Corona Virus main thread

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

8 minutes ago, Bill said:

oh dear

A blatant lie was posted - I refuted that by challenging the poster to provide evidence

I would suggest having the right to challenge lies is a fundamental part of debate

Whatever next, complain that the courts are stopped from doing their work by prosecutors hauling miscreants up before the judge 😂

I bet you're a popular guy at parties 😴

In your world everyone who questions you or highlights something that you have said incorrectly is a liar.

A little bit of advice be less sanctimonious, you never know you might actually enjoy it 🤷‍♂️

Edited April 29, 2020 by Rich T The Biscuit
Spelling error

[Bill 1,788]

1 minute ago, Rock The Boat said:

I think you owe £100. We've been here before, I believe.

Curious to see you want this to continue

I wonder why ?

 

ps post up where I said these words and I will double the amount to £200

" Bill says we shouldn't wear facemasks in supermarkets, how absurd that you should even consider suggesting an alternative view (which by the way is absolutely the correct one). Wash your mouth out with soap whilst singing happy birthday little weed! "

full quote

[Bill 1,788]

3 minutes ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

I bet you're a popular guy at parties 😴

In your world everyone who questions you or highlights something that you have said incorrectly is a liar.

A little bit of advice be less sanctimonious, you never know you might actually enjoy it 🤷‍♂️

oh dear, the rightys are getting upset

now here's an even better offer - £300 to Pups if you can provide evidence where I said

Bill says we shouldn't wear facemasks in supermarkets,

 

 

ps some might wonder why it is the same rightys everytime who keep the lie going....hmmmm

 

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

Just now, Bill said:

oh dear, the rightys are getting upset

now here's an even better offer - £300 to Pups if you can provide evidence where I said

Bill says we shouldn't wear facemasks in supermarkets,

 

 

ps some might wonder why it is the same rightys everytime who keep the lie going....hmmmm

 

Eh?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

That's a very objectionable and inaccurate set of statements. It's something I would expect to hear was printed in The Daily Mail.

For many, and probably most, families moving an elderly relative into a Care Home is a very difficult decision to make, but it is the best decision they can make for the sake of the relative.

The average length of stay in a Care Home is 18 months and the majority of residents in Care Homes  have some form of dementia. As the Manager of my Mother-in Law's Care Home said "If you tried to look after her at home you'd want to kill her after 7 days. The staff here work for 8 hours and then they go home to their families, and they are paid to do it."

Yes they are the forgotten people : forgotten by this government until yesterday, when they finally got around to including Care Homes in their testing plans; forgotten when it came to enabling access to PPE supplies; forgotten when hospital patients where discharged from Hospitals already dealing with Covid patients back to Care Homes without being tested.

I am sorry if you think it is objectionable but maybe you are just being subjective. We have seen endless cases of cruelty and mistreatment in Care Homes. Your Mother in Law may be in a very good one, I hope she is. 

And I do know two people who work in Care Homes and they are on minimum wage. But they care about their clients. But they do stress that they have very little room for manouvre in terms of getting their work done.

The Care Home nearest to where I live charges at least £1000 per week. It is reputed to be very good and has excellent facilities. But that is a heck of a lot of money. A single person could hire someone to live with them for less than that.

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

I can understand why some posters would want that Bloomberg story about Cummings to be true but as written it makes no sense at all and is no help to those seeking to make use of it in the way they are. But do carry on.

[Bill 1,788]

16 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I am sorry if you think it is objectionable but maybe you are just being subjective. We have seen endless cases of cruelty and mistreatment in Care Homes. Your Mother in Law may be in a very good one, I hope she is. 

And I do know two people who work in Care Homes and they are on minimum wage. But they care about their clients. But they do stress that they have very little room for manouvre in terms of getting their work done.

The Care Home nearest to where I live charges at least £1000 per week. It is reputed to be very good and has excellent facilities. But that is a heck of a lot of money. A single person could hire someone to live with them for less than that.

 What you describe KG is not an isolated case and is yet another consequence of NHS privatisation by the back door - whereby the money is handed to private operatives to simply 'get on with it'

That means a policy of profit over care. Leading to low paid unmotivated workers being put into difficult situations. So as with Housing Benefit we are seeing billions leaked out of the public purse to pay for private squalor.

