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5 hours ago, Surfer said:

Ah, well. I would mention that to your local Tory MP. It's been right wing political parties that have encouraged offshoring of jobs for decades with their tax avoidance policies. The problem is not "soft" it's "greed" ....

So you must be delighted that your friend Donald Trump has policies to bring US jobs back onshore?

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Sorry VW but it like banging head against a brick wall !  This is really important because all the time people deny they will not learn the lessons so I will try again and try to make it simpler. 
 

 You clearly haven’t read it otherwise You would not argue. and that is partly understandable to some extent if you are not following German news and don’t speak German but it is also on the BBC world and BBC Europe sites. There is not one report.

we know that it started in China. We know that Germany has a lot more interaction than UK with China because of German manufacturing  export economy basis  so therefore it has more exposure. We know some of the earliest outbreaks in Europe   were in Germany traced back to China.  

 

we know that ski resorts was the major reported cause of spread  of the disease across Europe based on tracing. We know that Germans go skiing to Austria and Italy. a lot more than UK. not least because if you care to look at a map they are next door.  Therdore we know that Germany had greater exposure to the major source of spread and this is backed up by tracing  

Therefore we know Germany had a lot more exposure to the source and to the major cause of spread. It is not opinion. These are all facts backed up by contact tracing as are the earlier reported outbreaks in Germany.
 

You don’t have any evidence to refute these facts.im afraid so time to move on from deflect and denial. We know the UK has performed poorly and there is no escaping it and therefore the UK needs to learn rather than deflect and deny. Clapping is simply not good enough. The UK needs to accept and learn for the sake of those dying and the front line workers. 

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5 minutes ago, Herman said:

I understand where you are coming from but he was spreading dangerous misinformation this time rather than simple conspiracies. And a lot more were listening and believing his nonsense. His words could have lead to more deaths and he needed to shut up.

Unfortunately the fact he has been shut up will lead to people thinking that he was shut up for telling the truth.

he has not been 'shut up' as he is free to peddle his lies on his own website, and by other means

but there is legal accountability to those publishing such dangerous stuff

and so those responsible for publishing.... youtube, facebook etc have taken steps to avoid that liability

also it doesn't do their corporate image any good to have it associated with such offensive stuff - hence 'my little fascist' and the other ragbag of rightwing nut jobs being removed

just as you are free to walk about the UK carrying a **** flag - but you are not being 'erased' if MCdonalds, pubs and others refuse you entry with that flag

it's their choice

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8 minutes ago, Herman said:

I understand where you are coming from but he was spreading dangerous misinformation this time rather than simple conspiracies. And a lot more were listening and believing his nonsense. His words could have lead to more deaths and he needed to shut up.

Unfortunately the fact he has been shut up will lead to people thinking that he was shut up for telling the truth.

Can't say I've paid attention, he's always been a fruitcake, but perhaps the world needs to think of a different way to deal with eccentrics and oddballs which isn't basically suppressing them entirely. Nick Griffin going on Question Time to show the world what a nutter he is was actually damaging to the BNP, for example.

Perhaps a massive flashing light saying "this person is know to spread disinformation" and an algorithm which doesn't give them too much exposure. 

Its the equivalent of banning somebody from the pub for talking rubbish instead of just ripping the p*ss out of them. 

And David Icke has been ridiculed for years but a hell of a lot of the stuff that he reported about peados was spot on, he was writing about Jimmy Saville for years and the mainstream media never touched that issue. 

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16 minutes ago, Bill said:

stop making up stuff

it is not scary, just businesses ensuring that they are not held accountable for publishing lies...dangerous lies at that

try checking the rules that the Pinkun has in that regard

what is scary is that there are people like you out there all to willing to peddle such lies and misrepresentation

I'm very confused Bill, what have I made up? 

I have to say, I've found some of your posts a bit strange recently, are you coping ok with lockdown? 

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56 minutes ago, Bill said:

odd how Barbie crank knows so much about my posts when he has supposedly blocked me 🤣

or that he won't say who he was before...

so did he suddenly stumble across this forum, then read up on previous postings by others to know their stance on previous matters

or maybe he is just another coincidence one who just happens to use the same phraseology as hand crank, and the same misrepresentation of other's posts

however some might wonder if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....

This comment should be used to section you under the mental health act. I mean it.

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8 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

So you must be delighted that your friend Donald Trump has policies to bring US jobs back onshore?

Another lie.

He has an audience stupid enough to believe him when he claims that, as

" Moreover, the Reshoring Initiative data show fewer than 30,000 jobs that companies say they will relocate to the United States because of Mr. Trump’s tariffs on imported steel, aluminum, solar panels, washing machines and a variety of Chinese goods. Researchers at A. T. Kearney said last month that Mr. Trump’s trade policies, including tariffs, had pushed factory activity not to the United States but to low-cost Asian countries other than China, like Vietnam.

 

ps any chance you can post something that IS NOT a lie ?

