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16 minutes ago, Bill said:

stop making up stuff

it is not scary, just businesses ensuring that they are not held accountable for publishing lies...dangerous lies at that

try checking the rules that the Pinkun has in that regard

what is scary is that there are people like you out there all to willing to peddle such lies and misrepresentation

I'm very confused Bill, what have I made up? 

I have to say, I've found some of your posts a bit strange recently, are you coping ok with lockdown? 

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56 minutes ago, Bill said:

odd how Barbie crank knows so much about my posts when he has supposedly blocked me 🤣

or that he won't say who he was before...

so did he suddenly stumble across this forum, then read up on previous postings by others to know their stance on previous matters

or maybe he is just another coincidence one who just happens to use the same phraseology as hand crank, and the same misrepresentation of other's posts

however some might wonder if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....

This comment should be used to section you under the mental health act. I mean it.

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8 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

So you must be delighted that your friend Donald Trump has policies to bring US jobs back onshore?

Another lie.

He has an audience stupid enough to believe him when he claims that, as

" Moreover, the Reshoring Initiative data show fewer than 30,000 jobs that companies say they will relocate to the United States because of Mr. Trump’s tariffs on imported steel, aluminum, solar panels, washing machines and a variety of Chinese goods. Researchers at A. T. Kearney said last month that Mr. Trump’s trade policies, including tariffs, had pushed factory activity not to the United States but to low-cost Asian countries other than China, like Vietnam.

 

ps any chance you can post something that IS NOT a lie ?

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4 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I'm very confused Bill, what have I made up?

it would be far easier to state what you haven't made

but then, you rightys aren't too good at sticking to the truth.....whatever name you post under :classic_rolleyes:

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Just now, Bill said:

it would be far easier to state what you haven't made

but then, you rightys aren't too good at sticking to the truth.....whatever name you post under :classic_rolleyes:

So basically you have paranoia because you seem to think that 6 or 7 posters are all the same person.

Bit worried about you to be honest old fella, you got relatives etc keeping in touch during lockdown? 

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4 hours ago, Surfer said:

As a sovereign nation, with a government, parliament and budget, we could pass a Emergency Powers Act at any time and force manufacturers to do just that - on a fixed cost plus basis. However we haven’t as the government thinks it can manage as is. 
 

Over in the US the President has not used it either - apart from forcing meat processing plants to continue operations despite massive infection rates for their workers - but that is part of another broader story of deregulation and offshoring and profits only for the bosses. 

I'm surprised, though I really shouldn't be, to find that lefties always look to forcing people and businesses to do things. Following the methods of Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot never worked out well in the past and it won't go so well today either. One of the winners of this pandemic has been our supermarket businesses who have handled our food distribution brilliantly since the early days of panic buying of a fearful population. If you have a major problem, the free market will solve it for you. Short of PPE? get private business onto it. Need a new hospital in a hurry, get private contractors in. You don't have to pass any law to coerce people, just put the business out to tender and the private sector will act of their own free will.

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A free market working within common rules sounds like a great idea. That is why we don’t elect far right or far left governments to screw that up and either implement the tyranny of union bosses like Scargill or his opposite the crony capitalists like Sugar, Branson or Dyson. 

Insider trading, tax avoidance, short selling, non-competitive bids, all tools to transfer wealth form me and you into their pockets. 

So yes, totally up for a free market RTB. Let’s rejoin the EU, as Germany especially have implemented that economic set of rules pretty well.

Edited by Surfer

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blimey, old hand crank is getting desperate to get a bite

any update on the Germans bombing Britain after 1943 ?

or perhaps you were getting confused with the 24 hour clock :classic_laugh:

 

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Just now, Surfer said:

A free market working within common rules sounds like a great idea. That is why we don’t elect far right or far left governments to screw that up and either implement the tyranny of union bosses like Scargill or the opposite of capitalists like Sugar, Branson or Dyson. 

do enlighten us on that

as we have to suppose that unions are like those regimes and don't have elections

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12 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Can't say I've paid attention, he's always been a fruitcake, but perhaps the world needs to think of a different way to deal with eccentrics and oddballs which isn't basically suppressing them entirely. Nick Griffin going on Question Time to show the world what a nutter he is was actually damaging to the BNP, for example.

