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4 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

is that a 2 week quarantine period before every game (i.e. teams will only play every 2 weeks at the end of which they will have to test clear?).

Interesting if so given that the premier league is planning to play 9 matches in 7 weeks.

I think it is a few more than that 😀

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22 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I posted on this yesterday after the France story broke but it seemed to get lost amongst the excess deaths debate.

I had a horrible mystery virus in mid December. Absolutely knackered, fever for a couple of days, zero energy and a really dry cough that lasted on and off for about 4 weeks that made me dizzy and nearly pass out at times it was so bad. Went to the doctors and they just said seems like a virus, there have been a couple of nasty mystery viruses going about. Even after 2 or 3 weeks I still had days where I woke up and was exhausted all day. It was not like any normal chest infection or flu i've had. My dad caught it off me and was similarly ill himself for about 3 weeks. Its all anecdotal but there were a lot of people hit by something similar around the same time.

Its probably wishful thinking in my part that I actually have had it already but the news from France does make you wonder if there was a first and perhaps slightly less virulent wave of Covid 19 in this country at the end of last year and its somehow mutated into something a bit nastier ahead of a second wave. I will be very interested to take an antibody test when they are available/reliable.

Probably a regular disease but it certainly was weird. Makes you wonder how long China covered it up.

Edited by The Real Buh

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3 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

9 rounds of matches

aha 🤩

I think it can be done with one game w/e and one midweek

and I would imagine that much of it has already been laid out

with the recognition that any confirmation at this stage might encourage folk to think that if football is going ahead then why stay in

not all, but enough to cause 'problems'

as I have said, it will be a different country in 6 weeks time

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1 hour ago, Ian said:

That said, this wasn't really the point I was making. As you seem to have researched this in much more depth than me, I would be very interested if you think it's surprising the WHO/Chinese government found no evidence of human-to-human transmission on January 14th, and whether this had any sort of impact on global preparations at an absolutely crucial time?

I completely agree that the Chinese covered up the seriousness of coronavirus, kept it hush for quite a while, and have stitched the rest of the world up as a result. We'd at very least have had a month or so extra to prepare for its arrival. 

How much the WHO was complicit in this I don't know, I mean would it surprise you at all if they were victims of being lied to as well and perhaps just a bit naive to trust Chinese data? 

The WHO didn't actually visit Wuhan until 22nd January, at which point they made a statement which confirmed human-to-human transmission was happening.

Slow to react? Overly trusting of Chinese data? Incompetence and ineffective? I'm sure all those accusations could be leveled at the WHO. But I find the idea that they "covered up" for China, or misled the world to be more of a stretch which isn't supported by evidence and I'd rather not do Donald Trump's bidding for him. That seems to be the narrative that Trump wants everybody to adopt, as part of his ongoing trade war with China. Let's hope that doesn't become the 21st century Cold War (like Covoid-19 is the 21st century Spanish Flu).

Trump has said that there is credible evidence that human-to-human transmission was happening in December, but he's saying that with hindsight and he doesn't say that there is credible evidence that the WHO knew about it. 

They are guilty of being crap at their job and need a shake up, but where is the evidence that they covered anything up? The Chinese are the guilty party here. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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12 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

is that a 2 week quarantine period before every game (i.e. teams will only play every 2 weeks at the end of which they will have to test clear?).

Interesting if so given that the premier league is planning to play 9 matches in 7 weeks.

I don’t know to be honest but I think only before the first game and then they will be tested twice a week and stay in their “bubble”.of players staff and presumably family. Ie no point getting tested and then going outside that group and getting infected. 

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5 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I completely agree that the Chinese covered up the seriousness of coronavirus, kept it hush for quite a while, and have stitched the rest of the world up as a result. We'd at very least have had a month or so extra to prepare for its arrival. 

How much the WHO was complicit in this I don't know, I mean would it surprise you at all if they were victims of being lied to as well and perhaps just a bit naive to trust Chinese data? 

The WHO didn't actually visit Wuhan until 22nd January, at which point they made a statement which confirmed human-to-human transmission was happening.