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4 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I'm very confused Bill, what have I made up?

it would be far easier to state what you haven't made

but then, you rightys aren't too good at sticking to the truth.....whatever name you post under :classic_rolleyes:

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Just now, Bill said:

it would be far easier to state what you haven't made

but then, you rightys aren't too good at sticking to the truth.....whatever name you post under :classic_rolleyes:

So basically you have paranoia because you seem to think that 6 or 7 posters are all the same person.

Bit worried about you to be honest old fella, you got relatives etc keeping in touch during lockdown? 

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4 hours ago, Surfer said:

As a sovereign nation, with a government, parliament and budget, we could pass a Emergency Powers Act at any time and force manufacturers to do just that - on a fixed cost plus basis. However we haven’t as the government thinks it can manage as is. 
 

Over in the US the President has not used it either - apart from forcing meat processing plants to continue operations despite massive infection rates for their workers - but that is part of another broader story of deregulation and offshoring and profits only for the bosses. 

I'm surprised, though I really shouldn't be, to find that lefties always look to forcing people and businesses to do things. Following the methods of Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot never worked out well in the past and it won't go so well today either. One of the winners of this pandemic has been our supermarket businesses who have handled our food distribution brilliantly since the early days of panic buying of a fearful population. If you have a major problem, the free market will solve it for you. Short of PPE? get private business onto it. Need a new hospital in a hurry, get private contractors in. You don't have to pass any law to coerce people, just put the business out to tender and the private sector will act of their own free will.

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Posted (edited)

A free market working within common rules sounds like a great idea. That is why we don’t elect far right or far left governments to screw that up and either implement the tyranny of union bosses like Scargill or his opposite the crony capitalists like Sugar, Branson or Dyson. 

Insider trading, tax avoidance, short selling, non-competitive bids, all tools to transfer wealth form me and you into their pockets. 

So yes, totally up for a free market RTB. Let’s rejoin the EU, as Germany especially have implemented that economic set of rules pretty well.

Edited by Surfer

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blimey, old hand crank is getting desperate to get a bite

any update on the Germans bombing Britain after 1943 ?

or perhaps you were getting confused with the 24 hour clock :classic_laugh:

 

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Just now, Surfer said:

A free market working within common rules sounds like a great idea. That is why we don’t elect far right or far left governments to screw that up and either implement the tyranny of union bosses like Scargill or the opposite of capitalists like Sugar, Branson or Dyson. 

do enlighten us on that

as we have to suppose that unions are like those regimes and don't have elections

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12 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Can't say I've paid attention, he's always been a fruitcake, but perhaps the world needs to think of a different way to deal with eccentrics and oddballs which isn't basically suppressing them entirely. Nick Griffin going on Question Time to show the world what a nutter he is was actually damaging to the BNP, for example.

Perhaps a massive flashing light saying "this person is know to spread disinformation" and an algorithm which doesn't give them too much exposure. 

Its the equivalent of banning somebody from the pub for talking rubbish instead of just ripping the p*ss out of them. 

And David Icke has been ridiculed for years but a hell of a lot of the stuff that he reported about peados was spot on, he was writing about Jimmy Saville for years and the mainstream media never touched that issue. 

Johnny Rotten called out Savile back in the 70´s...but he didn´t predict New Zealand would be obliterated in 1997

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7 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

So basically you have paranoia because you seem to think that 6 or 7 posters are all the same person.

Bit worried about you to be honest old fella, you got relatives etc keeping in touch during lockdown? 

err no, that is just you lying again to knock that down rather than what I have said

any chance of a post without you lying ?

 

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3 hours ago, kick it off said:

BSc and postgrad (Merit). Next...

So how did you end up as a lowly supply teacher in Nottingham?

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Bill said:

do enlighten us on that

as we have to suppose that unions are like those regimes and don't have elections

I’m winding RTB up Bill, but to be fair old Arthur didn’t have a very positive reputation for many years as the miners caused winter blackout by picketing coal fired power plants. So you know what I mean, they were bloody minded to say the least and gave Maggi Thatcher her excuse to attack the Unions in general. Hand in hand with Ronnie Reagan doing the same in the US.

Edited by Surfer

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1 minute ago, Rock The Boat said:

So how did you end up as a lowly supply teacher in Nottingham?

You need a postgrad certificate to be a teacher, so I'm assuming that was very much intentional.  

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5 minutes ago, Bill said:

err no, that is just you lying again to knock that down rather than what I have said

any chance of a post without you lying ?

What have I lied about Bill? 

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3 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Germany did have their first confirmed human-to-human transmission a month before us. 

They have of course blown us out of the water when it comes to testing, but its not really as simple as saying that our lockdown started 10 days after theirs (or whatever it was) because the virus had taken hold earlier there. 

On 5th March the UK had 115 confirmed cases in total and Germany had announced 109 new cases in 24 hours on that same day. Just as an example.

Yes that may be partially due to more testing, but the point still stands that the point of lockdown is to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed by everybody catching it at the same time, or 'flatten the curve', so you'd try and avoid a crazy peak in cases. 

You would have expected Germany's lockdown to start earlier than ours.

We also have the benefit of watching what happens now that Germany is beginning to lift lockdown. Their data can be trusted and we can ascertain whether it would be a good idea to follow suit or not, so there are some benefits to not mirroring their lockdown to the day.