Odd how if you are a migrant worker in these places you are causing all the countries woes - yet if you are a migrant owner then well done you.

update - Rabb affirms Bill's words at today's PMQs

" Mr Raab acknowledged "challenges" in care homes which he blamed on the "decentralised" nature of the sector and the difficulty in exercising control over movements in and out of premises. "

 a fragmented and uncoordinated system that has all the in built failings of the US loony healthcare  system, whereby it is up to the owners if they take discharged patients and what treatment follows

all this voted for and accepted by the rightys because their betters have said they will send back all those naughty foreigners ..... who have the cheek to work in these places, work in supermarkets and pick the fruit

" send 'em all back " that's what us rightys want

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Bill

[Herman 9,756]

1 minute ago, PurpleCanary said:

I can understand why some posters would want that Bloomberg story about Cummings to be true but as written it makes no sense at all and is no help to those seeking to make use of it in the way they are. But do carry on.

Thanks, it's been frustrating that people would happily cling to a terribe bit of puff-piece journalism, sensible people that I still have a modicum of respect for as well. Bllomberg are normally better than that too. It may even turn out to be true but the way it has been written, and pounced upon, is frankly embarrasing.

[Barbe bleu 823]

49 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Now you've gone and made me read the blocked posts! Something about multiple logins and liars

[Aggy 755]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

Advisors advise and ministers decide. That still holds true today. I haven't seen a single member of Sage threaten to resign over the way the government is listening to advice, which they would do if they were unhappy.

How do they resign? It’s an invite-only group, the membership of which changes depending on what the emergency is that they’re discussing.

[Essjayess 307]

Alright, it has of course been far to long for this to have finally gotten a start, but so..26,097 deaths reported in UK  from hospitals, care homes and the community.

73,400 testings capacity.

71% of care homes  have had no reported cases of Covid-19. The way Raab is talking of trying to avoid a second wave of Covid cases sounds like  there will be very little amount of early or small easing of lockdown restrictions.

[Barbe bleu 823]

17 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I can understand why some posters would want that Bloomberg story about Cummings to be true but as written it makes no sense at all and is no help to those seeking to make use of it in the way they are. But do carry on.

I think that everyone should call the whole cummings-committee thing a no score draw and move on

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I don't think anyone can deny either that whatever is true about the Cummins involvement, and I don't deny that PM's need advisers, the bizarre situation we live in at the moment is being made even more more bizarre by the antics of the Goverment. I know the PM was in dire straits with the virus but to not attend today's briefing, to send non elected advisers to meetings, to obfuscate the stats by including tests that were incorrectly carried out as part of the total and to reveal how many pieces of PPE were ordered not delivered to the front line smacks of cover up.

Tomorrow is the last day of April and no doubt Hancock will say we have the capacity for 100,000 tests. But we all know that it is not possible in a day the way it is being handled. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Asked whether care home testing could have begun sooner, Prof Yvonne Doyle says the "scale and speed" of the epidemic has been seen "really in the last couple of weeks".

She adds that care homes are a "complex sector to get to," including many different providers.

What a load of tosh. Every Care Home has to be licensed by local councils. Their every detail is available.

And the virus really took off on 7 April which is over 3 weeks ago and the rise was predictable.

I'm sorry but these briefings are becoming a joke.

[Mark .Y. 352]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

so NO evidence of me stating what you claimed

merely that you have once again twisted someone's words so as to try and refute your fabrication - not what they said

well at least I can thank you for clarifying my words about you being a liar

 

Look, I'm no "righty", "lefty" or whatever but even if the word "supermarket" was not included in your original post, your meaning and intent was crystal clear.........and the advice seems to have changed to say that masks can be useful in stopping the spread of the virus.

Why can you not just be a big enough of a man to accept that........and hand your £100 over, it is a good cause, after all.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

2 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

Look, I'm no "righty", "lefty" or whatever but even if the word "supermarket" was not included in your original post, your meaning and intent was crystal clear.........and the advice seems to have changed to say that masks can be useful in stopping the spread of the virus.

Why can you not just be a big enough of a man to accept that........and hand your £100 over, it is a good cause, after all.

Marko is right Billo, that's exactly what you have been claiming for the last few days. I thought the same as Marko about the word supermarket,  but I reckon the sentiment was there a dozen times..at least, in the last few days. It's been a hobby horse of yours ' masks this , masks that'

 

[TIL 1010 4,738]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

poor old plod

if I lied about you I would expect a response

is your response then akin to 'starting an argument' ?

Your lack of self awareness is stunning as you did put up a lie about me on a thread some weeks back and when challenged about it got no reply. ' half naked teenagers ' ring any bells with you ?

[Aggy 755]

3 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Aggy, I can only go on the Bloomberg report and that says Cummings was asking SAGE why the government should wait until next week to impose a lockdown when Johnson had already imposed a lockdown! Granted it was in the form of a vague plea rather than the kind of detailed lockdown other countries instituted but it was a lockdown of a kind.