Slow to react? Overly trusting of Chinese data? Incompetence and ineffective? I'm sure all those accusations could be leveled at the WHO. But I find the idea that they "covered up" for China, or misled the world to be more of a stretch which isn't supported by evidence and I'd rather not do Donald Trump's bidding for him. That seems to be the narrative that Trump wants everybody to adopt, as part of his ongoing trade war with China. Let's hope that doesn't become the 21st century Cold War (like Covoid-19 is the 21st century Spanish Flu).

Trump has said that there is credible evidence that human-to-human transmission was happening in December, but he's saying that with hindsight and he doesn't say that there is credible evidence that the WHO knew about it. 

They are guilty of being crap at their job and need a shake up, but where is the evidence that they covered anything up? The Chinese are the guilty party here. 

^^^

This 100%

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8 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I completely agree that the Chinese covered up the seriousness of coronavirus, kept it hush for quite a while, and have stitched the rest of the world up as a result. We'd at very least have had a month or so extra to prepare for its arrival. 

How much the WHO was complicit in this I don't know, I mean would it surprise you at all if they were victims of being lied to as well and perhaps just a bit naive to trust Chinese data? 

The WHO didn't actually visit Wuhan until 22nd January, at which point they made a statement which confirmed human-to-human transmission was happening.

Slow to react? Overly trusting of Chinese data? Incompetence and ineffective? I'm sure all those accusations could be leveled at the WHO. But I find the idea that they "covered up" for China, or misled the world to be more of a stretch which isn't supported by evidence and I'd rather not do Donald Trump's bidding for him. That seems to be the narrative that Trump wants everybody to adopt, as part of his ongoing trade war with China. Let's hope that doesn't become the 21st century Cold War (like Covoid-19 is the 21st century Spanish Flu).

Trump has said that there is credible evidence that human-to-human transmission was happening in December, but he's saying that with hindsight and he doesn't say that there is credible evidence that the WHO knew about it. 

They are guilty of being crap at their job and need a shake up, but where is the evidence that they covered anything up? The Chinese are the guilty party here. 

Yep, and that was my point really. I was responding to suggestions that European Gov'ts ignored clear facts coming out of China - I didn't think this was reasonable and used above as an example of this.

As you say, whether the WHO were complicit or not is pretty irrelevant, but I believe it was fairly clear that the Chinese were not open and honest as they should have been, it has also been documented that Western journalists were banned and so on. Probably shouldn't be given the forum, but I am genuinely surprised to see people try and justify this.

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2 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

^^^

This 100%

really ?

"I completely agree that the Chinese covered up the seriousness of coronavirus, kept it hush for quite a while, and have stitched the rest of the world up as a result. We'd at very least have had a month or so extra to prepare for its arrival. 

How much the WHO was complicit in this I don't know, I mean would it surprise you at all if they were victims of being lied to as well and perhaps just a bit naive to trust Chinese data? "

There is no evidence for the first sentence - and the suggestion that there was complicity from WHO is absurd and serves only to demonstrate that this is little more than the usual.............' post up some correct evidence so as to mask the misrepresentations (lies).'

And I would suggest the latter part owes much to the link to WHO that I posted earlier.

All about as obvious as an elephant trying to hide in a fridge

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1 minute ago, Bill said:

really ?

"I completely agree that the Chinese covered up the seriousness of coronavirus, kept it hush for quite a while, and have stitched the rest of the world up as a result. We'd at very least have had a month or so extra to prepare for its arrival. 

How much the WHO was complicit in this I don't know, I mean would it surprise you at all if they were victims of being lied to as well and perhaps just a bit naive to trust Chinese data? "

There is no evidence for the first sentence - and the suggestion that there was complicity from WHO is absurd and serves only to demonstrate that this is little more than the usual.............' post up some correct evidence so as to mask the misrepresentations (lies).'

And I would suggest the latter part owes much to the link to WHO that I posted earlier.

All about as obvious as an elephant trying to hide in a fridge

Oh right, so Chinese social media personalities and citizen journalists speaking out about the virus 'going missing' and doctors being arrested and interrogated by state police for trying to warn the world about a new virus isn't evidence of an attempted cover up then Bill? Well I can't help with your blindness. 