Why do you think the German data can be trusted? Have their results been independently audited? When you think about the scandals surrounding their car industries, I would definitely not take their word for granted.

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16 minutes ago, T said:

Sorry VW but it like banging head against a brick wall !  This is really important because all the time people deny they will not learn the lessons so I will try again and try to make it simpler. 
 

 You clearly haven’t read it otherwise You would not argue. and that is partly understandable to some extent if you are not following German news and don’t speak German but it is also on the BBC world and BBC Europe sites. There is not one report.

we know that it started in China. We know that Germany has a lot more interaction than UK with China because of German manufacturing  export economy basis  so therefore it has more exposure. We know some of the earliest outbreaks in Europe   were in Germany traced back to China.  

 

we know that ski resorts was the major reported cause of spread  of the disease across Europe based on tracing. We know that Germans go skiing to Austria and Italy. a lot more than UK. not least because if you care to look at a map they are next door.  Therdore we know that Germany had greater exposure to the major source of spread and this is backed up by tracing  

Therefore we know Germany had a lot more exposure to the source and to the major cause of spread. It is not opinion. These are all facts backed up by contact tracing as are the earlier reported outbreaks in Germany.
 

You don’t have any evidence to refute these facts.im afraid so time to move on from deflect and denial. We know the UK has performed poorly and there is no escaping it and therefore the UK needs to learn rather than deflect and deny. Clapping is simply not good enough. The UK needs to accept and learn for the sake of those dying and the front line workers. 

Not denying anything, you may well be right, all I asked is if you have evidence or is this opinion.

There are a huge number of variables that effect  the way an epidemic progresses, as you will know I hope, to come to an evidence based conclusion they all have to be properly tested and analysed. That’s not been done, it will be one day no doubt, but at the moment you are expressing an opinion, based on some but not all of the evidence. New evidence is emerging all the time, we may find the virus was actively spreading through populations much earlier than first thought, indications from France today are suggesting this, much much more will be discovered over time, maybe things that will contradict some of our current understanding, it’s a novel virus.

 

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3 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

So how did you end up as a lowly supply teacher in Nottingham?

Supply? Never done supply as a qualified teacher - did a bit before I did my PGCE to make sure I was choosing the right path.

Currently in an outstanding school elsewhere in the midlands (moved last summer) and just got a promoted post (whole school responsibility - middle leadership). Last year was in an outstanding school in Nottinghamshire.

Not sure where the supply bit came from?

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2 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Why do you think the German data can be trusted? Have their results been independently audited? When you think about the scandals surrounding their car industries, I would definitely not take their word for granted.

Since when has a multi national company been any determinant on government healthcare

is BP's oil spillage any means to gauge the NHS ?

 

the guff you  rightys post up becomes more absurd by the hour 😟

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12 minutes ago, kick it off said:

Supply? Never done supply as a qualified teacher - did a bit before I did my PGCE to make sure I was choosing the right path.

Currently in an outstanding school elsewhere in the midlands (moved last summer) and just got a promoted post (whole school responsibility - middle leadership). Last year was in an outstanding school in Nottinghamshire.

Not sure where the supply bit came from?

Good luck KIO. Teaching is a vocation. I know I couldn't do it.

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44 minutes ago, Bill said:

he has not been 'shut up' as he is free to peddle his lies on his own website, and by other means

but there is legal accountability to those publishing such dangerous stuff

and so those responsible for publishing.... youtube, facebook etc have taken steps to avoid that liability

also it doesn't do their corporate image any good to have it associated with such offensive stuff - hence 'my little fascist' and the other ragbag of rightwing nut jobs being removed

just as you are free to walk about the UK carrying a **** flag - but you are not being 'erased' if MCdonalds, pubs and others refuse you entry with that flag

it's their choice

Are you saying that youtube, facebook, etc. are publishers?

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42 minutes ago, Bill said:

Another lie.

He has an audience stupid enough to believe him when he claims that, as

" Moreover, the Reshoring Initiative data show fewer than 30,000 jobs that companies say they will relocate to the United States because of Mr. Trump’s tariffs on imported steel, aluminum, solar panels, washing machines and a variety of Chinese goods. Researchers at A. T. Kearney said last month that Mr. Trump’s trade policies, including tariffs, had pushed factory activity not to the United States but to low-cost Asian countries other than China, like Vietnam.

 

ps any chance you can post something that IS NOT a lie ?

What is this reshoring initiative?

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19 minutes ago, Bill said:

Since when has a multi national company been any determinant on government healthcare

is BP's oil spillage any means to gauge the NHS ?

 

the guff you  rightys post up becomes more absurd by the hour 😟

So you think Glaxo SmithKline has no input into or influence on government healthcare? How cute.

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Puts internet away.

Some hours later takes to the internet again and trawls through six pages of this thread.

Slaps head, says 'Oh dear god', and opens another bottle of lockdown rosé.

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This highway will be reopened shortly when the debris has been cleared away.🚑

Thanks for waiting👍🚦

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