Perhaps a massive flashing light saying "this person is know to spread disinformation" and an algorithm which doesn't give them too much exposure. 

Its the equivalent of banning somebody from the pub for talking rubbish instead of just ripping the p*ss out of them. 

And David Icke has been ridiculed for years but a hell of a lot of the stuff that he reported about peados was spot on, he was writing about Jimmy Saville for years and the mainstream media never touched that issue. 

Johnny Rotten called out Savile back in the 70´s...but he didn´t predict New Zealand would be obliterated in 1997

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7 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

So basically you have paranoia because you seem to think that 6 or 7 posters are all the same person.

Bit worried about you to be honest old fella, you got relatives etc keeping in touch during lockdown? 

err no, that is just you lying again to knock that down rather than what I have said

any chance of a post without you lying ?

 

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3 hours ago, kick it off said:

BSc and postgrad (Merit). Next...

So how did you end up as a lowly supply teacher in Nottingham?

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6 minutes ago, Bill said:

do enlighten us on that

as we have to suppose that unions are like those regimes and don't have elections

I’m winding RTB up Bill, but to be fair old Arthur didn’t have a very positive reputation for many years as the miners caused winter blackout by picketing coal fired power plants. So you know what I mean, they were bloody minded to say the least and gave Maggi Thatcher her excuse to attack the Unions in general. Hand in hand with Ronnie Reagan doing the same in the US.

Edited by Surfer

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1 minute ago, Rock The Boat said:

So how did you end up as a lowly supply teacher in Nottingham?

You need a postgrad certificate to be a teacher, so I'm assuming that was very much intentional.  

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5 minutes ago, Bill said:

err no, that is just you lying again to knock that down rather than what I have said

any chance of a post without you lying ?

What have I lied about Bill? 

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3 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Germany did have their first confirmed human-to-human transmission a month before us. 

They have of course blown us out of the water when it comes to testing, but its not really as simple as saying that our lockdown started 10 days after theirs (or whatever it was) because the virus had taken hold earlier there. 

On 5th March the UK had 115 confirmed cases in total and Germany had announced 109 new cases in 24 hours on that same day. Just as an example.

Yes that may be partially due to more testing, but the point still stands that the point of lockdown is to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed by everybody catching it at the same time, or 'flatten the curve', so you'd try and avoid a crazy peak in cases. 

You would have expected Germany's lockdown to start earlier than ours.

We also have the benefit of watching what happens now that Germany is beginning to lift lockdown. Their data can be trusted and we can ascertain whether it would be a good idea to follow suit or not, so there are some benefits to not mirroring their lockdown to the day.

Why do you think the German data can be trusted? Have their results been independently audited? When you think about the scandals surrounding their car industries, I would definitely not take their word for granted.

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16 minutes ago, T said:

Sorry VW but it like banging head against a brick wall !  This is really important because all the time people deny they will not learn the lessons so I will try again and try to make it simpler. 
 

 You clearly haven’t read it otherwise You would not argue. and that is partly understandable to some extent if you are not following German news and don’t speak German but it is also on the BBC world and BBC Europe sites. There is not one report.

we know that it started in China. We know that Germany has a lot more interaction than UK with China because of German manufacturing  export economy basis  so therefore it has more exposure. We know some of the earliest outbreaks in Europe   were in Germany traced back to China.  

 

we know that ski resorts was the major reported cause of spread  of the disease across Europe based on tracing. We know that Germans go skiing to Austria and Italy. a lot more than UK. not least because if you care to look at a map they are next door.  Therdore we know that Germany had greater exposure to the major source of spread and this is backed up by tracing  

Therefore we know Germany had a lot more exposure to the source and to the major cause of spread. It is not opinion. These are all facts backed up by contact tracing as are the earlier reported outbreaks in Germany.
 