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1 minute ago, Ian said:

Yep, and that was my point really. I was responding to suggestions that European Gov'ts ignored clear facts coming out of China - I didn't think this was reasonable and used above as an example of this.

As you say, whether the WHO were complicit or not is pretty irrelevant, but I believe it was fairly clear that the Chinese were not open and honest as they should have been, it has also been documented that Western journalists were banned and so on. Probably shouldn't be given the forum, but I am genuinely surprised to see people try and justify this.

however, I am not surprised to see you try your usual - make up something so as to knock it down

no one is trying to defend China's actions

they are merely pointing out where you lied - not the same thing, at all

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Latest from the Robert Koch Institute

 

The current estimate is R= 0.71

At the global and the national level,the situation is very dynamic and must be taken seriously.Severe and fatal courses occur in some cases.The number of newly transmitted cases, hospitalisations and fatalities in Germany is decreasing.The RKI currently assesses the risk to the health of the German population overall as high and as very high for risk groups.The probability of serious disease progression increases with increasing age and underlying illnesses.The risk of disease varies from region to region. The burden on the health care system depends on the geographical and age distribution of cases,health care capacity and initiation of containment measures (isolation,quarantine,physical distancing etc.),and may be very high in some geographical regions.This assessment may change on short notice as a result of new findings.

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4 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Oh right, so Chinese social media personalities and citizen journalists speaking out about the virus 'going missing' and doctors being arrested and interrogated by state police for trying to warn the world about a new virus isn't evidence of an attempted cover up then Bill? Well I can't help with your blindness. 

Imagine being so defeated a human being that you choose to prop up a Chinese government that is, as I type this, cyber attacking the NHS to deliberately weaken it. These totalitarian authorities go after the weak minded ones first to create their useful idiots. Everyone should keep an eye on this, it will be interesting to see who bows down to their Chinese masters.

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too sunny to be indoors, a few errands to run so it's off on la bee see clette

au trevoir, mes enfants

policepennyfarthing.jpeg

hopefully the rozzers won't see through my disguise 🤪

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Just now, Bill said:

too sunny to be indoors, a few errands to run so it's off on la bee see clette

au trevoir, mes enfants

policepennyfarthing.jpeg

hopefully the rozzers won't see through my disguise 🤪

Has the Chinese Government confirmed you are allowed to do that? 

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/12/uk-spy-agencies-urge-china-rethink-once-covid-19-crisis-is-over

As we know, the guardian is the only valid source if news in the world. It is the bastion of truth and honesty and doesn’t ever publish false or misleading information, so in an effort to appeal to those being influenced into supporting the Chinese government. Our intelligence agencies are seriously concerned about China and its future activities. We will have to be very careful, China is as despotic as any other horrendous totalitarian state in the world but has been given a free pass because of its cheap labour and central role in globalism. Please, I’m not saying believe our government every step of the way but definitely don’t believe China. British politicians may be inept or incapable but China is genuinely nefarious.

3446A442-C23D-4541-BBA6-E469152E0F23.jpeg

Edited by The Real Buh

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52 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Probably a regular disease but it certainly was weird. Makes you wonder how long China covered it up.

There was another thread on this subject and I posted on that about a virulent bug that hit a lot of people at work in late December, my cough lasted until late February, it was a really draining bug, makes you wonder.

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I remain amused at all the deflection of blame going on here and in the US.

Got to find a scapegoat for what was an inevitable pandemic sooner or later - top of the risk register - and only a question of when not if or how. 

Whatever the shortcomings and successes elsewhere the words ****-up and brewery come to mind on on our own and Trump's response to date.

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Just now, Yellow Fever said:

I remain amused at all the deflection of blame going on here and in the US.

Got to find a scapegoat for what was an inevitable pandemic sooner or later - top of the risk register - and only a question of when not if or how. 

Whatever the shortcomings and successes elsewhere the words ****-up and brewery come to mind on on our own and Trump's response to date.

We’ve discussed response ad-nauseum. We get it... “ToRIes bAD”...

I think it’s perfectly reasonable to discuss root cause of this. I believe we are very much to blame. We have allowed uninterrupted globalism and dependence on China, in the face of its horrendous practices. If we want to survive as a species we need to solve this China problem. It’s polluting the world in so many ways.