It didn't matter whether SAGE gave its expert approval because the political decision had been taken. And all the way through this, for good or ill, it has been obvious that every decision has been political at bottom. It is inevitable, and I am not suggesting this government has got everything wrong because of that.

My issue is with the government possibly having used supposedly independent advice as support for its actions when that advice might not have been independent. 

The government hadn’t imposed a lockdown on the 16th. They had asked people to stay at home etc. He hadn’t made it formal and there was no legislation banning people from leaving their own homes except in state prescribed circumstances.

The difference between asking people to stay at home and legislating to force them to do so is humongous. Think of the ethical questions about a government imposing a law banning people who have committed no crime from leaving their home.

Draft legislation was presented to Parliament in the week after the 16th. I’m sure SAGE advice would have helped legislation pass through a house which would have been (and was - plenty of politicians said so) extremely hesitant to legislate.  

Did the government apply pressure on SAGE on the 18th to back its ideas in order to help get legislation through? Did it apply pressure two days after an informal request for people to stay at home to help justify to the public the government’s decision to legislate?

We don’t know. But I don’t agree with your position that the government definitely wouldn’t possibly have applied such pressure because Boris had made an informal request for people to stay at home two days before.

[Badger 2,405]

2 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

How can a scientist recommend a lockdown and all the problems that entails if there is so little evidence?

1. They could have used the experiences of other countries where they had big outbreaks - e.g. China and Italy

2. Could be wrong on this one, but my understanding was that a lockdown was part of the pre-planning when dealing with a global pandemic, which was part of Govt's risk assessment.

[Van wink 2,994]

38 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Now you've gone and made me read the blocked posts! Something about multiple logins and liars

Dont waste you're life, the exchange earlier will hopefully help you appreciate what you are dealing with, but you already know that😉

[ricardo 7,385]

2 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Dont waste you're life, the exchange earlier will hopefully help you appreciate what you are dealing with, but you already know that😉

Your ability to switch personas at will is indeed a wonder to behold👍

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

Advisors advise and ministers decide.

Agreed but that is not really the point - the issue is whether the govt "followed" the advice or tried to steer it.

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

Your ability to switch personas at will is indeed a wonder to behold👍

He's also me apparently 🤣

[sonyc 5,511]

I watch people deliberately winding other people up... it's like watching a game being played. Not one I want to be involved with.

As soon as there is sign of anger or annoyance in posts I submit at a stage I will courteously offer an apology (whether I feel in the wrong or not) and move on. It doesn't matter who is wrong or right. Being civil and just showing care for fellow posters is important. Well it is to me anyway.

[T 190]

OK so now UK is capturing care home deaths iike Germany so more comparable basis. Bottom line is UK has 26k tested deaths and Germany has 6k tested deaths and Germany is testing more than UK so capturing more deaths than UK.  The likes of Italy and Spain aren't capturing care home deaths in their figures though so does still suggest UK tracking other major coutries in Europe but that there are lessons to be learnt from Germany. I know some people hate being compared to Germany for whatever personal issues they have but surely lives are more important and the UK should be learning lessons from other countries who have performed better and don't have significant excess deaths. . 

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

The Care Home nearest to where I live charges at least £1000 per week. It is reputed to be very good and has excellent facilities. But that is a heck of a lot of money. A single person could hire someone to live with them for less than that.

Yes, but the state doesn't pay for it, unless someone has less than £16,000 (or around there) of assets, including their homes. The NHS will only pay for the medical treatment not the care element, which is most of the cost.

[ricardo 7,385]

9 minutes ago, Badger said:

Agreed but that is not really the point - the issue is whether the govt "followed" the advice or tried to steer it.

Well the thrust of the Guardians article was that they actually tried to frustrate it.

[Van wink 2,994]

17 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I watch people deliberately winding other people up... it's like watching a game being played. Not one I want to be involved with.

As soon as there is sign of anger or annoyance in posts I submit at a stage I will courteously offer an apology (whether I feel in the wrong or not) and move on. It doesn't matter who is wrong or right. Being civil and just showing care for fellow posters is important. Well it is to me anyway.

Have a look at the other thread and the early days of this one, it was a good discussion. Then ask yourself what changed.

[ricardo 7,385]

indeed.

Edited April 29, 2020 by ricardo

[Crafty Canary 495]

Why do people engage with Bill? He is a wind-up merchant and promotes this by adopting a persona in which:

1. He is always right and all knowing.

2. Anyone who contradicts him is a liar.

3. If more than one person contradicts him they are the same person using multiple user names.

4. when events prove unequivocally that he is wrong he disappears as was the case with Brexit.

I have blocked him and have no intention of wasting my time with him in future. 🙂