You don’t have any evidence to refute these facts.im afraid so time to move on from deflect and denial. We know the UK has performed poorly and there is no escaping it and therefore the UK needs to learn rather than deflect and deny. Clapping is simply not good enough. The UK needs to accept and learn for the sake of those dying and the front line workers. 

Not denying anything, you may well be right, all I asked is if you have evidence or is this opinion.

There are a huge number of variables that effect  the way an epidemic progresses, as you will know I hope, to come to an evidence based conclusion they all have to be properly tested and analysed. That’s not been done, it will be one day no doubt, but at the moment you are expressing an opinion, based on some but not all of the evidence. New evidence is emerging all the time, we may find the virus was actively spreading through populations much earlier than first thought, indications from France today are suggesting this, much much more will be discovered over time, maybe things that will contradict some of our current understanding, it’s a novel virus.

 

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3 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

So how did you end up as a lowly supply teacher in Nottingham?

Supply? Never done supply as a qualified teacher - did a bit before I did my PGCE to make sure I was choosing the right path.

Currently in an outstanding school elsewhere in the midlands (moved last summer) and just got a promoted post (whole school responsibility - middle leadership). Last year was in an outstanding school in Nottinghamshire.

Not sure where the supply bit came from?

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2 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Why do you think the German data can be trusted? Have their results been independently audited? When you think about the scandals surrounding their car industries, I would definitely not take their word for granted.

Since when has a multi national company been any determinant on government healthcare

is BP's oil spillage any means to gauge the NHS ?

 

the guff you  rightys post up becomes more absurd by the hour 😟

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12 minutes ago, kick it off said:

Supply? Never done supply as a qualified teacher - did a bit before I did my PGCE to make sure I was choosing the right path.

Currently in an outstanding school elsewhere in the midlands (moved last summer) and just got a promoted post (whole school responsibility - middle leadership). Last year was in an outstanding school in Nottinghamshire.

Not sure where the supply bit came from?

Good luck KIO. Teaching is a vocation. I know I couldn't do it.

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44 minutes ago, Bill said:

he has not been 'shut up' as he is free to peddle his lies on his own website, and by other means

but there is legal accountability to those publishing such dangerous stuff

and so those responsible for publishing.... youtube, facebook etc have taken steps to avoid that liability

also it doesn't do their corporate image any good to have it associated with such offensive stuff - hence 'my little fascist' and the other ragbag of rightwing nut jobs being removed

just as you are free to walk about the UK carrying a **** flag - but you are not being 'erased' if MCdonalds, pubs and others refuse you entry with that flag

it's their choice

Are you saying that youtube, facebook, etc. are publishers?

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42 minutes ago, Bill said:

Another lie.

He has an audience stupid enough to believe him when he claims that, as

" Moreover, the Reshoring Initiative data show fewer than 30,000 jobs that companies say they will relocate to the United States because of Mr. Trump’s tariffs on imported steel, aluminum, solar panels, washing machines and a variety of Chinese goods. Researchers at A. T. Kearney said last month that Mr. Trump’s trade policies, including tariffs, had pushed factory activity not to the United States but to low-cost Asian countries other than China, like Vietnam.

 

ps any chance you can post something that IS NOT a lie ?

What is this reshoring initiative?

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19 minutes ago, Bill said:

Since when has a multi national company been any determinant on government healthcare

is BP's oil spillage any means to gauge the NHS ?

 

the guff you  rightys post up becomes more absurd by the hour 😟

So you think Glaxo SmithKline has no input into or influence on government healthcare? How cute.

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Puts internet away.

Some hours later takes to the internet again and trawls through six pages of this thread.

Slaps head, says 'Oh dear god', and opens another bottle of lockdown rosé.