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4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

Got to find a scapegoat for what was an inevitable pandemic sooner or later - top of the risk register - and only a question of when not if or how. 

 

Just a shame the WHO couldn't  bring themselves to call it that when the entire world and its brother could see it was a pandemic.

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10 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Just a shame the WHO couldn't  bring themselves to call it that when the entire world and its brother could see it was a pandemic.

The entire world?? 

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7 minutes ago, Herman said:

The entire world?? 

Well, all except you if you want to be pedantic😀

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Remember that care staff and the NHS are the "heart" of this country?

A row has broken out between unions and a Cornwall Council-owned company over a decision to defer pay talks until September which has been branded "insulting".

Three trade unions issued a statement criticising Corserv for delaying pay talks for almost 2,500 staff, including care workers employed on the frontline of the coronavirus crisis.

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The WHO didn’t call it a pandemic because it wasn’t as it  didn’t meet the definition of a pandemic at the time. When it did meet the definition they called it a pandemic. They gave lots of direct clear warning on Covi9 19 long before calling it a pandemic. So all you are actually saying is that you are attacking the WHO on the basis that you don’t understand the word pandemic. Yes they were saying there was a threat of a pandemic and countries should prepare but it just wasn’t technically a pandemic. So just wrong like you saying Germany is following the trend of other countries and that football will not resume and that there is a price worth paying for nationalism all of which is just a view of the world you want rather than reality. 

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Anybody know exactly when Boris is going to make his big announcement. Some media have said Thursday. Some have said Sunday. I assume SKS will refer to it today.

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1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Just a shame the WHO couldn't  bring themselves to call it that when the entire world and its brother could see it was a pandemic.

They gave it the highest level of classification possible on 31st January, when they declared it a Public Health Emergency of International Concern (PHEIC). That's as high as the levels go. There is no classification called 'pandemic', that's just a word. 

A PHEIC is defined as:

"an extraordinary event which is determined to constitute a public health risk to other States through the international spread of disease and to potentially require a coordinated international response"

Its the exact same classification given to swine flu in 2009 and Ebola in 2014. Its not their fault the UK did not enter lockdown until 23rd March. 

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I'm really only concerned at this stage with the UK response, and it's interesting that the PR machine is now ramping up the "admission of slight guilt" statements to ready us all for forgiveness. Two scientists and a two government ministers, including Hancock, so far admitting that we probably should have tested more in the early stages but didn't have the capacity.

Err, yes we did have the capacity but PHE insisted on controlling the entire process - but don't let the truth get in the way of a good excuse as to why they took such a stupid decision. Everyone getting ready to blame May and Hunt for the catastrophic state of the NHS when this hit. Some things never change - blame your predecessor to save your skin. 

At some point they will have to admit that the "science" they were following all this time wasn't really science at all, but probably not for another 50 years when the files are released.

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The big problem being ignored is that the world under the current go anywhere you want in a day has created a dangerous state, another pandemic will be inevitable.

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11 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

The big problem being ignored is that the world under the current go anywhere you want in a day has created a dangerous state, another pandemic will be inevitable.

Yes I think they need to rewind globalism, travel less, manufacture more locally, as long this is done in a positive light e.g. being more environmentally conscious (rather than nationalism and outright protectionism) and realising that we need to stop buying endless useless poorly made junk, pay a bit more for better quality and identify that we've gone too far with the endless pursuit of cheap disposable 'stuff' from Primark, Poundland and Sports Direct made by people on 70 pence an hour. It should be replaced by buying higher quality goods and then looking after them properly. like they did in the old days.

But we'll need to invest a fortune in tarting up Blackpool and Great Yarmouth up if you expect the Jones'es to go there instead of Costa Blanca. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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14 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

realising that we need to stop buying endless useless poorly made junk, pay a bit more for better quality and identify that we've gone too far with the endless pursuit of cheap disposable 'stuff' from Primark, Poundland and Sports Direct made by people on 70 pence an hour. It should be replaced by buying higher quality goods and then looking after them properly. like they did in the old days.

Couldnt agree more TvB, a good place for NCFC to start would be those horrendous nylon nightmares called replica shirts. 

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