 

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1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I just think its ridiculous how there are entire companies with thousands of employees based in Silicon Valley paying the worlds highest rents, and you've got people on six figure salaries living in box rooms in house shares, when you could just have your top brass and important networkers in Silicon Valley and then have your code monkeys living and working almost rent free in Detroit or Reno or somewhere.

Especially when you consider that a lot of these big start ups are burning through investor money for 5, 10 years before they break a profit. If they ever break a profit. 

This is very true TVB. There are a fair few numbers of digital nomads working out in the Far East. What better than spending the day close to the beach under a blue sky while logged into to a server in the City of London? I think a lot of companies/governments are scared to break up this very rigid employee/employer hierarchical relationship even though the nature of much work is changing so that a much flatter structure is a better model. I think that they fear the loss of control over workers if they move to a more matrix-like structure but perhaps this covid pandemic will result in a big push towards such a situation.

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2 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

The unfairness in our society and addiction to “stuff” is a huge issue. This isn’t a political issue, this is a societal issue.

 

If you want a stark example of it go to San Francisco or Silicon Valley in California. The most liberal place in America and billionaires share the streets with homeless people hooked on the most horrendous drugs. 

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16 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

This is very true TVB. There are a fair few numbers of digital nomads working out in the Far East. What better than spending the day close to the beach under a blue sky while logged into to a server in the City of London? I think a lot of companies/governments are scared to break up this very rigid employee/employer hierarchical relationship even though the nature of much work is changing so that a much flatter structure is a better model. I think that they fear the loss of control over workers if they move to a more matrix-like structure but perhaps this covid pandemic will result in a big push towards such a situation.

As confused as your thought processes. . You obviously haven't read or understood the article. People are xenophobic becasue they are fearful hence phobic. 

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Ah the bash the west coast liberals argument. Inequality in America has been a characteristic since its founding. It still is, and can be found in every state. So you are not wrong to say it exists but the answer does not lie in pointing fingers at the “coastal elites” - go ask the descendants of slaves in the American South about social or financial equality. 

Want to propose a policy to fix this? Because unless you do it is not going to go away.....

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8 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Ah the bash the west coast liberals argument. Inequality in America has been a characteristic since its founding. It still is, and can be found in every state. So you are not wrong to say it exists but the answer does not lie in pointing fingers at the “coastal elites” - go ask the descendants of slaves in the American South about social or financial equality. 

Want to propose a policy to fix this? Because unless you do it is not going to go away.....

Why the extreme reaction to this? It’s just an extreme example of social inequality. I could say the same thing as London with Russian and Far East billionaires buying property en-masse and inflating house prices while Londoners are pressured out of their city or gentrification in Brooklyn or any number of examples. I just happen to believe you won’t find a more stark example of this social gap than movie stars and tech billionaires living alongside homeless people in the grips of an opioid epidemic that isn’t being addressed at all by the government there.

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1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

Yes, but the world is a different place now, The Bubonic plague did such damage because they did not know how to treat it.

We don’t know how to treat coronavirus.

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3 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I think you'll find that poverty still very much exists, last month I donated a microwave to somebody who has no means of heating food and they sleep on a mattress on the floor.

That doesn't change the fact that I think that disposable fashion has gone too far, people who aren't in abject poverty seem not to care about planned obsolescence either. They don't care that their Apple phone will seize to function in a few years, because they sign up to getting upgrades every 2 years. 

We consume too much unnecessarily and you haven't put up an argument against that. 

I didn’t realise I was supposed to be putting up an argument against it.
 

My only point was that not everybody can just replace cheap disposable fashion with more expensive items, as you suggested should happen. Those same cheap disposable things have increased the quality of life for a lot of people, who would previously have had to make do without, so I wouldn’t be so quick to discard them.

 

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Government scientist brushes past the fact that the number of new cases has risen, referring to the increase in testing as the reason. But surely that means there are more people today than yesterday who have it to our knowledge and have the chance of spreading it or increasing the R0.

How can they consider any easing of the lockdown? Clearly, if we have been in isolation for 6 weeks, the virus is still spreading. I wonder how many cases have occurred from visits to the supermarket?

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5 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Government scientist brushes past the fact that the number of new cases has risen, referring to the increase in testing as the reason. But surely that means there are more people today than yesterday who have it to our knowledge and have the chance of spreading it or increasing the R0.

How can they consider any easing of the lockdown? Clearly, if we have been in isolation for 6 weeks, the virus is still spreading. I wonder how many cases have occurred from visits to the supermarket?

We have been in lockdown for 6 weeks

but we haven’t been in lockdown for 6 weeks

I honestly believe we are psychologically, as a country, unable to do a “lockdown” in the way a lot of other countrys have.

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