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This highway will be reopened shortly when the debris has been cleared away.🚑

Thanks for waiting👍🚦

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12 hours ago, T said:

It is not enough to test. You need to be tracing. German has been doing extensive tracing since February. I know as colleagues were tested traced and isolated back in February from China and Skiing. Germany should have been a lot worse affected than the UK because it was closer connected to hotspots. It wasn’t  because of test trace and isolate. The UK has ramped up testing but still hasn’t got extensive tracing in place. Accordingly UK is a couple of months behind Germany so it could be a while before the UK can safely lift restrictions. 

I think we will definitely be lifting restrictions soon T. The lockdown is beginning to crumble, in my opinion surely it is preferable to make it a Government led plan rather than see it fall apart anyway.

I'm not sure we need this extensive tracing regime in place, certainly the experts in Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, Denmark and Holland (at least) are not demanding it. Restrictions either being lifted, or already have been, in all those countries and no large scale tracing regime in place.

I guess time will obviously tell, but I struggle to believe they are all wrong to do this.

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10 hours ago, Van wink said:

Not denying anything, you may well be right, all I asked is if you have evidence or is this opinion.

There are a huge number of variables that effect  the way an epidemic progresses, as you will know I hope, to come to an evidence based conclusion they all have to be properly tested and analysed. That’s not been done, it will be one day no doubt, but at the moment you are expressing an opinion, based on some but not all of the evidence. New evidence is emerging all the time, we may find the virus was actively spreading through populations much earlier than first thought, indications from France today are suggesting this, much much more will be discovered over time, maybe things that will contradict some of our current understanding, it’s a novel virus.

 

Sorry VW I do accept it is complicated and we are still learning all the time but I presented a series of facts and you have responded with conjecture to try and desperately defend U.K. performance. 
 

They traced the hotspot outbreak in Italy back to Munich. There were hotspots in the Tirol Austria ski resorts, loads of cases in Italy which is also a popular with German tourists and France so Germany was surrounded by countries who have major outbreaks but a lot less impact in Germany.
 

They accept it helped that the first major outbreaks were among younger skiers where as in Italy the outbreaks were among the older.  German acknowledges when it gets in care homes you see real spikes in deaths but there can be little doubt that Germany has outperformed other countries.
 

Inherently they are risk adverse and like everything planned and organised where U.K. responds as it goes along and is more spontaneous which can be good and bad depending on the circumstances.  It is a stark difference I see it all the time in business which is generally just amusing rather than tragic as in this case. The outcome is generally the same but the way to get there is. different. In this case as in any emergency planning preparation it is crucial and the Germans did it better than the UK.
 

It is the first thing you are taught when emergency training so if I’m doing a risky outdoor sport I check that expert weather report and don’t ignore it just because it is an estimate as other repeatedly  argue. I have the emergency kit ready available and check it is working and I know how to use it and I have the emergency contacts programmed as in a crisis you need a pre programmed auto response. Yoo can’t plan for everything but you have a basic response in place rather than panicking. The UK failed to follow all these basic emergency planning protocols. The UK govt has a basic duty to protect its population. They have clearly failed to follow basic emergency planning protocol. A basis survival training course for Boris and his colleagues would not be a bad idea so they learn these basic Skills. 
 

And the UK is catching up on testing but still hasn’t got the tracing in place which German has had from the start. Crudely if you test you eliminate that one person but if you trace then you also eliminate the three people they infected. The UK still has a lot of catching up to do and it needs to learn basic emergency skills.

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Christ on a bike reading through the last six pages has been beyond hard work.

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“Sorry VW I do accept it is complicated and we are still learning all the time but I presented a series of facts and you have responded with conjecture to try and desperately defend U.K. performance.“
 
I have responded with questions which you have answered in your own way, which is fine, what I wanted was proper research based evidence, that is clearly not available atm or I’m sure you would have provided it, but you have done your best which is fine.
 
As an aside, please stop stating that I am trying to defend the U.K. response, I have repeatedly told you I am not, I fully recognise we made mistakes. Also I am no more anti German than you are anti U.K., so if you could cut out those jibes as well it may well make for better engagement. 
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